kinetic openings
kinetic openings
Ok, question for Bram or others, so what exactly is the theory behind kinetic openings and how would they actually work in a fight? Also, would you expect the compression lock to work equally well for lefties?
Pete,
The kinetic opening feature allows you to open the knife within the flow of combat utilizing gross motor skills. Strike as you open. If an attack starts at a lower level of force, you can utilize the Gunting in the closed position. If the incident escalates, you can deploy the blade at anytime by reaching out and touching the BG.
Kinetic opening allows to to get steel on the bad guy faster than any other folder I've tested. Initially the ramp, followed immediately by the edge if necessary.
Hope this helps,
Steve
The kinetic opening feature allows you to open the knife within the flow of combat utilizing gross motor skills. Strike as you open. If an attack starts at a lower level of force, you can utilize the Gunting in the closed position. If the incident escalates, you can deploy the blade at anytime by reaching out and touching the BG.
Kinetic opening allows to to get steel on the bad guy faster than any other folder I've tested. Initially the ramp, followed immediately by the edge if necessary.
Hope this helps,
Steve
The Gunting can be opened by being pulled or snapped briskly across anything that engages the ramp. If the surface is narrow the blade will open as it passes. If it is a wide surface it will open as the point digs in to the surface and you continue to pull it.
In my FMA style the ramp is used to strike into the muscles of the attacking limb for an initial strike/distraction and then snapped open as it passes. If you are hitting an attacking arm, you would hit the inside of the forearm with the ramp, pull thru and cut back into the on the return.
If you are working off a kicking attack, you strike into the attacking leg and as you pull thru, the tip will dig into the leg and already be cutting in one motion.
I am experimenting with working the kinetic openings from various angles and positions. A simple guideline is that if you can hit with the ramp from your position, you can do a kinetic opening.
In my FMA style the ramp is used to strike into the muscles of the attacking limb for an initial strike/distraction and then snapped open as it passes. If you are hitting an attacking arm, you would hit the inside of the forearm with the ramp, pull thru and cut back into the on the return.
If you are working off a kicking attack, you strike into the attacking leg and as you pull thru, the tip will dig into the leg and already be cutting in one motion.
I am experimenting with working the kinetic openings from various angles and positions. A simple guideline is that if you can hit with the ramp from your position, you can do a kinetic opening.
I just got a live Gunting to go along with my trainer. I tried a opening against my own left arm. I did not notice till later I had cut my fleece jacket but did not cut my arm. I thought the mass of my arm was not enough to get cut. Is the speed of the opening important to pass the object or the angle of the strike?
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Frank Olesen
- Member
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: spokane wa.
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Frank Olesen
- Member
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: spokane wa.
Student01..I'm glad you are OK..close call...gee I never cut my arm..I guess it is a matter of WHERE you started to pull it across your arm..OR around your arm..
BUT you learned a good thing..try practicing with a DRONE..do it slow till you SEE and feel the way the blade opens...
once you got it speed it up..
NOOO not with the live blade...
DO NOT PLAY with the live blade..
Yes.. I do...yes my students do..
Yes I have since day one..I bet I have more kinetic time than anyone...like years worth of time...
BUT I now only play with the DRONE..its taught me that some things I thought I could do with the blade would cut me upon second motion or continual motion..so I know what I can Kin-Op on an opponent and "open n cut" in one motion...
I think you need to review the SPYDERCO Presents Video...
Welcome to the MBC gunting group..and wear that Fleece jacket proudly..you belong to a select group!!!!! I've definately clipped finger tips...
Mary cut several shirt sleeves till she got the hang of it...
Edited by - BRAM on 4/16/2001 10:50:41 PM
BUT you learned a good thing..try practicing with a DRONE..do it slow till you SEE and feel the way the blade opens...
once you got it speed it up..
NOOO not with the live blade...
DO NOT PLAY with the live blade..
Yes.. I do...yes my students do..
Yes I have since day one..I bet I have more kinetic time than anyone...like years worth of time...
BUT I now only play with the DRONE..its taught me that some things I thought I could do with the blade would cut me upon second motion or continual motion..so I know what I can Kin-Op on an opponent and "open n cut" in one motion...
I think you need to review the SPYDERCO Presents Video...
Welcome to the MBC gunting group..and wear that Fleece jacket proudly..you belong to a select group!!!!! I've definately clipped finger tips...
Mary cut several shirt sleeves till she got the hang of it...
Edited by - BRAM on 4/16/2001 10:50:41 PM
Pete,
Well, I wasn't going to admit this on forums but I am taking Bram's class in Golden and he will find out then. More importantly my story might also help others avoid the same mistake.
A kinetic opening done correctly could do significant damage to your opponent. I know this because I did it incorrectly and did significant damage to myself. I had gotten in the terrible habit of kinetically opening my Gunting drone of my leg. I did not yet have a live model because I was waiting for a serrated version and had forgotten the true blade that the drone represents. This bad habit became ugly when I was checking out a live Gunting at the Spyderco Factory Outlet. I had forgotten that we play like we practice and lightly opened the factory sharp Gunting on my leg.
The cut that resulted was 1.5" long on the top of my thigh. The ER doctor who stitched it said that it went through all the fat and cut the very top of the tissue that divides the fat and muscle. Fortunately, all the bleeding was capillary and not too hard to control. ( I should add here that everyone at the SFO was great and helpful.)
It has been almost a month now and my leg is still recovering. I hope to start running again in other couple weeks. I purchased the Gunting that did it (#386) and have also a acquired a nickname at the SFO.
This is of course, a self correcting behavior and I will not even with a trainer open on my leg again. Although this is one of my worst, I have throughout my life cut myself and so do not freak out. But for most people this cut would have sent them into shock and ended the fight. I hate to think how much damage could be done to an opponent with a forcefully kinetic opening to a more important area of the body.
I should also add that although that I would purchase a larger Gunting (the Guro) if produced I now have Great respect for that little blade on the Gunting. It is more than enough for any practical purpose.
- Glenn
Well, I wasn't going to admit this on forums but I am taking Bram's class in Golden and he will find out then. More importantly my story might also help others avoid the same mistake.
A kinetic opening done correctly could do significant damage to your opponent. I know this because I did it incorrectly and did significant damage to myself. I had gotten in the terrible habit of kinetically opening my Gunting drone of my leg. I did not yet have a live model because I was waiting for a serrated version and had forgotten the true blade that the drone represents. This bad habit became ugly when I was checking out a live Gunting at the Spyderco Factory Outlet. I had forgotten that we play like we practice and lightly opened the factory sharp Gunting on my leg.
The cut that resulted was 1.5" long on the top of my thigh. The ER doctor who stitched it said that it went through all the fat and cut the very top of the tissue that divides the fat and muscle. Fortunately, all the bleeding was capillary and not too hard to control. ( I should add here that everyone at the SFO was great and helpful.)
It has been almost a month now and my leg is still recovering. I hope to start running again in other couple weeks. I purchased the Gunting that did it (#386) and have also a acquired a nickname at the SFO.
This is of course, a self correcting behavior and I will not even with a trainer open on my leg again. Although this is one of my worst, I have throughout my life cut myself and so do not freak out. But for most people this cut would have sent them into shock and ended the fight. I hate to think how much damage could be done to an opponent with a forcefully kinetic opening to a more important area of the body.
I should also add that although that I would purchase a larger Gunting (the Guro) if produced I now have Great respect for that little blade on the Gunting. It is more than enough for any practical purpose.
- Glenn
You guys, you are not supposed to cut yourself!!! DUH!!! I hope you guys heal fast. LOL.
Anyhoo....Bram has told people again and again NOT to open the Gunting on your own leg or you will seriously cut yourself....what do people immediately do?....they cut open their own leg anyway. Go figure?
The descriptions of the kinetic openings posted above are pretty acurate. You can either use the ramp to smack & crush, rake & scrape, pinch & grab, or to kinetically open. Cool huh? Bram & I & a couple of other students got together when the first prototypes were made. And we practiced on each other how many ways to kinetically open your Gunting without harming yourself. My personal favorite is catching the ramp inside someone's nostril....then yank! OUCH!! It works pretty well.
Jody
Keep your spirit up & your blades sharp!
Anyhoo....Bram has told people again and again NOT to open the Gunting on your own leg or you will seriously cut yourself....what do people immediately do?....they cut open their own leg anyway. Go figure?
The descriptions of the kinetic openings posted above are pretty acurate. You can either use the ramp to smack & crush, rake & scrape, pinch & grab, or to kinetically open. Cool huh? Bram & I & a couple of other students got together when the first prototypes were made. And we practiced on each other how many ways to kinetically open your Gunting without harming yourself. My personal favorite is catching the ramp inside someone's nostril....then yank! OUCH!! It works pretty well.
Jody
Keep your spirit up & your blades sharp!
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Brian_Turner
- Member
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
I wonder WHO'S nose she opened it off of..hmmm let me think?????
Who could Jody have done a Kinetic nose opening on??????
Well lets ask the next question..How long do you want to live??
If the answer is a bit longer you will NEVER open the kife on someone's nose again....ROFL
Really..if the ramp can touch it..the GUNTING can open..
Hmm brian,...wait a bit ( don't hold your breath..its longer than that!)and other kinetic knives in the SPYDIE line up will appear...
Who could Jody have done a Kinetic nose opening on??????
Well lets ask the next question..How long do you want to live??
If the answer is a bit longer you will NEVER open the kife on someone's nose again....ROFL
Really..if the ramp can touch it..the GUNTING can open..
Hmm brian,...wait a bit ( don't hold your breath..its longer than that!)and other kinetic knives in the SPYDIE line up will appear...
Thanks a lot for all the replies, i have a much better sense of what it entails. Now i really need to get one. Except i can't get just the trainer but everyone will want to play with it, so i can't get just the live blade either. Oh well. What is provided at the seminars? i know you provide trainers, but are they the folding ones or the metal one peice ones and do we get to keep them? Just trying to figure out how i'm going to afford one of each, plus either videos or a seminar. I think some of my other knives that i want are going to have to go on hold for a little while. Thanks again everyone.
Pete
Pete
Pete,
Get the drone first. It's a great defensive tool on its own as well. For extended practice, you will want the aluminum trainers from Edges2 or our own PROTECTOR earlier in this thread. He can make you some really neat Gunting trainers. You training partner will thank you.
At the seminars, Bram usually has the Edges2 trainers for sale if they haven't been included in the cost already. Money well spent.
Steve
Get the drone first. It's a great defensive tool on its own as well. For extended practice, you will want the aluminum trainers from Edges2 or our own PROTECTOR earlier in this thread. He can make you some really neat Gunting trainers. You training partner will thank you.
At the seminars, Bram usually has the Edges2 trainers for sale if they haven't been included in the cost already. Money well spent.
Steve
hmmmm Jody..I'm sure I'm gonna trust a woman who LOVES to hurt people including her own instructor..unhuh,,yup
JUST JOKING!!!!
I'm using Martins computer in Eugene,,stop over before Spokane..
Israel is May 22-June 1
Kinetic openings happen very very fast..if you can touch someone..the GUNTING can Kinetically open..The Kin-Op system will be the start of a new way..
As Professor Presas used to say..."upon contact! You do"...and sure enough UPON contact the Gunting does....
hmmm Glen..LEG? what leg...???????
JUST JOKING!!!!
I'm using Martins computer in Eugene,,stop over before Spokane..
Israel is May 22-June 1
Kinetic openings happen very very fast..if you can touch someone..the GUNTING can Kinetically open..The Kin-Op system will be the start of a new way..
As Professor Presas used to say..."upon contact! You do"...and sure enough UPON contact the Gunting does....
hmmm Glen..LEG? what leg...???????
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>i know you provide trainers, but are they the folding ones or the metal one peice ones and do we get to keep them? <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2> The seminar that was at Spyderco this past weekend included the drone, to keep. The aluminum trainers were also on hand to use there.