Ultra Fine Stones.

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ErinMT
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Ultra Fine Stones.

Postby ErinMT » Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:00 am

I have been looking at adding these to my sharpmaker since I first heard of them. For a while I was looking at a lansky system but the portability of my 204 just beats it hands down. But I want that real scary bragging edge. And no matterhow long and careful I work with my 204 the white stones only give a kind of grabby shaving edge. I spent all day trying to get my Endura vg-10 PE sharp. Unfortunatly the guy I had sharpen it didn't really do a lot of hardsteel EDC type knives and he put some kind of 35% angle on it. So I spent all day trying to get i down to 30% and then finish with 40%. And it still isn't as sharp as I want it to be.



But these ultra fine stones have really intriged me. I would really like some feedback from those that have them. And if you could point in the direction as to where o get them I would appriciate it. I checked NGKs and all they had were the diamond rods. Which I need to get anyway. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

antichristina
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Postby antichristina » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:46 am

you may not want a ULTRA FINE edge on a EDC knife. It breaks down faster than the reg fine. but it is a nice edge to put on a knife that doesn't get beat up with cardboard, plactic, paper.

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HoB
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Postby HoB » Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:38 am

Actually, the higher the polish the higher the edge retention. You can compare it to a comb: You can bend the tines of a comb easily, but if you had the same length made of solid material, you would be hard pressed to bend it, because the adjacent material supports itself. The higher you hone the edge the more you go from long tooths to one solid line on the edge. Of course the "solid edge" will still be toothy under large enough magnification, but the teeth are much smaller. Stropping is a different thing though.

As to the UF stones (which I got from NGK, maybe you just call them up and ask them?). I find that the corners feel about the same as the corners on the regular whites, but the flats are substantially finer, resulting in a highly polished edge. However, there must be something wrong with your technique on the sharpmaker, if you can get only a grabby shaving edge with the regular whites. The edge that I get with the regular whites is absolutely nothing to sneeze at and that after only 20 strokes. Try and go back to the grays at 20 degrees with light strokes (20 corners, 20 flats) and then back to the whites at 20 degrees and see if something improves. How often do you clean the rods. I find I have to clean the rods or change the corner/side after about 30 strokes per corner/side.

Good luck!

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Jurphaas
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Postby Jurphaas » Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:00 am

Hi ErinMT - I back up Hoß on everything he writes. He is right on target. I do a lot of sharpening demo's with the 204 system and when your technique is OK, you'll archieve the finest edge you'll ever want.
Clean the stones with a green 3M Scotch brite pad and a household scrubbing powder often.
I truly believe that the ordinary user has no need for diamond stones or even ultra fine stones. All you really need is packed with the 204!
Now if you like to change the factory bevel, there is a lot of material to be removed. This might take some time and effort.

Clipits work!

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Milu
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Postby Milu » Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:21 am

A little practice, keeping the stones clean make a difference. Also the blade geometry of some knives can make it easier. I find I can get Microtech and victorinox scarysharp very quickly, some others take a bit longer. I finish with a couple of passes on the back of a writing pad or a piece of leather.

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ErinMT
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Postby ErinMT » Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:30 pm

Thanks for the info guys. I'll admit I doubt my technique is right. When i draw the blade across the fla area there is little steel accualy on the flat part. Most of it is on the corner. I tried going slow and keeping everything in lane and straight and I still get little steel on the flat area compaired to the jet black line on the corners.

Also I have never been able to find what pressure to use. I have tried very light(letting the weight of the knife push itself down) and very hard. Nothing that would put undo strees on the 204. But enough power to ensure that it is cutting the steel. But it I have yet to find the right power level.

Also I clean the stones after every use. I never thought to clean them more often. I will sometimes wipe them down with a wet cloth and it seems to get a lot fo the steel out but I never thought of fully cleaning them. I will have to try that.

Thank you for your advice. I'll give it another go. And if all else fails I'll send it into W&R when they are up and running.

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HoB
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Postby HoB » Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:47 pm

Try cleaning them by rubbing them hard with the rough side of a scotch brite pad and some Ajax (bought a can just for the sharpmaker...now that is dedication <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>), just as Jurphaas said. Don't worry about having them touch evenly on the flats, that is not nearly as important, as having them blade strictly vertical and the part of the edge that touches the rods (no matter how it is curved) parallel to the table. Lastly, mark your edge with a black permanent marker and see whether or not you are actually honing on the edge itself (meaning the black color being removed)or somewhere else on the edge bevel.

Edited for spelling....Jurphaas wrong <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

Edited by - HoB on 8/3/2004 3:50:40 PM

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dialex
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Postby dialex » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:02 am

Just like my forespeakers said, the 204 does the job fine with its regular stuff. I have no trouble in getting a shaving edge on my knives (I even tried it with some junky Chinese POS and get the results OK, but it really didn't worth the effort).
I used to clean the stones with scouring powder, but I discovered that a pencil eraser does the job even better <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

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Blades
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Postby Blades » Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:33 pm

I like to clean my stones with a SOS or Brillo pad. It works very well.
I picked up a UF flat stone, and it does help if you are trying to get that scary, hair-popping razor edge. Of course with the big flat stone I can only sharpen PE blades, but I like my serrations sharpened with my medium stones.
If you haven't read or downloaded Joe Talmadge "Sharpening FAQ's", you need to. I think they are still posted somewhere at Bladeforums. Great information, Joe knows how to sharpen a knife.



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