Chinese Budget Folders In M4: What Does The Future Hold?

[vilePossum]

Somebody mentioned a bow river in M4?!? Absolutely yes.

[Mushroom]

There are a few collaboration designs that are made in china at the moment. Bow River, SpyderThrowers, and Astute. The Astute being the only folder collaboration.

Seeing the use of an exotic steel like M4 makes me wonder it that might open the door for even more collaborations with custom makers and designers. Maybe someone didn’t want to settle for a steel like 8CR13MOV; Now they have options like S35VN and M4!

Maybe its just me because I have no dog in this fight but if it meant the chance and opportunity to collaborate with Spyderco, I would be eager to let them produce one of my knife designs in china. M4 steel would just be the cherry on top.

[electro-static]

There are a few collaboration designs that are made in china at the moment. Bow River, SpyderThrowers, and Astute. The Astute being the only folder collaboration.

Seeing the use of an exotic steel like M4 makes me wonder it that might open the door for even more collaborations with custom makers and designers. Maybe someone didn’t want to settle for a steel like 8CR13MOV; Now they have options like S35VN and M4!

Maybe its just me because I have no dog in this fight but if it meant the chance and opportunity to collaborate with Spyderco, I would be eager to let them produce one of my knife designs in china. M4 steel would just be the cherry on top.

I would buy a Bow River in CPM-M4.

[kennbr34]

That is, if you consider $133 a "budget" option. I think, with all things considered, it is. Admittedly, the $85 M4 Delica deal a month or two ago does take the wind out of my sails a bit.

Considering all the D2 options out there for under $50, that I got a Kizer Sheepdog in 10V for $89 and my 15V Manix 2 cost $160, it's kinda hard to consider an M4 Tenacious at $133 a budget option.

[Toucan]

That is, if you consider $133 a "budget" option. I think, with all things considered, it is. Admittedly, the $85 M4 Delica deal a month or two ago does take the wind out of my sails a bit.

Considering all the D2 options out there for under $50, that I got a Kizer Sheepdog in 10V for $89 and my 15V Manix 2 cost $160, it's kinda hard to consider an M4 Tenacious at $133 a budget option.

D2 can be had dirt cheap sub-$20, the 10V Sheepdog was a steal, and the 15v Manix was wild considering how rare and new 15v knives are. No disagreements there... But D2 is a 100 year old ingot steel with very different characteristics, as of now the Kizer Sheepdog deal is long gone, and there's no new 15V available unless you wanna buy from flippers.

Go on Knife Center or another big website for knives and search for M4 folders. The cheapest I've found is a ~$150 Kershaw, and its a hideous combo edge tanto. Once the new Tenacious is out, it'll be the cheapest M4 folder by about $20. M4 isn't in the spotlight because K390 and 15V are the current hotness, but its still a bonafide super steel, and it'll be available for about the cost of a regular FRN Native 5. Sure, there will be the occasional $85 M4 Delica, or $112 Rex45 Native sale, but this is an any day of the week price that will always be available.

[ABX2011]

I'm also curious about heat treat. Have their been (independent) HRC or cut test results shared for the S35VN from the China factory?

[capt.carl]

I'd be down for an Astute in any steel that's an upgrade from 8Cr13.

A Polestar or Alcyone in a premium steel would be nice too.

YES please an astute in m4!!!
That and a resilience would be perfect

[Cl1ff]

I was just having an interesting thought about the Value Spydercos.
Not all of them are made in China.
For example, the Cat and Chicago are BD1N linerlocks from Taiwan that are ~ $60-67.
Can the Taiwan Value Folders get these kind of materials too? The Cat and Chicago have always intrigued me, but are a little small for what I like. Why aren’t there more like them?
This is something I’ve now become curious about.

[PeaceInOurTime]

Absolutely interested in a Resilience in M4, might even go for the combo edge since they can't do the Resilience in full SE. I think this is the first time M4 has been offered in SE at all isn't it?

The Blade HQ exclusive M4 Dodo had a SE option. That's the only SE M4 I'm aware of, from Spyderco.

[vivi]

I'm also curious about heat treat. Have their been (independent) HRC or cut test results shared for the S35VN from the China factory?

If they're shipping these steels from the US like Sal mentioned they do for S35VN and BD1N, then I'd imagine they're heated to the same RC range as other Spydercos using these steels.

[ABX2011]

If they're shipping these steels from the US like Sal mentioned they do for S35VN and BD1N, then I'd imagine they're heated to the same RC range as other Spydercos using these steels.

The steel is from the US but I believe it's ground and hardened by the China factory. I trust Spyderco on heat treat more than any other company but would still be curious to hear of actual test results related to HRC or cut tests.
For a long time, Sal had said the China factory was only comfortable working with 8cr. Apparently they're more capable now.

[Toucan]

I was just having an interesting thought about the Value Spydercos.
Not all of them are made in China.
For example, the Cat and Chicago are BD1N linerlocks from Taiwan that are ~ $60-67.
Can the Taiwan Value Folders get these kind of materials too? The Cat and Chicago have always intrigued me, but are a little small for what I like. Why aren’t there more like them?
This is something I’ve now become curious about.

The Taiwan value folders are interesting. My wife carried a Cat in BD1 that Spyderco replaced with a BD1N version for unknown quality issues (she mailed it in for sharpening and they replaced the whole knife). A long time ago the Cat was made in 440C, and even longer ago they were not a "value folder", and were S30V. Iirc quality on the S30V version was not consistent so they decided to go the value folder route. I'm also curious what factory they use, as there is a distinction between the fancy "Taichung Taiwan" and regular "Taiwan" models. As you said, the mystery non-Taichung factory seems to only make those two models. This is all just speculation, but as the Cat has had several issues with production, I wonder if the factory has trouble with consistency and volume. The Japanese factory in Moki has had issues in the past with production and only makes a few models for Spyderco as well. If that is the issue, maybe they'll improve their capabilities in time.

[eventhorizon]

Astute.
Astute.

I said it twice because I'd buy two.

[abbazaba]

Love the Tenacious, love M4. I also vote for an Astute!

I know there is more at play than I will likely ever know, but I definitely had sticker shock for this one based on other releases like REX45 models when using the term "budget folder".

[NCJohn62]

That is, if you consider $133 a "budget" option. I think, with all things considered, it is. Admittedly, the $85 M4 Delica deal a month or two ago does take the wind out of my sails a bit.

Considering all the D2 options out there for under $50, that I got a Kizer Sheepdog in 10V for $89 and my 15V Manix 2 cost $160, it's kinda hard to consider an M4 Tenacious at $133 a budget option.

The problem with Kizer and super steel knives is I've yet to see any of them remotely heat treated well. Chinese D2 for the longest time was garbage, most of it being Cr12 or another low quality analog. However apparently that has started to change with Kubey among others using a correct AISI analog or K110 with the HT to match.

[capt.carl]

Astute.
Astute.

I said it twice because I'd buy two.

Like!
Think of all that compact cutting power with m4

Off Topic

The problem with Kizer and super steel knives is I've yet to see any of them remotely heat treated well. Chinese D2 for the longest time was garbage, most of it being Cr12 or another low quality analog. However apparently that has started to change with Kubey among others using a correct AISI analog or K110 with the HT to match.

This is true. Pretty sure i read kizers 10v was ran very soft and didn’t hold up to the performance it should have. Same with chinese m390/20cv in general among other super steels.
I have heard spydercos s35vn frome china does very well and that they worked very closely with the factory to optimize its treatment. I have no concerns about spydercos chinese steels.

[sal]

With regards to Chinese made knives;

There is one Chinese maker that I know of that just loves steel. He purchased some very expensive heat treating equipment and he does some heat treating for some of the other Chinese makers.

Blade steels have a chemistry. If a foundry makes a blade steel that is the same chemistry as another foundry's blade steel, don't they give it a different name?

Also, try to keep in in mind, when comparing, the Chinese Yuan is much lower than other currencies.

sal

[Evil D]

Absolutely interested in a Resilience in M4, might even go for the combo edge since they can't do the Resilience in full SE. I think this is the first time M4 has been offered in SE at all isn't it?

The Blade HQ exclusive M4 Dodo had a SE option. That's the only SE M4 I'm aware of, from Spyderco.

Ah yes, I thought I was forgetting something. I only secured one of those for another forum member so I didn't get to use it. I'll definitely be checking out this Tenacious.

[PaloArt]

I have to say I will start focusing more and more on Value folders from Spyderco since prices in Europe are crazy for some time. Tenacious and Resilience in S35VN, Polestar and Alcyone in CTS BD1N and Astute are knives I need to purchase this year. If Astute came in CTS BD1N I would by probably two of them. I am excited to more upcoming pieces from Value line, hopefully one day we will have some simple affordable CTS BD1N fixed blade with FFG or high saber grind for those of us who like to spend time in nature and as general utility FB blade. For now Mule would do but not available in Europe as per my knowledge.