leafjumper v delica

[wrdwrght]

What’s the main difference? They seem pretty similar to me.

If the metrics of my Rock Jumper (waiting on the K390 Leaf Jumber) are any indication, the Jumper handle is a much more satisfying fit for my largish hand than the Delica.

And the Jumper’s overall build is not Delica-te. We should understand that Sal had a reason for this more robust build.

Moreover, the Jumper series continues Sal’s explicit exploration of maximizing an edge’s length while offering a grip that is not only safe but preserves mechanical advantage. The Delica does not offer a maximized edge.

Another significant difference. Spyderco prints its own cash when it makes more Delicas. Not so the Jumpers.

So, without over-thinking, here are some differences I recognize. I also recognize that neither model is better than the other because of these differences.

[p_atrick]

Definitely give those Lynch NW handles a try. Casey did a remarkable job with this design, and it takes the Delica to a whole 'nuther level. Also effectively adds a working choil to the design.

Do you happen to have a pic?

This the version I bought (others have some color). Really enjoy these scales. Their newsletter will let you know when they are available in a monthly drop.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94941#p1719706

[weeping minora]

As has been already pointed out, one is slicy, concealable and yet still practically capable (Delica), whilst the other is robust and much more "hard wearing" (LeafJumper).

I recently picked up a VG-10 LeafJumper and it has become my main work driver over the past week or two; giving the K390 Delica a break. With its wide Leaf blade, the LJ still has plenty of "slice" to its cutting performance. Undoubtedly, without reprofile, it is no match versus the Delica, however, I believe it will suit the needs of the many that find the Delica too "delicate".

FWIW, the handles on both are comfortable and I find the weight to be negligible, IMO/IME. The Delica is a clip-off, drop in pocket carry and the LJ is a clip to pocket carry. The LJ is just too wide to consider dropped into my pocket.

As a strange side note, I never quite clicked when handling the RockJumper, yet contrarily, I've found the LJ to be an instantaneous hit. Perhaps I fell out of favor with the wharnie blade shape, but it feels like something more than that, at least to my hands and head. That feels weird to exclaim, but it is what it is, to me.

Also, whatever Seki is doing with VG-10 right now is stellar. Anyone who deems VG-10 as "garbage" should give these newer produced models in VG-10 another go.. Something going on there that upped the ante noticeably, IME (recently for me, amongst the LJ and Stretch 2 XL, 2022 production runs).

[Halfneck]

Anyone able to post some side-by-side pics for comparison?

[benben]

The serrated K390 Leafjumper is an absolute must buy, sure buy for me! I’ve given / gifted away every Delica I’ve ever owned, I think it’s been 5, maybe 6? I don’t even own one now. And I actually do like the Delica.

[Cl1ff]

Anyone able to post some side-by-side pics for comparison?

Check out the thread I linked on the first page of this one.
There are lots of comparisons, including with the Delica.

[sal]

The "Jumpers" were/are an all new design for me to be able to test the "handle forward" concept. This concept was/is to solve the problem of an "edge to the handle", back-lock folder, and still keep the muscle memory of closing the knife by dropping the kick on the forefinger. We have millions of lock-backs out there and many, many of our customers have learned to close their knife using that method. If that makes sense?

sal

[Wartstein]

...We have millions of lock-backs out there and many, many of our customers have learned to close their knife using that method. If that makes sense?

sal

Imo it has always been making sense.
And I think now that Youtube and the like are things it makes even more so, since the method you mention is aimost exclusively used there it seems and thus many people rather new to knives learn it as "their" method.

Which is not a bad thing at all, the "drop ricasso on the finger" way of closing a backlock is a perfect one, even if I personally pretty much never use it. Probably because I came to folders without having internet or anyone I could watch how to close a backlock and so I developed my own ways.

I still love the handle forward concept for other reasons than convenient closing and hope for many more designs utilizing it!!

[twinboysdad]

I’m with Warstein, these two models are not alike to me. Most importantly IN POCKET, the Delica is unobtrusive and almost at that “forget it is there” level. Leafjumper is at best more like Enders or Manix2 LW. Not a pocket hog but nowhere near the subtly of the D4. I can’t predict the future for the Leafjumper but the D4 will be around as long as Spyderco makes knives

[mongo1958]

Definitely give those Lynch NW handles a try. Casey did a remarkable job with this design, and it takes the Delica to a whole 'nuther level. Also effectively adds a working choil to the design.

Do you happen to have a pic?

Not worth the cost IMHO ($220)

[wrdwrght]

Definitely give those Lynch NW handles a try. Casey did a remarkable job with this design, and it takes the Delica to a whole 'nuther level. Also effectively adds a working choil to the design.

Do you happen to have a pic?

Not worth the cost IMHO ($220)

Not really a Delica anymore.

[olywa]

I found it a reasonable value since I had a ZDP-189 Delica and only needed to buy the handle kit and put it together myself.

Even though it may not be a Delica anymore, I find it to be a great edc with outstanding ergos. I have and enjoy several stock Delicas and Salts. This mod just takes a great blade design and puts a different spin on it. No regrets on my part.

[Bemo]

I purchased the handle kit to put on a Wharnie. I thought the price very reasonable considering what I've paid for micarta handle slabs.$220 is for the complete knife btw. Handle kit only is $100 less.

[weeping minora]

Anyone able to post some side-by-side pics for comparison?

I'll oblige.

To preface (and FWIW, I find this to be the least transferrable amount of actual reliable info to give, as hands are all so different and pictures are so unjust in so many ways), my hand sizing is medium/large, depending on manufacturer and specific glove type. I have actually fit all the way down into labelled small gloves, as well, just to muddy my point of reference even further. My hands are definitely "slim", rather than "meaty", however I would not describe them as "dainty". Please, make sure to properly checkout with all of this hand-sizing info by including a pallet of salt to your shopping cart at your nearest Price Club/Costco during your next shopping trip, for best results.


Side-x-Side, matching the start of actual edge at ricasso:



Edge-to-Edge focused:



Handle-to-Handle focused, matching the start of guard/actual gripable handle:



LJ in-hand, gripped:



LJ in-hand, ungripped:



Delica in-hand, gripped:



Delica in-hand, ungripped:




*Now, before further investigation, I urge you to take a minute and look at the similarity between the two handles!!

Can you spot it?!

Please look at that first "hump" of the Delica's "mountainous" handle landscape, we'll call it. If that first "hump", bothers you personally on the Delica 4, that exact same "hump" is placed in the exact same location within the handle of the LeafJumper, however it is sharper and has more of a "peak", having less refinement of contouring, within the LeafJumper. Personally, because of that "hump peak sharpness" I find it bothers me more on the LeafJumper, than it does, or ever has, on the Delica. The "apex" of that "hump" on both handles falls right in line in the middle of my middle finger and is a noticeable, however slight hotspot from time-to-time when handling both of the knives (in and out of use). I have considered taking some high grit sandpaper to smooth that "peak" out a bit on the LeafJumper, blending the contouring lines in to suit the rest of the comfiness of the handle.


Footprint overlap, closed position to show height difference:



Handle overlap, open position to show gripable handle height difference:



Blade profile overlap, open position *I was actually surprised to see that they have such a similar blade profile at the edge when starting from the ricasso, albeit, the Delica length being shorter:



Blade-stock profile comparison, closed position *this also illustrates that lack of contoured refinement in the LJ when comparing the handle "humps", being sharper in the LJ:



Handle-spine profile comparison, closed position to show side-x-side handle thickness difference *they are much more similar in this dimension than I would have thought:




Up next are pictures illustrating the kick-to-finger closing methods, providing depth to sal's comment on familiarity of closing their back-locks:

LJ:



Delica:




Just a useful grip that I find suits my hand size, per size of the handles (like a "cavity opening" grip, when field dressing, or skinning an animal), comfortable and practical with both knives:

LJ:



Delica:




*This last round of pictures illustrates my only real downside to having a folding knife with the edge that extends all the way back to the guard. Honestly, this is just a grip preference that I have come to use based on my usage of the Delica 4 and other "choiled" knives, for so many years now and is such a muscle memory engrained grip, that I've caught myself in this grip a couple times already whilst handling and using the LeafJumper. If you, too, use what I can only call this "modified pinch grip", please, keep that in mind when you "pinch up" on the LeafJumper, you are "pinching up" on actual edge and not a ricasso, or otherwise dull spot of the blade. I have done this a few times already when preparing for a cut, on autopilot, from using the Delica for so many years:

LJ:



Delica:




All that being said, the LeafJumper is a fantastic platform and honestly, I've come to quite appreciate the lack of thumb jimping and boye-dent. It gives it it's own character, that adds a breath of fresh feels. I don't get nervous sweats when seeing the "missing" edge length that could have been maximized within that handle, because it would honestly add dimensions otherwise to the blade that already push a limit, for me (blade height when closed would increase further for the length of the knife and most likely, the overall height itself, to retain a similar, or the same, leaf shape in profile). If maximal blade is demanded, by all means, maximize the larger variants in-development down the pipeline (Sequoia, and/or CliffJumper??)

I'm eagerly awaiting the release of the K390 variant, although, this VG-10 has been a pleasure to use, itself. Those who think the VG-10 version is a waste of their money, do not fret on the K390 iteration. This is a wonderful little knife and I'm sure will appease those who find the Delica not to their liking. I love the Delica, and so far in this honeymoon phase, I too, love the LeafJumper.

[benben]

Wow, thank you very much for that very detailed post!!

[cabfrank]

Yeah, incredible, superbly comprehensive comparison. Really excellent. We appreciate it.

[Bemo]

Excellent pictures. In particular the commonalities of the handle and the variance with the points. Honestly, it's the points on every Endela and Endura that don't work for me. I've never seen a better pictorial example.

[weeping minora]

Cheers boys .

I know this debate has been ongoing for the last ~3+ years when the RockJumper was released and I've not really seen much more than the standard side-by-side shot of the knives opened, so I thought it was about time it got a better analysis. There are many folks who are gun-shy to pull the trigger on the Jumpers, even though they express their interest in the concept, mostly due to their strong distaste for the Delica it seems (though I believe that to be more of a size preference and/or cost issue, being what they pay vs what they "get").

The biggest I find is when folks express their huge dislike for the Delica humps and yet love the (small) Jumper style handle(s). That hump is still there in the design. Perhaps the increased handle height/width throws their hand-mind connection off of that allusion? I'm not sure, but whatever it is, folks who have handled it seem to like it who hate the Delica, just the same as those who love the Delica.

sal, bringing us together in defeating jadedness, one concept at a time .

[Wartstein]

Cheers boys .

I know this debate has been ongoing for the last ~3+ years when the RockJumper was released and I've not really seen much more than the standard side-by-side shot of the knives opened, so I thought it was about time it got a better analysis. There are many folks who are gun-shy to pull the trigger on the Jumpers, even though they express their interest in the concept, mostly due to their strong distaste for the Delica it seems (though I believe that to be more of a size preference and/or cost issue, being what they pay vs what they "get").

The biggest I find is when folks express their huge dislike for the Delica humps and yet love the (small) Jumper style handle(s). That hump is still there in the design. Perhaps the increased handle height/width throws their hand-mind connection off of that allusion? I'm not sure, but whatever it is, folks who have handled it seem to like it who hate the Delica, just the same as those who love the Delica.

sal, bringing us together in defeating jadedness, one concept at a time .

To be clear: I personally have no issues at all with the Delica handle points - love the ergos, despite my hands are really not small, but clearly on the larger end of the spectrum

That said:

1.) I don´t think that the Delicas first handle point is LESS pronounced than the Leafjumpers? But rather a lot less?
On the Delica the handle drops down on both sides of the point, and so makes it, well, really "pointy", like a peak.
On the LJ handle the handle drops down on only ONE side of the point, making it less pointy? Or even not a "point" at all?

2.) Yes, I think handle width / height / thickness can really make a difference! If one is bothered by the "point" probably also depends on which particular part of the finger lands on that point.
Let me give you an a bit similar example:
I have two Tenacious, one in FRN, on with custom wood scales, which are just a hair thicker than the FRN scales.
Still: This makes my finger land with a different spot on the linerlock cutout, and makes the grip noticeable LESS comfortable than it is with the a bit thinner FRN handle (though OVERALL the thicker handle feels better, except for that one hotspot).

[weeping minora]

Cheers boys .

I know this debate has been ongoing for the last ~3+ years when the RockJumper was released and I've not really seen much more than the standard side-by-side shot of the knives opened, so I thought it was about time it got a better analysis. There are many folks who are gun-shy to pull the trigger on the Jumpers, even though they express their interest in the concept, mostly due to their strong distaste for the Delica it seems (though I believe that to be more of a size preference and/or cost issue, being what they pay vs what they "get").

The biggest I find is when folks express their huge dislike for the Delica humps and yet love the (small) Jumper style handle(s). That hump is still there in the design. Perhaps the increased handle height/width throws their hand-mind connection off of that allusion? I'm not sure, but whatever it is, folks who have handled it seem to like it who hate the Delica, just the same as those who love the Delica.

sal, bringing us together in defeating jadedness, one concept at a time .

To be clear: I personally have no issues at all with the Delica handle points - love the ergos, despite my hands are really not small, but clearly on the larger end of the spectrum

That said:

1.) I don´t think that the Delicas first handle point is LESS pronounced than the Leafjumpers? But rather a lot less?
On the Delica the handle drops down on both sides of the point, and so makes it, well, really "pointy", like a peak.
On the LJ handle the handle drops down on only ONE side of the point, making it less pointy? Or even not a "point" at all?

2.) Yes, I think handle width / height / thickness can really make a difference! If one is bothered by the "point" probably also depends on which particular part of the finger lands on that point.
Let me give you an a bit similar example:
I have two Tenacious, one in FRN, on with custom wood scales, which are just a hair thicker than the FRN scales.
Still: This makes my finger land with a different spot on the linerlock cutout, and makes the grip noticeable LESS comfortable than it is with the a bit thinner FRN handle (though OVERALL the thicker handle feels better, except for that one hotspot).

Reposting the picture for clarity:



See that "peak" at the end of the first section of "dip"? Look at it as more of an "apex", if that helps. It's that very small, sharp line that collides where the "dip" meets that "hill" of the rear of the LJ handle, creating the "peak", I'm speaking of. That is much more noticeable and "sharper", on the LeafJumper, than it is on the Delica. It is by no means "sharp", in the way that it will cut you, rather, it is more emphasized, or more pronounced. It shows clearly "crisper" on the LJ when right next to the D4, even in the photo. It's the only hard line within the LeafJumper's shaping, stopping the eye at that point, because it is a bit jarring, considering the natural flow to the rest of the lines. The D4 is noticeably rounded off at that "peak" (the same as are all of its "peaks"), like the ball joint of a shoulder, or hip. Being that the LJ does not round this "peak" off, it effectively acts in the same manner that the D4 does and creates that same "hot spot". The exact same shape, which I alluded to as a "hump" (literally from guard, including the dip, and to that first "point" in the grip area), is present in both handles and will grip exactly the same, irregardless of handle width, within that plane. Whether you can see it or not, it can undoubtedly be felt in hand.

Factor that in along with how deeply scalloped that contour is within the LJ handle at that "dip" (which thins out that handle thickness substantially, as shown in this picture):



This makes for the "sharp peak hump", I was referring to. To me, it is more noticeable on the LJ when gripping the knife. This may dissuade those who do not like that about the Delica, in the first place. To each their own, however the fact is, many people who loathe the Delica, love the LeafJumper, but that "hump"/"point"/"dip"/"blip"/"bump"/"obtrusion" is still there.