Magnacut

[Manixguy@1994]

Thank you Sal . It will be worth the wait . Regards MG2

[Big John]

. The apex angle is only part of the overall blade geometry.

This is true, but let's say MagnaCut can be used at 10dps and exhibit the same stability as s30v at 15dps. Which one would have better edge retention then? And if that was the case, the MagnaCut would certainly out cut the s30v regarding front end cutting ability.

[Josh Crutchley]

. The apex angle is only part of the overall blade geometry.

This is true, but let's say MagnaCut can be used at 10dps and exhibit the same stability as s30v at 15dps. Which one would have better edge retention then? And if that was the case, the MagnaCut would certainly out cut the s30v regarding front end cutting ability.

Yeah of course the 10dps would out cut 15dps if all else was equal. The Magnacut would probably out cut the S30V in that scenario.

I just want Spyderco to take advantage of the better edge stability by running better steels thinner. If I get a Native 5 lw in MC it's the same geometry as the S35VN I already have. So the advantage MC has over S35VN is wasted imho. Yes you can reprofile the apex but then the BTE goes up so you have better geometry in one area and worse in another. Not sure if that makes sense. I'm not arguing about how good or bad a steel is, just that it might not matter as much with production knives.

[Big John]

Bte measurements mean a lot, but can be misleading.

If you sharpen a knife on the sharpmaker at 20dps, then start using the sharpmaker at 15dps, you are arguably increasing the overall bte measurement with every pass, yet you are increasing cutting ability with every pass. Of course, in that case you are thinning out the area above the apex bevel as you create a transition bevel. The spot where the apex bevel and the primary grind can be thinned out to yield a noticable increase in performance, whether it be through a transition bevel or convexing the base of the apex bevel, 2 methods that anyone with basic sharpening supplies are capable of doing. So I wouldn't say the MagnaCut would be a total waste for anyone incapable of doing a full regrind.

[Josh Crutchley]

Bte measurements mean a lot, but can be misleading.

If you sharpen a knife on the sharpmaker at 20dps, then start using the sharpmaker at 15dps, you are arguably increasing the overall bte measurement with every pass, yet you are increasing cutting ability with every pass. Of course, in that case you are thinning out the area above the apex bevel as you create a transition bevel. The spot where the apex bevel and the primary grind can be thinned out to yield a noticable increase in performance, whether it be through a transition bevel or convexing the base of the apex bevel, 2 methods that anyone with basic sharpening supplies are capable of doing. So I wouldn't say the MagnaCut would be a total waste for anyone incapable of doing a full regrind.

I don't think it's a total waste as the corrosion resistance is on another level. I suppose it's my want of thin blades getting the best of me. In my uses toughness hasn't played a large enough role for me to care. I don't go lower than ~15dps anymore unless it's just for fun. If the stock bevel angle is decent that's where it stays.

I've heard people talk about thinning edges out in many threads but no one ever posts a pic. I can see how it would help but I can't imagine it looks good. If I was going to ruin the looks might as well regrind it myself.

[Coastal]

I've heard people talk about thinning edges out in many threads but no one ever posts a pic. I can see how it would help but I can't imagine it looks good. If I was going to ruin the looks might as well regrind it myself.

Josh, I think most of them don't thin it so much that it starts to look weird. I'm sure I remember seeing some of Vivi's, for example, that he said he thinned out, but to me they just look like a shallower-than-normal bevel.

[Josh Crutchley]

Josh, I think most of them don't thin it so much that it starts to look weird. I'm sure I remember seeing some of Vivi's, for example, that he said he thinned out, but to me they just look like a shallower-than-normal bevel.

Not sure if Vivi's is the same. He actually loaned me one of the knives he thinned out. It was the first time I tried H1.
viewtopic.php?t=89632

[Coastal]

Oh, okay, I remember that thread. If it was scandi, it's not the same. My impression is that his usual practice is to reprofile symmetrically, at a shallower angle than factory. I asked him what angle he uses, and he said he had never measured it.

[skeeg11]

Thank you Sal . It will be worth the wait . Regards MG2

I certainly hope so. I've been putting knife purchases on hold until I can sample Spyderco MagnaCut. Actually hoping the overall balance of properties is so sweet that it will force me to make it my base steel for most future purchases.

[Gtscotty]

Hi Senate,

Yes, you are correct, it is still in-the-works. Had to sort some lock issues on material. It should be out in the next month or so.

sal

Excellent.

[sal]

Please try to keep in mind that this is a new blade steel for which a lot of research and Real World Testing (RWT) will be needed before we, as makers, can get it dialed in. We're working closely with Shawn on heat treating and doing a lot of in-house testing. If there is a knife company making MagnCut model that you would like, I would suggest buying it and using the **** out of it. Then share what you learn.

sal

[z1r]

Buying from a company that is the first to get it right is more important to me than buying from someone that rushed to market and was first to get it wrong.

[vivi]

. The apex angle is only part of the overall blade geometry.

This is true, but let's say MagnaCut can be used at 10dps and exhibit the same stability as s30v at 15dps. Which one would have better edge retention then? And if that was the case, the MagnaCut would certainly out cut the s30v regarding front end cutting ability.

Yeah of course the 10dps would out cut 15dps if all else was equal. The Magnacut would probably out cut the S30V in that scenario.

I just want Spyderco to take advantage of the better edge stability by running better steels thinner. If I get a Native 5 lw in MC it's the same geometry as the S35VN I already have. So the advantage MC has over S35VN is wasted imho. Yes you can reprofile the apex but then the BTE goes up so you have better geometry in one area and worse in another. Not sure if that makes sense. I'm not arguing about how good or bad a steel is, just that it might not matter as much with production knives.

reprofiled knives are thinner bte.

[Josh Crutchley]

. The apex angle is only part of the overall blade geometry.

This is true, but let's say MagnaCut can be used at 10dps and exhibit the same stability as s30v at 15dps. Which one would have better edge retention then? And if that was the case, the MagnaCut would certainly out cut the s30v regarding front end cutting ability.

Yeah of course the 10dps would out cut 15dps if all else was equal. The Magnacut would probably out cut the S30V in that scenario.

I just want Spyderco to take advantage of the better edge stability by running better steels thinner. If I get a Native 5 lw in MC it's the same geometry as the S35VN I already have. So the advantage MC has over S35VN is wasted imho. Yes you can reprofile the apex but then the BTE goes up so you have better geometry in one area and worse in another. Not sure if that makes sense. I'm not arguing about how good or bad a steel is, just that it might not matter as much with production knives.

reprofiled knives are thinner bte.

How so?

I could see a weird deep hollow getting thinner.

[Evil D]

It really depends on how the "reprofile" is done. The knives I've seen of Vivi's have edge bevels so wide that they border on being a 50/50 bevel and blade grind reprofile, compared to using an Edge Pro to drop a bevel from 40 inclusive to 30 inclusive. Doing a reprofile the way Vivi does his will thin the whole blade behind the bevel, and to me is kinda closer to a mild convex than a lowered edge bevel.

[vivi]

because if you grind it at a thinner angle, it gets thinner.

or are you talking about behind the bevel rather than behind the edge?

I define the edge as the apex. so if I take a stock Pacific Salt and grind the bevel back to 10dps the blade will definitely be thinner right behind the apex.

[vivi]

It really depends on how the "reprofile" is done. The knives I've seen of Vivi's have edge bevels so wide that they border on being a 50/50 bevel and blade grind reprofile, compared to using an Edge Pro to drop a bevel from 40 inclusive to 30 inclusive. Doing a reprofile the way Vivi does his will thin the whole blade behind the bevel, and to me is kinda closer to a mild convex than a lowered edge bevel.

Assuming a steady hand it's no different, the angles are just a bit more extreme.

I used to convex the bevels into the blade grind by hand and those knives cut very well. I had a ZDP189 Caly Jr ground extremely thin and convexed into the primary grind. It looked a lot different than my EDC Pacific. Tried to link some photos but they're so old they expired.

[Josh Crutchley]

because if you grind it at a thinner angle, it gets thinner.

or are you talking about behind the bevel rather than behind the edge?

I define the edge as the apex. so if I take a stock Pacific Salt and grind the bevel back to 10dps the blade will definitely be thinner right behind the apex.

We have been talking about BTE thickness. Yes if you measure the actual apex bevel it will be thinner at lower angles but where the bevel meets the the rest of the blade will be thicker.

If you measure at B the reprofiled edge is thinner. The problem is the BTE thickness has increased as A is thicker than B.

[Evil D]

It really depends on how the "reprofile" is done. The knives I've seen of Vivi's have edge bevels so wide that they border on being a 50/50 bevel and blade grind reprofile, compared to using an Edge Pro to drop a bevel from 40 inclusive to 30 inclusive. Doing a reprofile the way Vivi does his will thin the whole blade behind the bevel, and to me is kinda closer to a mild convex than a lowered edge bevel.

Assuming a steady hand it's no different, the angles are just a bit more extreme.

I used to convex the bevels into the blade grind by hand and those knives cut very well. I had a ZDP189 Caly Jr ground extremely thin and convexed into the primary grind. It looked a lot different than my EDC Pacific. Tried to link some photos but they're so old they expired.

Maybe a better way to say it is they're closer to a zero grind then, since the degrees between edge bevel and blade bevel are less and less. And in this case if you were to measure the width of the blade at the top of your bevel then it will surely be wider than the factory behind the bevel width since it's so much higher up on the blade. This is a case where behind the bevel thickness doesn't always tell the whole story in how two knives will perform, since a knife with a thinner behind the bevel thickness may not slice better than your reprofiled blade of the bevel on the other knife is 60 degrees inclusive. Spyderco could deliberately grind their edge bevels steep and that would make the blade thickness behind the bevel as thin as possible on a given blade grind thickness but it would also cut like garbage that way.

[JRinFL]

The blade never gets thicker when you remove metal. Whatever thickness the untouched portion of the blade had before you changed the bevel it will still have. I don't see how this will make cutting worse as you are already thinning out the portion of the blade that does that actual work of cutting.

The reason why cheap steak knives cut so well for so long is that they have very thin stock with parallel sides. It is almost the minimum amount of steel needed to support the edge. A slight taper towards the top would be better yet, but not enough to make the added cost worth it. FFG is a wedge and HHG is still a wedge (like a tuned axe blade), but with better performance, IMO.