ASP Advice

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Little claw
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ASP Advice

Postby Little claw » Wed May 19, 2004 12:00 am

Telescopic batons are abouut to be outlawed in the UK so I thought I'd pick up a couple for the 'archives'.



ASP seem to be the brand leader, but does that mean they are the best?



Also there seem to be so many options I'm confused as to what sort to buy. So I have a few questions:



-What are the benefits and drawbacks of the various materials/finishes?

-Are ASP the best in their price range? Who else makes good batons?



Also:

-How durable are they/what sort of lifecycle do they have?

-Who do you buy from (good international service preffered as I only have about 3 weeks)? I need to place an order in the next coupole of days.

-How does the construction/shape/weight and materials affect the application compared to a regular stick (say an escrima stick)?

-What length is preferred?



I was thinking of getting a steel one for training (extra weight) and an aluminium one for 'application' (lighter carry and faster in the hand)



Thanks



Dom

Qship
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Postby Qship » Wed May 19, 2004 11:32 am

I bought a couple of cheap batons, and one genuine steel ASP. The cheap batons tend not to stay locked open. Someone borrowed one of the cheap batons, and was practicing opening it on the way to the target. The crimp gave away, and the end piece came free with enough force to hurt someone badly. Fortunately, no one was in the way.

I prefer 21" batons, but that depends on stature. I would go with the ASP.

Qship

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Mancer
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Postby Mancer » Sat May 22, 2004 11:25 pm

Well I think there are 2 major camps in the expandable baton industry, ASP and Casco.
Both I hear are very well made and take one hellava beating and just keep going.

Im quite fond of the fact that with a extra accessory, you can join your ASP baton to a ASP Triad Flashlight which is more or less in the line of MagLites.

Im also fond of the Hindi baton cap for the Casco's though.

Cheers

MaNcEr

It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum

eric
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Postby eric » Sun May 23, 2004 1:24 am

ASP and Casco are both good products, with ASP being of better quality. However, I prefer a fully loaded Monadnock Autolock Baton (Supergrip, power safety tip, and hindi cap). That's just my take on it. Mike (Janich), what is your opinion on the reliability of the autolocks mechanism as opposed to traditional friction lock. Also, you opinion on the durability ASP Airweights.

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Postby stanley_white » Sun May 23, 2004 7:39 am

"-What are the benefits and drawbacks of the various materials/finishes?"

I prefer the stainless ASP coating. It is big and shines when deployed and serves as a visual deterrent moreso then the black model.

If by just deploying my stainless 21" baton I can scare the bad guy away without having to actually strike him all the better.

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Mancer
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Postby Mancer » Sun May 23, 2004 5:40 pm

Well in all honesty Ive never seen a Monadnock baton, now that you have meantioned it, it is off to go do some research for me.

Ive always wanted either a 21" or 24" Casco/ASP baton.

Will mabey look into one sometime soon.

Cheers

MaNcEr

It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum

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Mancer
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Postby Mancer » Sat May 29, 2004 11:12 am

Ive got a Casco 24" black expandable baton, Ive never been lucky enough to handle a ASP or Monadnock baton, but I must say these things are **** solid.
Id hate to be the one to take a shot from one of these babys.

Its been suggested to me the way to decide on the length of baton that will best suit you is for you to measure from your arm pit to your fingertips, take this measurement and choos the baton that is closest to this.

I measure in at about 25" from armpit to fingers, I find the 24" very comfy to handle and swing around, all I really need now is a Hindi baton cap.

Cheers

MaNcEr

It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum

Little claw
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Postby Little claw » Sat May 29, 2004 11:51 am

Thanks MaNcEr,

In kung fu we are sometimes told what the 'ideal' size for a given weapon is. There is usually a good reason for this based on the dimensions of the body and the movements you are expected to be able to do - of course you need to be adaptable, but if you learn with a weapon the wrong size (usually too big) you may never learn certain moves properly.

I'm quite fortunate that many weapons fit me properly as purchased - I'm average - but its difficult to choose with the breadth of choice offered by ASP, Monadnock, etc.

The flute, for instance should ideally extend slightly further than your elbow when held along your forearm, which , for me, is very close to 16", so I have selected a 16" electroless, which would most likely be the one I would carry.

The baton I wasn't sure of, we use 26" ones, but I figured that concealability would be so compromised that it wouln't be worth getting the 26" ASP as a civilian, so I went for the 21" Federal.

My armpit to fingertip measurement is 24". If I measure to the base of the fingers (as many of the kungfu specs do - acounting for the differential in reach when you grip something) I find that I am exactly 21", so I think I made the right choice either way.

Do you know what the reasoning is for this measurement?

Dom

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Mancer
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Postby Mancer » Sat May 29, 2004 4:51 pm

No unfortunetly not, my old buddy/supplier Pertinax told me this, and I must admit when handeling a 26" it seems just abit much, like Im a tad out of control with it.
The 24" is a complete different story though, Its easier to keep the baton under control while swinging it under force.

I suppose its all to do with dimentions of things.

I suppose then again there are advantages to all the sizes, the bigger it is the further your reach, but this becomes a hastle when the attack moves in close, then your lengthy baton becomes no good until your attacker is forced back in range.

The 24" when collapsed is quite a big sod, carring it around though.

Cheers

MaNcEr

It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum

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argyll
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Postby argyll » Sun May 30, 2004 11:36 am

Little Claw,

If you play the flute and are into impact weapons you might want to check out these: www.stickman-escrima.com/Products/Flutes.htm

The perfect "non-weapon" for the UK.

Best regards,

Argyll

Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit -- Ovid (He who is not prepared today will be less so tomorrow)

zeus
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Postby zeus » Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:34 pm

The Monadnock has a better release system than ASP. You just push a button- I'd go for it. I have several ASP batons and "whacking" them to get them to collapse can be difficult.



Edited by - zeus on 6/2/2004 12:36:26 PM

K Williams
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Postby K Williams » Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:09 pm

Monadnock makes friction lock batons like ASP also. The model you are describing is called the Auto-Lock.

thorin hammer
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Postby thorin hammer » Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:10 pm

This question is off topic but I just had to ask...
Little Claw, what type of Kung Fu do you study and how long have you been studying? I have studied Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu for 2.5 years. What you say about weapon length is true. From rope darts to spears, it is important to have the correct size/length.

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SURLY
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Postby SURLY » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:50 pm

Monadnock RULES ! you dont have to smash it on the ground to close it (concrete gives the ends spurs). It also comes with a power tip to transfer force to the striking area .
Average price 99.up/US. But well worth it
Also has grip material options.

Be @ Peace

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DAYWALKER
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Postby DAYWALKER » Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:37 am

Ahhh, I have handled the cheapies and the ASP and Monandocks...

I prefer either one. Hate them cheapies though! But for measurement, i go 2in. over my clenched fist, and below my elbow when my arm is bent, fist facing ceiling.

I LOVE THESE BATONS...The telescopic thing is cool. Around the house however, i have a few well placed Rattan Escrima sticks..."just in case". Has anyone tried them aluminum sticks by Century?

I wanna get the 31"(?)ASP for a two hander...it'd be fun to do my old Kendo drills with one! LOL!

God will put you over...if you let Him! John 14: 13,14...try it, it WORKS!

Edited by - DAYWALKER on 6/6/2004 4:30:15 AM

Little claw
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Postby Little claw » Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:32 pm

Thorin Hammer:

I do shaolin fists, which is basically a five animals style. However the essence, strategy and some of the conditioning come from five ancestors.

Some of our lohan techniques look a little like the choy li fut that I've seen, and I'm fascinated by the breadth of weapons in CLF.

The only weapons I've trained are staff, beggar stick, single and double short stick, butterfly knives and broad sword - mostly quite practical stuff but I'd love to learn some of the more exotic stuff.

Do you guys do a ring dagger form? I'd love to learn about those.

thorin hammer
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Postby thorin hammer » Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:05 pm

My Sifu (means teacher for those who don't know) wants to teach someone wind and fire wheels. I am not sure that we are talking about the same weapon (look at list of weapon on first site link). But, that is a ways off. I am having plenty of fun (and pain) learning the seven-link chain whip. I haven't studied as many weapons as you have but I have used: staff, tai chi sword (straight sword), chain whip, escrima sticks, cane, and some knife defenses. I can't really say that I am proficient in any of these weapons: that will take a lot of time. My teacher’s favorite weapon is the butterfly swords.

The really great thing about Chinese martial arts is that all the basic principals are the same no matter the style. Anyway, I will post a couple of links for you to look at:

http://goldeneaglemac.com/ Very good comprehensive site on Choy Lay Fut. List nearly all the weapons that can be learned in this system.
http://www.choylayfut-ireland.com/mainindex.html A good site out of Ireland.
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/a ... rticle=356 An article on Choy Lay Fut weapons.

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Little claw
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Postby Little claw » Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:00 am

Thanks for the links.

The ring daggers I was referring to are the: "14. Double Daggers (Seung Pei Sau) ‘o™¶Žñ" as found on the first site listed, not the wind and fire ones.

They are a short(ish) weapon consisting of a double edged blade with plenty of belly (think cold steel peacekeeper, and a hilt with a ring at the pommel, rather like many karambits. The ring aids retention, can be used as a brass knuckle and can swing the knife into an extended (if unstable) thrusting grip, they are usually used in pairs.

I find that once you learn the basic principles of a type of weapon, you can quickly pick up similar ones. Quite a large percentage of staff techniques can be applied with an escrima stick (or even a kubotan), but then the escrima stick has yet more techniques specific to itself. I'm quite a fan of some of the old chinese books which just show a form, but in great detail. The application and hidden moves will come from my existing experience, and may be coloured by the principles that I've been taught.

Its really satisfying to realise this change in myself, and yet its just the tip of the iceberg!

I like the butterfly knives as well - although I've spent a lot less time on them than the others - they're a formidable weapon system, although a bit less practical in this day and age.

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Mancer
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Postby Mancer » Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:52 pm

Just got my hands on a 6 D Cell Maglite, man you could use this thing to play baseball with.
Its a big sod, but boy is it a great flashlight.
Now only problem is finding space in my car for my 24" Casco, my Maglite and my nightstick.

Cheers

MaNcEr

It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum


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