Manix 2 or Shaman? Help me out...

[jmj3esq]

First post. I currently own about a dozen Spyderco's and am looking to buy a new high end folder. Im on the fence though. I would like a high end Manix 2 or a Shaman. Im leaning towards a sprint run Manix 2 with 15V and G10 or a Shaman in M4 and micarta. I want the best or close to it in blade steel. Can you please help me out with this decision? Show me yours if you would like.

[TkoK83Spy]

There's a 4V Shaman on the Spyderco Reddit Swap page...

[ladybug93]

welcome!

not to take away from rick, but the manix is far superior. it has better slicing geometry without sacrificing durability. it's more hand-filling because of the shape of the palm swell (people would argue the ergos are better on the shaman because of the contours, but it it fits your hand perfectly, contours are relatively meaningless). the manix also has a completely ambidextrous design and sits nicer in your pocket because of the way it narrows right at the clip. the shaman is also considerably more expensive for worse performance.

eta: but people love it. i suppose if you want the neediest spyderco available, it might be your preference.

[Manixguy@1994]

Please try to handle both before you decide to purchase a higher end folder . I’m obviously a big Manix fan but prefer the XL . I do like my Shaman a lot . Absolutely nothing wrong with the Manix2 and LB made a good argument why it may work better for you . I just hope you make a decision you will be happy with after using over a period of time . MG2

[Evil D]

Well rule #1: There is no best steel. All good, just different. Neither of the steels you listed are what I'd consider "best" but they do certain things extremely well (and those two steels do different things well).

I'm going to assume you may not know a lot about either of those steels based on how this post is worded, so I would first recommend reading up on both before you buy anything, because both steels can be a letdown depending on your expectations and if "best steel" is your only criteria. Get familiar with what each steel is really good at and be realistic with your uses and what you need, and definitely what your sharpening skill and equipment can support.

[wrdwrght]

If you already have a bunch, you’ll end up getting both. The order matters not.

Welcome.

[Wartstein]

I think you'll have a hard time finding a 15V Manix for a reasonable price anymore...

Can't really weigh in on your question, since I only know the lightweight Manix from real experience and just could handle a Shaman once.

I personally would go with the Manix though.
Thinner blade in full ffg, still very strong ,I prefer the CBBL over the comp.lock, and Manix a bit lighter than the Shaman.

What speaks for the Shaman for me: A bit more cutting edge and I really liked the ergos from just holding one - which does not say much about feel in hand in real use imo, but I assume it will be good then too.

[Dnwrghtsr]

I have the shaman m4 and it is the most solid feeling Spyderco I own. I have had 4 or 6 Manix and I personally like the paramilitary 2 better.

[Netherend]

Shaman has a thicker blade than the Manix .

Manix is more secure in hand

If my hands are wet or slippery then I feel more confident with the Manix.

The Shaman is a tough folder.

Here are some spydies of similar size for comparison. I hope it helps.


Note -Some of my knives have after market clips . The shaman works best with the spyderco clip. I tried a lynch clip deep carry on my shaman and it dug into my hand. The spyderco clip is perfect for it

[Wartstein]

CFE1EE46-8B5D-4113-B6DD-FD37AD056446.jpeg
...

Can't right see it on my tiny, crappy cell phone screen, but what's going on with that edge/ blade on your Manix? (Meant poisitively, I much prefer the looks of really used knives!!)

[kennethsime]

I carry my Manix LW a lot less than either of my Shamans, for what that’s worth. The Manix is really good in one particular grip, but I prefer the Shaman’s more neutral ergonomics.

Chasing down sprints and exclusives is a patient man’s game. A base model Manix LW can be had for $116, or $170 for the G-10 model. A base model Shaman is more like $230.

Both are heavy hitters in the Spyderco lineup. I suggest you try both. The Manix now, in its base model LW, and the Shaman later, when you can get your hands on a good sprint or exclusive.

[apollo]

If you want to compare those 2 then drop the idea of the Manix LW.
The shaman of my brother and my Manixes in g10 are comparable in almost every way. Its just a small personal opinion what handle you like the best and what lock you want. The Manix can be a tiny bit better in slicing but do not underestimate the shaman in that.
The LW Manix is in a different category it is not in any way similar to both the g10 or the shaman in hand, its so much slimmer , weighs less so the grip is totally different that it is comparing apples and oranges to those 2.

[VooDooChild]

The shaman has the better choil grip. Standard grip I might say manix.

The shaman really is a heavy duty knife, if you dont need thick blade stock then save some money and get the manix. The manix can also handle a lot.

There is a 15v shaman coming up...

[Wartstein]

...
The LW Manix is in a different category it is not in any way similar to both the g10 or the shaman in hand, its so much slimmer , weighs less so the grip is totally different that it is comparing apples and oranges to those 2.

We've discussed this in another thread my friend, and I agree with much of what you say above.

Just one point for clarity: I am pretty sure that the Manix LW handle technically is not any slimmer than the G10s, but that they are pretty much of the exact same thickness and generally exact same dimensions. I could be wrong, but really don't think so, and otherwise, yes, the feel in hand will be different indeed!

[Wandering_About]

I'm a fan of the Manix myself. The 15V Sprint is great but you'll be paying secondary market markups for one. There are some excellent regular production versions, from the base standard G10 to S110V with G10 handles. The lightweight version is excellent also, although it has more of the look and feel of a working tool instead of having the class and heft of the G10 versions.

Also, I've measured both a lightweight and G10 Manix with calipers and they are nearly the same thickness, about .45".

[Wartstein]

...
Also, I've measured both a lightweight and G10 Manix with calipers and they are nearly the same thickness, about .45".

Thanks for the effort and confirming!
I was pretty sure it has to be like that, but could not check myself - don't have a G10 Manix (but actually most likely would if there was no LW - love the platform, and am actually not a completely die hard LW guy )

[sal]

Hi Jmj3esq,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[kennbr34]

It's really hard to say which one of these steels is better, even if you know what characteristics you want to prioritize. Steels are basically a give and take: You make it better in one category, and it gets worse in another. 15V and M4 have about the same corrosion resistance, so it really comes down to whether you prioritize wear resistance or toughness.

According to Larrin Thomas's testing (https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/ ... esistance/) M4 is about twice as tough as 15V, but 15V has about twice s much wear resistance. (Larrin calls it edge retention, but I think wear resistance is a more self-explanatory descriptor).

That article also goes into the merits of toughness vs edge retention, so I won't unnecessarily parrot it, but in a nutshell a less tough steel is more likely to chip or fracture. So for example, if you do a lot of prying with the tip of your blade, or if you do a lot of twisting/torquing types of cuts that will exert lateral pressure on the edge, then you might want to prioritize toughness over wear resistance.

On the other hand, two caveats about Larrin's data: He ran his M4 at 61.1 HRC and his 15V at 63 HRC. However, Spyderco runs both the Shawman M4 and the Manix2 15V at about 64-65 HRC. So consider both of the toughness ratings to be less than what is listed, however with a higher hardness there is also more edge "stability" or "strength". In other words, a soft steel will get dented more easily than a hard steel, even if it's "tougher". The trade-off there is that while it will resist plastic deformation like rolling, denting and bending, non-plastic deformation like chipping, cracking and fracture become more likely. The other caveat is that Spyderco is using Shawn Houston's special heat treat, wheres I think Larrin was using the protocol specified by Crucible. You can read more about Shaw's goals here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82056 But to sum it up, he was really striving to find something with edge retention as close to Maxamet, but with toughness closer to K390/10V.

But, another little wrench in this gear... The blade geometries are so different, that it's not really fair to compare them based on the numbers. Wear resistance and how long a knife can keep cutting is greatly affected by the blade thickness and geometry, as well as its resistance to non-plastic deformation.

to tl;dr all of this... All I can give is an opinion, that the Shaman's M4 is going to be a better steel for you if you want something to stand up to tasks like, prying, or twisting cuts that impart a lot of lateral stresses on the blade edge; but it's going to suffer even more in terms of edge retention and cutting ability because of its geometry. On the other hand, the Manix2's 15V is going to be better for you if you you are keeping it strictly to linear (up/down) cuts and slicing; but it's going to be more prone to non-plastic deformation if you subject it to things like prying and twisting cuts. Either one should have pretty decent edge stability and resistance to plastic deformation.


All those things considered, some more practical advice: If you were looking to get a Manix2 in 15V for a decent price, that ship has sailed. They're really only available on the secondary market now for hugely inflated prices. But if you're willing to pay $300-$350, I would say get it while the getting is good. (I would also really strongly discourage you from helping the scalpers from making a profit, but that's a personal politic, so take that or leave that).

Beyond that, if you were leaning towards the Manix2 only for the 15V, there are a lot more options coming out in 15V soon, including a Shaman. I believe announced so far are the ParaMilitary 2, the Shaman, and the 15V Mule. But there is also going to be a collaboration folder between Shawn Houston and Spyderco someday soon.

Meanwhile, the CPM M4 Shaman seems a lot more accessible and for a fairer price and since it wasn't a sprint run, it's more likely to stay available on the secondary market for better prices than the sprint runs, which are pretty limited in pieces.

In my opinion, as someone who has a 15V Manix2 and loves it, and has never used a Shaman, I would honestly actually recommend the Shaman simply because I think there's less chance of disappointment. If you end up paying a huge inflated price for the Manix2, there are some odds you won't even like it. Plus, it will help you get a feel for if you even need or want a steel with more wear resistance.

[jmj3esq]

I am a huge outdoor/hunting/fishing fan. I do a lot of deer and big game hunting. I prefer a fixed blade knife to gut/clean wild game as to keep the blood and other fouling out of the internals of the knife. But, I would like a folder that can stand up to the abuse of gutting a deer, cutting through tough cartilage/bone and the sternum most importantly. It takes a tough knife and I broke the tip off my Kershaw Blur last fall doing the same. It sounds like the Shaman would be best for this purpose considering its blade heft over the Manix 2. Anyone have much experience with Spyderco knives in the field and how they stand up to big chores like gutting a deer?

[Netherend]

CFE1EE46-8B5D-4113-B6DD-FD37AD056446.jpeg
...

Can't right see it on my tiny, crappy cell phone screen, but what's going on with that edge/ blade on your Manix? (Meant poisitively, I much prefer the looks of really used knives!!)

The picture is low quality and compressed. My Manix g10 is well used and the finish has all kinds of scratches. It still effortlessly cuts and gets the job done. It’s one of my “getting stuff done “ knives.