Manix 2 cage lock question...

[jmj3esq]

I just received a brand new Manix 2 in 15v Sprint Run and love it. The only thing that I can notice that has me thinking is the plastic ball cage used in the locking mechanism. I have seen aftermarket cages made from aluminum, steel and titanium. They seem like they would be more fail safe than the plastic. I could imagine dropping the knife on the exposed cage and it breaking. I have also seen aftermarket ball bearings for the cage made from various materials like ceramic. My question is am wasting my time worrying about the plastic used on the cage and the ball bearing or are upgrades warranted on the Manix 2?

[ladybug93]

are you wasting your time...?

yes and no.

yes because it's completely unnecessary. the plastic ball cage is more than durable enough. there were some issues with the earlier clear cages breaking, but it's very uncommon for anyone to have real issues with the black plastic cage. the ball bearing switch is also unnecessary. there's nothing wrong with the steel bearing. some people say it's smoother when they've replaced it for a ceramic bearing, but when i did it, the difference was negligible. there's no need to replace either part.

no because it's fun to make a knife your own. i do like the titanium cage i have on my m390 manix and plan on putting a brass cage in my 15v manix. i like the feel of the metal and it provides slightly better grip. so, i'd say there is a slight functional benefit to changing it, but you don't need to. the reason for switching it out is almost as much a cosmetic change as it is a functional change.


if you've never done any of these mods, or if you have no prior manix experience, i would give it some time and get to know the knife the way the designers intended it. it's a really great knife. no need to worry about it at all. if you struggle to get a good purchase on the ball cage, and it doesn't get better with continued use, consider switching to a metal cage. if you really prefer the look of the metal in a specific color or material, switch it out and make the knife yours. whatever you do, just enjoy it and put it to work. :)

[TkoK83Spy]

Read through this....

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93971

[apollo]

I agree with Ladybug. The original cage is never going to fail you.
The only reason to change it would be of you want to personalize you’re knife to you’re own wishes.
The ceramic ball is a waste of resources the steel one is perfectly fine and you will not notice any difference between the 2 in the end.

Personally i only modded 2 cages both in ti so i can not speak off the alu ones.
But i do not think i will mod more of those cages in the near future.
I would say take a look for some custom scales they are way more fun and change the knife much more.
For example look at these i have done.

[RustyIron]

They seem like they would be more fail safe than the plastic.

I've never heard of the original plastic cage failing in any way,
and can't imagine using the knife in a way that it might fail.
I think yours will be ok.

[Ramonade]

The only cage is saw breaking was an aluminium cage from Flytanium.
So the plastic cage must be more than durable enough to outlast the blade

[olywa]

I have used the titanium and aluminum ball cages from Flytanium, primarily because they offer slightly better purchase for me. I'm a sucker for copper so I may try that at some point. Never felt the need to change the stock ball bearing.

[jmj3esq]

I haven't disassembled the Manix 2 yet . How challenging is the process? Also, does anyone know if Spyderco used Loc-tite on the screws?

[Coastal]

I haven't disassembled the Manix 2 yet . How challenging is the process? Also, does anyone know if Spyderco used Loc-tite on the screws?

The only difficulty in disassembly is prying the scales and liners away from the lanyard tube. BUT NOTE, for this mod you don't have to. You can simply rotate a scale and liner out of the way, exposing the cage and ball. For reassembly you'll need to mess with the arrangement of cage, ball, spacer and blade until it goes back together (there is a "best" order to do this, but I have to figure it out anew each time). If you're used to assembling mechanical objects, it won't take more than a few minutes. If Spyderco uses loctite on the Manix, it hasn't been an issue for me.

[Coastal]

I should add that I always replace the cage, ball and spring on a Manix, but this is because 1) I like a softer spring than the stock one and, 2) I feel that the Manix is such a nice knife that it deserves the upgrade. Does the upgrade make it work any better? For me it does. Is it necessary? Not at all.

[salimoneus]

I personally wouldn't use an aluminum cage, the metal is quite brittle and much more prone to failure in the event it takes some impacts or has very slight manufacturing defects.

I would also be concerned about marring the stainless ball with a material that would be as hard. Obviously copper and brass are softer, and likely the Ti as well but it could depend.

I would also be concerned about corrosion issues between a new alloy cage and the ball and the blade interface, depending on which type of metal alloy that is used for the cage. I have not seen this issue in particular discussed much. This could be the main reason why they went with plastic to begin with, as it introduces no corrosive factors whatsoever into the equation.

Personally I just keep the stock plastic, due to all the reasons previously mentioned, and the fact that there are never really issues with them. That and the fact that my tools are for go, not for show. To each his own though.

And replacing the spring is a horrible idea, you want that extra tension and deliberate effort required to disengage the lock. Unless you are using the knife strictly as a fidget toy or something silly like that.

[Coastal]

And replacing the spring is a horrible idea, you want that extra tension and deliberate effort required to disengage the lock. Unless you are using the knife strictly as a fidget toy or something silly like that.

We all have our preferences, and I think replacing the spring is a good idea.

Your comment made me chuckle, because in a different thread you prefer the fidgety, swing-open, swing-shut comp lock to the easily controllable liner lock that also creates that "extra tension and deliberate effort." In my hand, an easy-to-disengage CBBL operates about the same as a comp lock, i.e., they're both easy to disengage. That's why I replace the spring.

[zhyla]

It’s true I’ve not seen any broken black cages. But I’d be cautious about saying things like the black cages will “never” fail. But if it does fail a metal cage is an easy swap.

I had a clear one break and so I designed and had a new one made at Shapeways. I think the patent has expired recently so I may make it available at some point. The polished brass one I feels a bit smoother than the original plastic ones.

I don’t know why people swap the bearings. They’re already very smooth and the design allows for a ton of wear before the lockup suffers. But if you’re going to pull the cage out might as well swap the ball while you have it open rather than do it later.

I’ve become less enamored with the Manix 2 over the years but I do love the CBBL over all the other locks.

[olywa]

Love the CBBL, and I've always wondered why it's only used in the Manix line. I've seen many comments to that effect on the forum over the years, but I don't ever recall seeing a response from Sal or others. Doesn't mean I love the Manix any less, but I'd like to see something with a little less blade height for a slimmer pocket fit.

Edited to add that I just saw the latest thread on Locks with tons of good user perspective on the CBBL. I need to pay better attention.

[salimoneus]

And replacing the spring is a horrible idea, you want that extra tension and deliberate effort required to disengage the lock. Unless you are using the knife strictly as a fidget toy or something silly like that.

We all have our preferences, and I think replacing the spring is a good idea.

Your comment made me chuckle, because in a different thread you prefer the fidgety, swing-open, swing-shut comp lock to the easily controllable liner lock that also creates that "extra tension and deliberate effort." In my hand, an easy-to-disengage CBBL operates about the same as a comp lock, i.e., they're both easy to disengage. That's why I replace the spring.

True I much prefer the comp lock over the liner lock, but I don't fidget with knives (or any tools/weapons) so there is no "fidget factor" for me, my preference is strictly based on function and strength.

If the comp lock just happens to also be more usable as a toy by some people, certainly have at it if that's what excites you

[Coastal]

If the comp lock just happens to also be more usable as a toy by some people, certainly have at it if that's what excites you

This is actually pretty funny, because I was thinking of accusing you of that in the other thread! I've never played with a knife in my life. I just like locks that are easy and intuitive to operate. I can unlock a Manix with a single finger or thumb using a replacement spring, but not with the OEM spring.

[salimoneus]

<snip>
I can unlock a Manix with a single finger or thumb using a replacement spring, but not with the OEM spring.

And that's exactly why I advise against replacing the stock spring with a weaker one, because the likelihood of accidentally unlocking it with only one finger is much higher than if two digits are required. This stuff isn't rocket science, pretty straight forward.

Again, if you're only using your knives as fidget toys, then it's not much of a concern I guess, and the one finger thing is a benefit. Whatever works for ya.

[vandelay]

for those wondering how you'd ever break a cage: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68763

[ladybug93]

for those wondering how you'd ever break a cage: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68763

this is what i was referring to when i said the early cages had issues breaking, but i haven't seen anything like this since they switched to the black plastic.

[Coastal]

And that's exactly why I advise against replacing the stock spring with a weaker one, because the likelihood of accidentally unlocking it with only one finger is much higher than if two digits are required. This stuff isn't rocket science, pretty straight forward.

Again, if you're only using your knives as fidget toys, then it's not much of a concern I guess, and the one finger thing is a benefit. Whatever works for ya.

Advice noted. And ignored. The one finger thing is always a benefit for me. Absolutely no downside. Think about it. I open my knives with my thumb (just one of them), and release the lock with one finger (or thumb) to close the knife, no matter the lock type. Why would I want it different with a CBBL? Just curious: how many digits do you use to operate a comp lock? Liner lock? Frame lock? Back lock? If you're using more than one, you should read up on how to operate a pocketknife.

I'm sorry, but I have never accidentally opened or closed my knife, no matter the lock. But thanks, I appreciate your concern for my safety.