Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

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aicolainen
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#41

Post by aicolainen »

That’s really sad, Giant.
Is there any legal process where you can refute the officer’s decision?
I’ve not hear much good about how Canada is run the last couple of years, but it’s still a considered a western democracy, so there should be some legal protection against malpractice from the authorities?

We have some restrictions here as well, and while they are ambiguous enough that some edge cases may be deemed illegal, it’s mostly pretty clear which knives should be considered legal or not.
I’ve never had it happen to me, but in every case I’ve heard about, it has been an erroneous decision on the custom agents part. I don’t think get much training on this topic, and sometimes confiscates items just because they look scary.
In any case, all confiscations are reported to the police authorities and you’ll be charged with trying to import an illegal item. This sounds kind of bad, but really isn’t.. as at this point all the mechanisms in place to ensure a fair and just process will kick in to provide legal protection. You’ll be able to dispute the charge, and as I said, I’ve never heard of anyone who didn’t eventually get their knife and have the case dismissed.

Good luck! Hope it works out for you!
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#42

Post by w3tnz »

Got nothing to do with blade hq they don’t owe you any explanation.. nothing they can do about it, you paid they shipped, done deal. I’m sure their shipping policy would be pretty clear on this, you need to know the risks and responsibilities as intl buyer unfortunately .

The part I find really weird is that USPS informed you of the seizure, once it gets to your country it’s not really their problem either. Once its handed to customs / the local carrier their job is done, but I don’t know if they operate in canada also?

You should have been informed by customs of the seizure, the reason, and have the right to appeal. I would find the phone number for the customs office and call them, on a daily basis, make sure you cost them $400 in return if nothing else.
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#43

Post by jdw »

w3tnz wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:39 am
Got nothing to do with blade hq they don’t owe you any explanation.. nothing they can do about it, you paid they shipped, done deal. I’m sure their shipping policy would be pretty clear on this, you need to know the risks and responsibilities as intl buyer unfortunately .

The part I find really weird is that USPS informed you of the seizure, once it gets to your country it’s not really their problem either. Once its handed to customs / the local carrier their job is done, but I don’t know if they operate in canada also?

You should have been informed by customs of the seizure, the reason, and have the right to appeal. I would find the phone number for the customs office and call them, on a daily basis, make sure you cost them $400 in return if nothing else.
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#44

Post by JRinFL »

Better dealers are better for a reason. Here is Knifeworks' policy when something like this happens:

Our main goal is to make sure every customer is comfortable while shopping with us. We, at Knifeworks Inc., strive to make our customers feel confident with each purchase. CUSTOMER SATISFACTION IS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY! We guarantee if you do not receive your order, you will receive your money back

Full policy here: https://knifeworks.com/international-policy/

Best to contact them before ordering for clarification.
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northvanbamboo
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#45

Post by northvanbamboo »

I am with w3tnz, they need to be contacted, also there has to be a legal process how to get CBSA decision reviewed/repealed...

As Certified Customs Specialist working in Canada for about a decade I can tell you the first and foremost mistake (this most likely red flagged your parcel) was not contacting the vendor right away after the purchase and asking them to claim on CN22 form the shipment as Low Value Shipment (LVS) where the entire shipment is valued at $200usd. This way your parcel is not scheduled for secondary where customs fees and duties are applied by the CBSA officer according to tariff schedule depending on CN22 form. I bet that was the moment when your shipment was deemed to be seized. Whether the officer liked the knife or not and kept it for this reason is only up to our speculation, yet highly probable speaking from my professional experience...

I am sorry your Shaman didn't reach you, it totally sucks, good luck man!!!
bobnikon
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#46

Post by bobnikon »

JRinFL wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:15 am
Better dealers are better for a reason. Here is Knifeworks' policy when something like this happens:

Our main goal is to make sure every customer is comfortable while shopping with us. We, at Knifeworks Inc., strive to make our customers feel confident with each purchase. CUSTOMER SATISFACTION IS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY! We guarantee if you do not receive your order, you will receive your money back

Full policy here: https://knifeworks.com/international-policy/

Best to contact them before ordering for clarification.
The full "international" portion does state that the customer must know the "laws" of their country. Not sure whether the caveat over-rides the above portion, but it may. If the item was returned, I imagine they would refund, not sure if it was "confiscated"...

The following terms are required for all International orders.
...
Customers are responsible to know about the laws of their country. We do not calculate International Duties and Taxes for the countries we ship to. Our shipping fees include the cost of the purchase order leaving USA only and it is eligible to be returned to the sender if nondelivery. It is also the responsibility to know what is and is not legal to import to the country your residing in.
bobnikon
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#47

Post by bobnikon »

northvanbamboo wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:06 am
I am with w3tnz, they need to be contacted, also there has to be a legal process how to get CBSA decision reviewed/repealed...

As Certified Customs Specialist working in Canada for about a decade I can tell you the first and foremost mistake (this most likely red flagged your parcel) was not contacting the vendor right away after the purchase and asking them to claim on CN22 form the shipment as Low Value Shipment (LVS) where the entire shipment is valued at $200usd. This way your parcel is not scheduled for secondary where customs fees and duties are applied by the CBSA officer according to tariff schedule depending on CN22 form. I bet that was the moment when your shipment was deemed to be seized. Whether the officer liked the knife or not and kept it for this reason is only up to our speculation, yet highly probable speaking from my professional experience...

I am sorry your Shaman didn't reach you, it totally sucks, good luck man!!!
Fair point, but a lot of companies won't risk a false declaration if the value isn't under. Not sure what the shaman was going for, if it was over or under. Just checked, $259 USD.

As well, and you can correct me if I am wrong, if CBSA were to determine that you were sent something with a false declaration you could be flagged for future inspections?

Not a customs type, so I don't know, but this is what I have heard.
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bgcameron
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#48

Post by bgcameron »

bobnikon wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:11 am
It is also the responsibility to know what is and is not legal to import to the country your residing in.
The problem is that the CBSA rules defining "centrifugal knives" is completely subjective. One friend of mine had two GEC slipjoints seized, yet another had a BHQ Sage 5 cleared after inspection.
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#49

Post by JRinFL »

bobnikon wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:11 am
JRinFL wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:15 am
Better dealers are better for a reason. Here is Knifeworks' policy when something like this happens:

Our main goal is to make sure every customer is comfortable while shopping with us. We, at Knifeworks Inc., strive to make our customers feel confident with each purchase. CUSTOMER SATISFACTION IS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY! We guarantee if you do not receive your order, you will receive your money back

Full policy here: https://knifeworks.com/international-policy/

Best to contact them before ordering for clarification.
The full "international" portion does state that the customer must know the "laws" of their country. Not sure whether the caveat over-rides the above portion, but it may. If the item was returned, I imagine they would refund, not sure if it was "confiscated"...

The following terms are required for all International orders.
...
Customers are responsible to know about the laws of their country. We do not calculate International Duties and Taxes for the countries we ship to. Our shipping fees include the cost of the purchase order leaving USA only and it is eligible to be returned to the sender if nondelivery. It is also the responsibility to know what is and is not legal to import to the country your residing in.
Yep, that's why I added my own caveat: "Best to contact them before ordering for clarification."
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“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
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curlyhairedboy
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#50

Post by curlyhairedboy »

if i'm recalling correctly, when Sal tried to get a firmer, objective definition nailed down to better understand what could make it into the country, there was no appetite for it. I understand the usefulness to LE of being able to snag someone/something on a knife charge if they seem 'off' before finding something meatier to charge, but it does run pretty hard against the principle of equal treatment under the law.
EDC Rotation: PITS, Damasteel Urban, Shaman, Ikuchi, Amalgam, CruCarta Shaman, Sage 5 LW, Serrated Caribbean Sheepsfoot CQI, XHP Shaman, M4/Micarta Shaman, 15v Shaman
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TheGiant80
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#51

Post by TheGiant80 »

w3tnz wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:39 am
Got nothing to do with blade hq they don’t owe you any explanation.. nothing they can do about it, you paid they shipped, done deal. I’m sure their shipping policy would be pretty clear on this, you need to know the risks and responsibilities as intl buyer unfortunately .

The part I find really weird is that USPS informed you of the seizure, once it gets to your country it’s not really their problem either. Once its handed to customs / the local carrier their job is done, but I don’t know if they operate in canada also?

You should have been informed by customs of the seizure, the reason, and have the right to appeal. I would find the phone number for the customs office and call them, on a daily basis, make sure you cost them $400 in return if nothing else.
I think you skipped a lot of what I wrote. I didn't email Blade HQ asking for a refund or a new knife. I never said they owed me anything. My message said that I was new to having a blade seized at the border, and I wanted to know if a) there was a chance customs would send it back to the shipper, b) if there was a chance customs would eventually decide it wasn't illegal and I could have it, c) if the knife would be held indefinitely or destroyed. Their reply was one sentence telling me they couldn't refund the money or send a new knife; both things I didn't ask about.

I know the risks as an international buyer, but as I said earlier, I had purchased several knives from the US (including more than one Shaman) in the past with no issues so I assumed the same would be true now.

As for USPS contacting me, I had signed up for email alerts whenever there was a new scan on the package. One morning I received a message saying the package had cleared customs. And then 17 minutes later another message came through informing me the knife is being held in customs.

Thanks everyone for your input. I think I know how to proceed from here.
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huyfishin
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#52

Post by huyfishin »

JRinFL wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:15 am
Better dealers are better for a reason. Here is Knifeworks' policy when something like this happens:

Our main goal is to make sure every customer is comfortable while shopping with us. We, at Knifeworks Inc., strive to make our customers feel confident with each purchase. CUSTOMER SATISFACTION IS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY! We guarantee if you do not receive your order, you will receive your money back

Full policy here: https://knifeworks.com/international-policy/

Best to contact them before ordering for clarification.
"full satisfaction is our number one priority" will not mean they are gonna offer any refund or send any additional free knives.

Its full satisfaction within their power. once the knife is in the couriers hand and it makes its way into a border officials hands its no longer there problem.
I Play With Salt Knives / instagram huyfishin
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JRinFL
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#53

Post by JRinFL »

bgcameron wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:20 am
bobnikon wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:11 am
It is also the responsibility to know what is and is not legal to import to the country your residing in.
The problem is that the CBSA rules defining "centrifugal knives" is completely subjective. One friend of mine had two GEC slipjoints seized, yet another had a BHQ Sage 5 cleared after inspection.
Those GECs were straight up theft as there is no possible interpretation of "centrifugal knife" that can apple to a traditional slipjoint like GEC makes. I wish more Canadians would push for investigations and reforms. But, not my Country so I'll say no more.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
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ekastanis
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#54

Post by ekastanis »

bgcameron wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:20 am
The problem is that the CBSA rules defining "centrifugal knives" is completely subjective.
I wrote the minister of justice and minister of public safety about this issue, and got canned garbage responses about customs officers evaluating each import on a case-by-case basis and determining whether the item was prohibited or not. Of course that is complete nonsense when a particular model of knife is prohibited according to one officer on one day, but not prohibited according to another a week later (all the while being legally offered for sale at Canadian retailers).
mmadison wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:46 pm
Enough already. Canada is lost.
Yes.
TheGiant80 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:24 am
informing me the knife is being held in customs.
OP, from this it sounds like your knife is being inspected at this point. If that's the case, they may release it with or without assessing taxes/fees. If they decide to seize it, you will receive a letter in the mail from CBSA outlining your (limited) options, not a status on the postal tracking website.
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#55

Post by huyfishin »

TheGiant80 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:24 am
informing me the knife is being held in customs.
OP, from this it sounds like your knife is being inspected at this point. If that's the case, they may release it with or without assessing taxes/fees. If they decide to seize it, you will receive a letter in the mail from CBSA outlining your (limited) options, not a status on the postal tracking website.
[/quote]

Yep!! this might be true! I got a letter in the mail one day when I purchased pepper balls and it was passing through customs (young and dumb purchase)

If you haven't received a letter i'm guessing you still have a chance.
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w3tnz
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#56

Post by w3tnz »

TheGiant80 wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:24 am
I think you skipped a lot of what I wrote. I didn't email Blade HQ asking for a refund or a new knife. I never said they owed me anything. My message said that I was new to having a blade seized at the border, and I wanted to know if a) there was a chance customs would send it back to the shipper, b) if there was a chance customs would eventually decide it wasn't illegal and I could have it, c) if the knife would be held indefinitely or destroyed. Their reply was one sentence telling me they couldn't refund the money or send a new knife; both things I didn't ask about.

As for USPS contacting me, I had signed up for email alerts whenever there was a new scan on the package. One morning I received a message saying the package had cleared customs. And then 17 minutes later another message came through informing me the knife is being held in customs.

Thanks everyone for your input. I think I know how to proceed from here.
I stand by what I said regarding bhq, their response was appropriate, they shouldn’t be expected to give any advice re-customs.

As ekastanis said, having a knife held by customs usually means they are assessing it for tax purposes, or it has been flagged for further inspection. What is the threshold for import tax?

In either case, they should contact you and let you know how to proceed, if it’s been over a week I’d give them a call and find out, all the best.
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bgcameron
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#57

Post by bgcameron »

JRinFL wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:32 am
bgcameron wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:20 am
bobnikon wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:11 am
It is also the responsibility to know what is and is not legal to import to the country your residing in.
The problem is that the CBSA rules defining "centrifugal knives" is completely subjective. One friend of mine had two GEC slipjoints seized, yet another had a BHQ Sage 5 cleared after inspection.
Those GECs were straight up theft as there is no possible interpretation of "centrifugal knife" that can apple to a traditional slipjoint like GEC makes. I wish more Canadians would push for investigations and reforms. But, not my Country so I'll say no more.
The theft part was when he won the appeal, and then received an empty box in the mail.
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Danke
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#58

Post by Danke »

Contact your MP. Contact media like CBC Go Public. Contact the Ombudsman.

File a complaint with the CBSA for office conduct and dispute the seizure.

When you write to your MP etc. explain that the current methodology they are using to judge the seizures is akin to a cop 50 kph to a car's speed so they can seize it for stunt driving. The CBSA agents use a beyond the NY flick that any folding locking knife for sale in Canada would fail. The test allows them to half open the knives and then flick the blade the rest of the way.

Explain that they are abusing their power to drive up their seizure rate by making common Canadian citizens criminals. And while they conduct this like a 25 year old scoring touchdowns at on 5 year old tiny mite real criminals are mailing real prohibited fire arms to their gang buddies and real drugs that kill people without any worries.

Using this test is is unethical and when a Law Enforcement organization with as much power as the CBSA behaves in an unethical manner it casts a shadow over every other call they make. Are they already hiding cocaine in truckers gas tanks to get a promotion?

The CBSA uses an internal and convoluted method to process appeals so there is no outside oversight of their decisions. This lets them further stack the deck and they use a poison pill when placing an appeal to deter anyone from filing one. Due to the lack of transparency around this internal process it does appear that these seized goods are not being destroyed but finding their way into agents hands which is a serious red flag showing internal corruption.

Tell as many people as you can as loudly as you can. But be nice. Focus on the absolute lack of ethics at the organization. Eventually the right person will see this and amplify it. If you get a comment about these knives being weapons that no one needs turn the discussion back to the ethics. Even though drugs are harmful and illegal anyone caught planting or faking evidence would see the case tossed and then every prior conviction re-opened.
amateur blacksmith
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#59

Post by amateur blacksmith »

sal wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:00 pm
Perhaps I'm just a cynic, but I don't think that the knife has to be legal or illegal, I think it depends n whether or not the officer in question likes it.

sal


!00% That's exactly why This shouldn't be left up to some turkey that has a chip on his or her shoulder or someone who's jealous of your purchase. It should be very clearly stated what is allowable and what is not. It seems to me that if you can walk into a Canadian retailer and purchase the same model legally, you were victim of some nobody with a god complex.
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Re: Canada's knife laws just cost me almost $400.

#60

Post by mokele »

I would strongly recommend getting a mailbox in the US near the border, order your things to be shipped there, and bring them across yourself.
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