Tool Steels Are Much Easier To Sharpen

[Manifestgtr]

I’m sure it’s been discussed ad nauseam somewhere

But I’ve noticed a MAJOR difference between S30v, etc. and M4, etc. when it comes to bringing up the sharpness. With my sharpening routine (dmt plates, shapton glass and diamond strops) M4, Cruwear and K390 come to life much quicker and at a lower finishing grit. I just finished sharpening my M4 Native…it was ready to whittle hair in half, on contact, after an 8 micron strop and that’s what led me to post this.

I’m not saying I’ve NEVER had that experience with S30v or ZPD but as a rule, those steels just don’t come to life as quickly for me and it’s a noticeable pattern. Is it chromium carbines? Is the vanadium/molybdenum/unobtainium more available to add aggression at lower grits in these types of steels? I remember hearing people talk about these steels as though they’re more difficult to sharpen and I find it to be the direct opposite. I don’t think I’ve ever had a bad experience sharpening K390 and i remember being really intimidated the first time I took it to the stones…

[apollo]

Non Stainless steels also sharpen and take a nicer edge easier in my point of view.
It why i am sad to have missed the rex45 g10 manix 2 or one of the exclisive ones.
The down side it you need to be a person who can live with patina and corrosion and not many people are that way i think.

[Big John]

Thus mirrors my experience, and yeah, chromium carbides as well as total carbide volume has something to do with it.... There's a reason why Larrin set out to minimize chromium carbides and maximize vanadium carbides (given the composition) when he made MagnaCut. Some stainless can exhibit similar properties to the tool steels also, just depends on the heat treat. Sometimes I randomly encounter an s30v or s90v blade that becomes sticky sharp much faster than the others. s110v always fights back however.

[JD Spydo]

I think that would depend a great deal upon certain heat treatments. Because I've had a couple of blades with D-2 that took a lot of time and work to sharpen. I will admit that one of them was pretty beat up but neither one of them was a piece of cake to sharpen by any means.. Especially any of Bob Doziers D-2 blades I ever encountered.

Also a friend of mine has a tactical hawk made with S-7 tool steel and it is a lot harder to sharpen that most of the axes, hatchets and hawks made with typical high carbon steels that are used in most striking tools.

You mention M-4 against S30V and you might have a point on that one. But I don't think either one of them are particularly easy per se. But maybe it depends on how beat up they are in some cases.

[Blerv]

There are a lot of factors to consider from the formula to the bake. All of which are above my head, lol.

In general though if I recall correctly Chromium carbides in non-CPM style steels (like ZDP) tend to be large and less homogenous.

I’m a pretty mariginal sharpener but too have seen the low carbide stainless steels (AEB-L) and non or semi-stainless steels as easier to touch up. I’d personally trade corrosion resistance and even edge retention for these factors but besides a bit of speckle corrosion on M4 haven’t seen huge drawbacks, in my climate and use.

It’s part of the reason I’m buying more SE knives. I can get them functionally sharp easily and that’s (imho) good enough.

[Giygas]

There are a lot of factors to consider from the formula to the bake. All of which are above my head, lol.

In general though if I recall correctly Chromium carbides in non-CPM style steels (like ZDP) tend to be large and less homogenous.

I’m a pretty mariginal sharpener but too have seen the low carbide stainless steels (AEB-L) and non or semi-stainless steels as easier to touch up. I’d personally trade corrosion resistance and even edge retention for these factors but besides a bit of speckle corrosion on M4 haven’t seen huge drawbacks, in my climate and use.

It’s part of the reason I’m buying more SE knives. I can get them functionally sharp easily and that’s (imho) good enough.

Zdp189 is a particle metallurgy steel, but you're otherwise correct about the carbides.

[curlyhairedboy]

It sounds pretty subjective, but it may be related to hardness - Spyderco tends to HT tool steels to a higher HRC than stainless; this can affect burr formation and how quickly that burr releases.

[metaphoricalsimile]

When I did my first proper sharpening on my M4 Sage 5, I laid back the factory bevel to 15 dps and evened the grind up and despite trying to be careful not to form a burr the heel and tip of the blade did form a nasty burr that were extremely difficult to remove. Really I had to destroy the apex and go back to 15dps with my newly-evened bevels to fully establish the apex with no burr. Now that I have a proper burrless apex it *is* really easy to keep sticky sharp.

Cruwear has been a dream to work with from the start.

My suspicion is that chromium carbides are particularly susceptible to carbide tearout, which can make it difficult to get a really proper apex, but that's just speculation without having the proper equipment to investigate it.

[z1r]

Hmm, I'm certainly not a master sharpener by any means but I do find that certain steels are much easier to get "sharp" than others. I love ZDP, but to be honest, it takes a good deal of effort to get it as sharp as my Spy27 N5. I find the same to be true for my favorite knife, the K390 Endela. It will get sharp and stay sharp a good long time but I can't get it as sharp as I can my Spy27 N5. I love how easy Spy27 is to sharpen, how sharp it gets, and it is very corrosion resistant for my needs. I'd love an Endela in Spy27!

1095, 52100 are super easy to get a great edge on, as is 440C and whatever they use in SAK's. I don't think it is a stainless vs non-stainless issue as much as the specific alloy.

[ZrowsN1s]

Ive always found M4, Rex45/Hap40 and K390 to be easy to get sharp very sharp.

But H1, AEBL, and ZDP-189 too.

[vivi]

I don't think it's a carbon steel vs stainless steel thing. I've had steels from both categories be easy to sharpen and others be tough to sharpen.

The steels that sharpen most easily for me are....

H1
Victorinox steel
M4
ZDP189
K390
O1
52100
S7
BD1
BD1N
S30V
Rex45
LC200N
440C

Quite a variety.

Some I rate easy to sharpen because they're very quick and easy to grind and the apex gets keen with little fuss (H1, 440C, LC200N)

Others I include because their high hardness makes them reluctant to burr, giving me a very crisp apex (K390, M4, Rex45, ZDP189). Despite taking a long time to grind, once the bevel is set I find these steels easy to sharpen.

[z1r]

I don't think it's a carbon steel vs stainless steel thing. I've had steels from both categories be easy to sharpen and others be tough to sharpen.

The steels that sharpen most easily for me are....

H1
Victorinox steel
M4
ZDP189
K390
O1
52100
S7
BD1
BD1N
S30V
Rex45
LC200N
440C

Quite a variety.

Some I rate easy to sharpen because they're very quick and easy to grind and the apex gets keen with little fuss (H1, 440C, LC200N)

Others I include because their high hardness makes them reluctant to burr, giving me a very crisp apex (K390, M4, Rex45, ZDP189). Despite taking a long time to grind, once the bevel is set I find these steels easy to sharpen.

That's probably a better way to describe things than I did. But I agree 100%. There's a definite place for those in your first category. I love LC200N for that very reason, Spy27 too.

[James Y]

I personally prefer stainless over tool steels for blades (except for machetes). When I began carrying pocketknives in the ‘70s, they were straight carbon steel and were easy to resharpen. But when I discovered good stainless steels, I preferred that.

The steels below are what I’ve found easy (some super-easy) to sharpen, or at least the knives I have in these steels:

Victorinox steel
VG-10
H1
LC200N
440C
S35VN
S30V
AUS-8
154CM

There may be others. Those are off the top of my head.

Oddly enough, I had one Buck pocketknife in 420HC that was really difficult to put a good edge on. Maybe the heat treat was bad, or maybe I’m not as half-decent at sharpening as I thought.

Jim

[Manifestgtr]

Victorinox steel
VG-10
H1
LC200N
440C
S35VN
S30V
AUS-8
154CM

+1 on VG10 and LC200N and I’ll add 8cr and 9cr to that list.

Despite their stainlessness, those are definitely “easy” to sharpen for me.

[Wandering_About]

I think that hardness and retained austenite, as well as sharpening technique and abrasive choice are all more important factors than chromium carbide.

Most folks will find steels with low carbide volume the easiest to sharpen.

High hardness steels deburr more easily than softer steels, as a general rule. I do think that many folks with less than perfect technique or abrasives will find that they can deburr very low wear resistance steels better just because they are removing material faster.

[JSumm]

I think that hardness and retained austenite, as well as sharpening technique and abrasive choice are all more important factors than chromium carbide.

Most folks will find steels with low carbide volume the easiest to sharpen.

High hardness steels deburr more easily than softer steels, as a general rule. I do think that many folks with less than perfect technique or abrasives will find that they can deburr very low wear resistance steels better just because they are removing material faster.

I think ZDP-189 is a good example to illustrate this.

[jdw]

I find 52100 by far the easiest steel for me to sharpen and bring to a keen edge. I can get my M4 pretty sharp but it holds a working edge forever. Through the years I have read a lot of complaints about sharpening ZDP189 but I have always found it relatively easy to sharpen compared to other steels of a similar hardness. I always issue the disclaimer that I am decidedly NOT a sharpening guru.

[p_atrick]

I don't have much experience with tools steels, but I'll second the above thoughts on 52100. I can bring up a screaming sharp edge (even a mirror polish) with ease. I am NOT a good sharpener, but feel like king of the world with 52100. The steel has too much up-keep for my tastes. I like AEB-L as well. There is a recent Magnacut thread where somebody says you get the sharpenability of a tool steel with great corrosion resistance. Has anybody else had that experience with Magnacut?

[Manifestgtr]

There is a recent Magnacut thread where somebody says you get the sharpenability of a tool steel with great corrosion resistance. Has anybody else had that experience with Magnacut?

That was probably me and yes, absolutely. That’s Magnacut’s true achievement, imo.