Hi People,
I've been making a mental note to ask this question fro the past two days but ****! It keeps getting lost somewhere...
When i cut paper with my plaine edged Spydie Card, a few slivers of paper get stuck to the blade edge and i have to wipe them off to physically remove them. They wont go if i blow onthem too.
A] Why is this?
B] Is it good or Bad?
Thanks in Advance
Have a great Day,
Kaizer.
A door half open is a door half closed. But a knife half open is a knife fully closed.
Paper sticks to knife edge... Why??
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samosaurus
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Ted,
Dunno if it is static... What happens is that there are small slivers (best i can describe it) which linger on the blade edge. It's as though there are small "teeth" on the plain edge where a small portion of the paper sliver is getting wedged.
Dont know if it really is static.
Thanks.
Samo,
Eh the knife is really sharp. have used it only twice since i got it. and the second time around this is happening.
Have a great day,
Kaizer.
A door half open is a door half closed. But a knife half open is a knife fully closed.
Dunno if it is static... What happens is that there are small slivers (best i can describe it) which linger on the blade edge. It's as though there are small "teeth" on the plain edge where a small portion of the paper sliver is getting wedged.
Dont know if it really is static.
Thanks.
Samo,
Eh the knife is really sharp. have used it only twice since i got it. and the second time around this is happening.
Have a great day,
Kaizer.
A door half open is a door half closed. But a knife half open is a knife fully closed.
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death-bringah
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- Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
It is not static. Large chunks of metal serve as an electron sink. There is no static build up on them except if you are working with enormous charges and voltages.
Is this a factory edge? I noticed that the factory edge is very "toothy" and if you look at the paper cut under a magnifying lens and compare it to the cut of a highly polished and stropped edge, you can see that the cut of the factory edge is much "rougher". There are tiny slivers of paper fiber hanging out of the cut edges, as if it was tearing instead of cutting (only that you see the tear only under a magnifying lens). I assume that your paper slivers actually get stuck in the micro sized teeth of the plain edge.
Edited by - HoB on 5/26/2004 2:15:52 PM
Is this a factory edge? I noticed that the factory edge is very "toothy" and if you look at the paper cut under a magnifying lens and compare it to the cut of a highly polished and stropped edge, you can see that the cut of the factory edge is much "rougher". There are tiny slivers of paper fiber hanging out of the cut edges, as if it was tearing instead of cutting (only that you see the tear only under a magnifying lens). I assume that your paper slivers actually get stuck in the micro sized teeth of the plain edge.
Edited by - HoB on 5/26/2004 2:15:52 PM
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java
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- Location: Rosamond - Tropical Paradise without the tropics.....(or the paradise)
<b>Kaizer</b>,
The paper is only doing its job. Steel, as we know, is merely a bunch of rocks harvested from mother earths immense bounty and melded together through the alchemist's sorcery, the wizardry of science, or the miracle of modern industry. As we all remember from the childhood game, <b>paper covers rock</b>. If you want to properly cut paper, use the scissors! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Static? Yeah I’ll buy that. Actually, the separation of materials leads to what is known as electrostatic or triboelectric charging. It involves the transfer of electrons between materials. Virtually all materials, including dust and water in the air can be triboelectrically charged. The level of charge is affected by material type, speed of contact and separation, humidity, and several other factors. Paper is considered an insulator but it also belongs to a more positive triboelectric family than steel, which is conductive and more negative on the scale. When items are brought into contact and then separated, an electrostatic charge is generated. Your knife is basically sliding through (rapidly contacting and separating) the paper and electrons released by this action build a negative surface charge on the steel. The slivers of paper are held by this charge, kind of like static cling when you dry your clothes. The charge is temporary and will cause no harm unless you elect to discharge the field charge on the leads of an ESDS (electrostatic discharge sensitive) device. The Spydercard will live to torment other papers and ESDS devices. The ESDS device will not have a good day.
<b>HoB</b>,
Electrostatic charges do not mean high voltage. Charges do build up on a conductor such as steel and the charge will also not be uniform in nature. An electrostatic charge of less than 3,000 volts is generally not felt. But merely picking up a common plastic bag from a bench, can generate from 1,200 to 20,000 volts
Indeed the microgroves on a knife edge will show fibers and small slivers of paper. On the micro scale any knife edge shows rough spots, striations, and occlusions. These arise from wear, grain nucleation sites, the sharpening method used, etc. You should see this stuff under an electron-microscope.
<font color=Red><b>Death Before Decaf!</font></b>
The paper is only doing its job. Steel, as we know, is merely a bunch of rocks harvested from mother earths immense bounty and melded together through the alchemist's sorcery, the wizardry of science, or the miracle of modern industry. As we all remember from the childhood game, <b>paper covers rock</b>. If you want to properly cut paper, use the scissors! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Static? Yeah I’ll buy that. Actually, the separation of materials leads to what is known as electrostatic or triboelectric charging. It involves the transfer of electrons between materials. Virtually all materials, including dust and water in the air can be triboelectrically charged. The level of charge is affected by material type, speed of contact and separation, humidity, and several other factors. Paper is considered an insulator but it also belongs to a more positive triboelectric family than steel, which is conductive and more negative on the scale. When items are brought into contact and then separated, an electrostatic charge is generated. Your knife is basically sliding through (rapidly contacting and separating) the paper and electrons released by this action build a negative surface charge on the steel. The slivers of paper are held by this charge, kind of like static cling when you dry your clothes. The charge is temporary and will cause no harm unless you elect to discharge the field charge on the leads of an ESDS (electrostatic discharge sensitive) device. The Spydercard will live to torment other papers and ESDS devices. The ESDS device will not have a good day.
<b>HoB</b>,
Electrostatic charges do not mean high voltage. Charges do build up on a conductor such as steel and the charge will also not be uniform in nature. An electrostatic charge of less than 3,000 volts is generally not felt. But merely picking up a common plastic bag from a bench, can generate from 1,200 to 20,000 volts
Indeed the microgroves on a knife edge will show fibers and small slivers of paper. On the micro scale any knife edge shows rough spots, striations, and occlusions. These arise from wear, grain nucleation sites, the sharpening method used, etc. You should see this stuff under an electron-microscope.
<font color=Red><b>Death Before Decaf!</font></b>
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Sword and Shield
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- Location: USA
"The paper is only doing its job. Steel, as we know, is merely a bunch of rocks harvested from mother earths immense bounty and melded together through the alchemist's sorcery, the wizardry of science, or the miracle of modern industry. As we all remember from the childhood game, paper covers rock. If you want to properly cut paper, use the scissors! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> "
Ha! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
I'll vote both static, and getting small amounts trapped in the microserrations, which subsequently act like Velcro.
The Man's Prayer- I am a man. But I can change. If I have to. I guess...
Ha! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
I'll vote both static, and getting small amounts trapped in the microserrations, which subsequently act like Velcro.
The Man's Prayer- I am a man. But I can change. If I have to. I guess...
Ahhh, I think it's some form of static as well...the body human is full of electroactivity. The "Card" is all metal right?
If not that, then there is a school in NY you could check out kaizer. Ask for Charles XAVIER. LOL!
Aloha bro!
God will put you over...if you let Him! John 14: 13,14...try it, it WORKS!
If not that, then there is a school in NY you could check out kaizer. Ask for Charles XAVIER. LOL!
Aloha bro!
God will put you over...if you let Him! John 14: 13,14...try it, it WORKS!
I know it is kind of off topic, but java's respeonse really sparked my interest. From a previous post I assume you are working in the semi-conductor industry, so I guess you would know. I am genuinely curious.
By the definition of a conductor the charge distribution on the surface of a conductor should change as the field strength is constantant over the surface and the shape of the surface changes. Like on any edge the field density should momentarily very high, however the charges should redistribute very quickly to yield the same field strength anywhere on the surface as the field generates the force between the charges. It is of course possible to charge a conductor, which is the basis of a capacitance or the spheres of a van-der-Graaf generator, however the mass of the conductor must either be very small or the total charge be very large in order generate a significant field as the charge can redistribute through out the conductor (I see that my remark about the high voltage was stupid) and really the charge density and not the total charge counts for the generation of an electrostatic field. I don't think that you can generate a sufficient number of charges by sliding a knife through paper to generate a measurable surface charge (and thus a field gradient) on a chunk of metal like the blade of a knife. Its like rubbing a piece of PVC with some wool or felt and then "wiping" off the PVC with the blade of a knife. The knife is not electrostatically charged afterwards (just tried it), and I would think you generate a lot more charges on a large piece of PVC and a large piece of wool than between the paper edge and the knife edge.
Actually, continuing to think about this, voltage does play a role in charging up a conductor, as the total charge on a capacitance is dependend on the voltage applied. On an insulator that doesn't count of course as you can have locally a very high charge density and thus a very high field, without having much of a total charge.
What am I missing?
You know, your "paper covers rock" is by far my favorite explanation ;-)
Edited by - HoB on 5/27/2004 12:10:13 AM
By the definition of a conductor the charge distribution on the surface of a conductor should change as the field strength is constantant over the surface and the shape of the surface changes. Like on any edge the field density should momentarily very high, however the charges should redistribute very quickly to yield the same field strength anywhere on the surface as the field generates the force between the charges. It is of course possible to charge a conductor, which is the basis of a capacitance or the spheres of a van-der-Graaf generator, however the mass of the conductor must either be very small or the total charge be very large in order generate a significant field as the charge can redistribute through out the conductor (I see that my remark about the high voltage was stupid) and really the charge density and not the total charge counts for the generation of an electrostatic field. I don't think that you can generate a sufficient number of charges by sliding a knife through paper to generate a measurable surface charge (and thus a field gradient) on a chunk of metal like the blade of a knife. Its like rubbing a piece of PVC with some wool or felt and then "wiping" off the PVC with the blade of a knife. The knife is not electrostatically charged afterwards (just tried it), and I would think you generate a lot more charges on a large piece of PVC and a large piece of wool than between the paper edge and the knife edge.
Actually, continuing to think about this, voltage does play a role in charging up a conductor, as the total charge on a capacitance is dependend on the voltage applied. On an insulator that doesn't count of course as you can have locally a very high charge density and thus a very high field, without having much of a total charge.
What am I missing?
You know, your "paper covers rock" is by far my favorite explanation ;-)
Edited by - HoB on 5/27/2004 12:10:13 AM
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java
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<b>HoB</b>,
Good thinking. I need to back up here and correct what I said about steel. In electrical charging, steel is a conductor. In electrostatic or triboelectric charging, steel, however, is considered a fairly neutral material. With that in mind remember as a young sprout how could rub a balloon against your hair and then it would stick to a neutral object like walls or ceilings? Try rubbing some plastic wrap (highly negative in the triboelectric series) on your hair then hold it to the knife blade. If you shave PVC, also highly negative, with your knife some of the PVC shavings will probably stick as well. Paper is more positive in the series and it is also closer to steel in neutrality. Shaving paper with my Rescue does not yield large slivers on the blade but closer examination shows small fibers clinging to the back of the blade. I don’t know all of Kaizers variables here – relative humidity, type of paper, etc – but it would appear there is some type of contact adhesion based on static or tribocharging.
The mechanics of electrostatic charging are not fully understood but the damage done to semiconductors is well known. ESDS protection is a major concern in my industry and ESDS prevention is designed into such common items as the paints and wall coverings used in Fab cleanrooms to the dissipative floor grates we use for laminar airflow to deionizers to ensure the sub-micron particles in the air that get past our ULPA filters are not charged. Humidity is also controlled at a constant 70%.
Capacitance is based on electrostatic field charging from an applied voltage but actually varies based on the area of the plates, the distance between them and the dielectric material used to separate them. Increasing the charge will not change the capacitance and will eventually destroy the capacitor. Capacitive reactance will vary based on frequency applied to the capacitor. Varying the reactance of a "tank" circuit by using a variable capacitor or inductor is how a basic tuning circuit works and how impedance loads are matched in dynamic circuits.
Yikes! This is seriously OTOT (Overly Technical Off Topic)! Paper covers rock works for me I’m hanging with it.
<font color=Red><b>Death Before Decaf!</font></b>
Good thinking. I need to back up here and correct what I said about steel. In electrical charging, steel is a conductor. In electrostatic or triboelectric charging, steel, however, is considered a fairly neutral material. With that in mind remember as a young sprout how could rub a balloon against your hair and then it would stick to a neutral object like walls or ceilings? Try rubbing some plastic wrap (highly negative in the triboelectric series) on your hair then hold it to the knife blade. If you shave PVC, also highly negative, with your knife some of the PVC shavings will probably stick as well. Paper is more positive in the series and it is also closer to steel in neutrality. Shaving paper with my Rescue does not yield large slivers on the blade but closer examination shows small fibers clinging to the back of the blade. I don’t know all of Kaizers variables here – relative humidity, type of paper, etc – but it would appear there is some type of contact adhesion based on static or tribocharging.
The mechanics of electrostatic charging are not fully understood but the damage done to semiconductors is well known. ESDS protection is a major concern in my industry and ESDS prevention is designed into such common items as the paints and wall coverings used in Fab cleanrooms to the dissipative floor grates we use for laminar airflow to deionizers to ensure the sub-micron particles in the air that get past our ULPA filters are not charged. Humidity is also controlled at a constant 70%.
Capacitance is based on electrostatic field charging from an applied voltage but actually varies based on the area of the plates, the distance between them and the dielectric material used to separate them. Increasing the charge will not change the capacitance and will eventually destroy the capacitor. Capacitive reactance will vary based on frequency applied to the capacitor. Varying the reactance of a "tank" circuit by using a variable capacitor or inductor is how a basic tuning circuit works and how impedance loads are matched in dynamic circuits.
Yikes! This is seriously OTOT (Overly Technical Off Topic)! Paper covers rock works for me I’m hanging with it.
<font color=Red><b>Death Before Decaf!</font></b>
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java
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HoB,
You made me drag things out of this rusty old brain from Air Force basic electronics school. Stayed busy working electronic countermeasures, navigational aides, flight control, communications, fire control radar, terrain following radar, and various flight navigation systems - never had to discuss discrete basic components till today. Suprised I remembered any of that theory stuff. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. My brain hurts time for more caffeine. Stay safe!
<font color=Red><b>Death Before Decaf!</font></b>
You made me drag things out of this rusty old brain from Air Force basic electronics school. Stayed busy working electronic countermeasures, navigational aides, flight control, communications, fire control radar, terrain following radar, and various flight navigation systems - never had to discuss discrete basic components till today. Suprised I remembered any of that theory stuff. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. My brain hurts time for more caffeine. Stay safe!
<font color=Red><b>Death Before Decaf!</font></b>
My SpyderCard does the exact same thing, from when I got it to now, its still got a 30 deg edge and is hair popping sharp.
When I slice paper and it sticks, if I pull gentally at the thin slivers sticking to it just abit, they will get pulled back if I let go.
Thus I can only think that while the paper is been sliced by the blade, friction is been caused from the paer rubbing up the sides and causing a very small amount of static.
Cheers
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
When I slice paper and it sticks, if I pull gentally at the thin slivers sticking to it just abit, they will get pulled back if I let go.
Thus I can only think that while the paper is been sliced by the blade, friction is been caused from the paer rubbing up the sides and causing a very small amount of static.
Cheers
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
