In Defense of Liners

[Bloke]

I might be in the minority opinion here, but am I the only one who doesn't get excited when Spyderco announces a 'linerless' model? The centering woes of the Para 3 LW, and the poor action in every Native 5 LW I've handled just gives me pause for concern, particularly towards the latest Stretch XL. ...

There's no such thing as a Light Weight Model (LW).

Light weight models of the original knife are the Budget Version and accordingly you get what you paid for.

[VooDooChild]

The only knives that should be linerless are Salt knives. I love the look and feel of knives with liners, particularly full liners.

Same.
I want my salts linerless, but I would like them on all of my non-salty knives.

[skeeg11]

I think the middle ground here is something like a linerless G10 w/phophorbronze washers. Sorta like a Siren.

[James Y]

Personally, I'd love to see some Golden-made, linerless G10, back lock Salt models.

Jim

[brancron]

I generally value light weight over “good action.” And there’s no real world use case in which the added strength (which is likely marginal anyways) of liners would make a difference to me. The Manix 2 LW, Native Chief and Stretch 2 XL are so good (in my opinion) partly because of how light they are for the size.

[DukeBrnz]

I like the models with liners but I also like and appreciate the models without liners.

Poor action on the Native 5 LWs? I have at least 6 N5 LWs and I think they're all great considering no liners or bronze washers. They're all reasonably smooth and when open I can push the lock bar and the blade drops 90°and allows me to close it the rest of the way with my thumb. My linerless G10 N5 is nice too. I still have 1 N5 with liners and it's developed a weird click when I open and close it. I still haven't figured out why it's doing that

Hey I think I know what's going on with your G10 Native! I believe it's the spring, rubbing against the lockbar and catching slightly. Try putting a dab of lube on the lockbar where the spring rubs. I use florinated grease but I imagine something else similarly thick could work. Good luck, and let me know if it works.

[Blerv]

I adore linerless knives. Lightweight and cheap.
Drilled liners annoy me, more money and collectors of lint.

In general though 95% of my collection sits in a Spyderpack or near it. I beat up the cheap ones more than the rest.

Plus a liner-free FRN knife is basically built on nylon washers. They are smooth as glass most the time. Maybe not “quick” for the nails-flickers but smoooooth.

[RustyIron]

Off the top of my head, I have four different linerless models: Manix 2 LW, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly, and Ladybug. The two latter models shouldn't be part of the discussion because the one-piece molded construction is what makes them what they are. But the Lightweight Manix and Native 5 are also great. I actually had the Heavyweight versions of each knife, and sold them because I preferred the lightweight. They function as I expect, they're light, and I marvel at the brilliant simplification of the design. Please don't go buggering up the elegant linerless models with superfluous slabs of metal and unnecessary bits and bolts.

[Blerv]

The Manix2 LW is interesting. The cage and the ribbed FRP are definitely an evolution of the design over slab lockbacks of year past. Colin Chapman would be proud.

[u.w.]

My preference is for Liner-LESS.

u.w.

[Doc Dan]

I want liners in some and linerless in others. I prefer my Delica and Endura and SSS and Caly3 with liners. Others I prefer linerless.

As far as linerless goes, the M2 LW seems quite amazing to me (so, too, does the M2 linerless G10 backlock, which I hope comes back).

[apollo]

Before anything I use (abuse) the manix 2 LW (more over that later).
It is a great knife and everything i say is my personal opinion so i am not trying to offend anyone here.

But the LW is and will forever be a thorn in my eye and a nail in my coffin.
Why ? Because not only do i find the weight of the Manix 2 g10 perfect it also makes the knife one of the strongest folders spyderco makes and on top of that it makes it also one of the more customizable knives spyderco makes.( And i just love doing that ) Now the LW on the other hand is far to light for me , that it not only makes it feel more unreliable and weaker then the g10 for me it also makes it feel cheap (And that is not the case money wise) on top of that it is not customizable even better take it apart and you can trow half of it in the trash. And no giving it a paint job still leaves the frcp handle shape that i find very grippy but definitely not appealing.

On the positive side it is a very good knife so since i can not stand it i use it as disposable knife I generally do not care about. So I probably used it more and harder then most who have a version of it. That is why i hate it and love it at the same time. Its a great knife but i fear i hate it because i fear spyderco will some day stop making g10 knives with liners as the Manix 2 g10 out of pure cost. And that will break my heart a bit. I will always gladly pay extra for a linerd g10 knife and definitely for a Manix with that setup. Why do i think that ? I could be a fool. But Lw knives are trending more and more and people bash on everything that is a little heavier these days. On top of that cost of manufacturing will only go up so it worry’s me allot.

And about that linerles Manix Lockback oh please spyderco please put some liners in that thing so we can have the OG back. The Old mini manix is my favorite EDC of all time i have bin using it almost daily for more then 5 years now and it still cuts like a lazer is as strong as bulldozer and the thing keeps on looking new whatever i do with it it does not even scratch! While if i even look at some newer spyders i can swear i can see them scratching or pitting or chipping somewhere even without touching them. The only thing bad i could ever say about the originals is that the paint on the clip sucks so bad it feels like it came from a flea market. But take off the clip and that knife is pure gold!

So HURRAY for Liners and yikes for LW’s

[Evil D]

Personally, I'd love to see some Golden-made, linerless G10, back lock Salt models.

Jim

I really like linerless G10 because it gives me a lot of freedom to tweak the handle shape if I need to. G10 can also be much more rigid than FRN in a given thickness. I really expected to see this more once they started using clip screw anchors, since liners used to be a big part of clip mounting but they don't seem as necessary for that anymore. I have a couple old linerless micarta models where the clip screws thread right into the micarta and I won't touch the screws out of fear of ripping out the threads.

[dlum1]

The linerless g10 golden models are currently my favorite -- just as rigid as frn with liners but without the maintenance hassle. However, the g10 is not as durable as FRN or FRCP. Still, I'd love to own a g10 native salt or a g10 native chief salt (or both )

[JSumm]

I'm really enjoying the linerless construction of the Native Chief. Keeps the weight down. Rigid enough to not tell a difference. And the smooth surface on the inside is easier to clean out. Kinda best of both worlds.

[cjk]

I prefer both. I wouldn't want either one to go away.
The salt knives are superb for wet and salty things exactly the way they are.
I like the aftermarket support for scales and such for many of the linered models.
Spyderco makes a shocking number of both. It's pretty impressive to see the whole product line in several cabinets like at blade show. They have a ton of different SKUs.

[James Y]

Personally, I'd love to see some Golden-made, linerless G10, back lock Salt models.

Jim

I really like linerless G10 because it gives me a lot of freedom to tweak the handle shape if I need to. G10 can also be much more rigid than FRN in a given thickness. I really expected to see this more once they started using clip screw anchors, since liners used to be a big part of clip mounting but they don't seem as necessary for that anymore. I have a couple old linerless micarta models where the clip screws thread right into the micarta and I won't touch the screws out of fear of ripping out the threads.

Yes, knife handle designs have come a long way since screws threaded directly into the handle materials.

I also think that even though FRN may be tougher than G10, G10 is still plenty tough. I've used SAKS with cellidor handles for decades, and at worst have hairline cracked them a little. G10 is WAY more durable than cellidor, delrin, wood, as well as many other materials used in knife handles.

Jim

[araneae]

Carry a Salt 1 for a few months and then tell me about the action. I have a pile of Salt series knives and they are all super smooth. I drop them in the the dirt, cut muddy vegetation, stick them back in my pocket and if needed, take them in the shower for a rinse at the end of the day. No drying required. Do that with a linered knife and we'll compare in a month. I have lots of knives with liners, but linerless has its place for sure.

As I have said many times before, I have seen only 1 linerless FRN handle broken in my time on this forum and it was run over by a Bobcat while the blade was stuck in the ground. Perceived strength of liners is just that.

[ABX2011]

How does Stretch XL lockup compare to other Spydies?
I love the Manix 2 Lightweight. Also like the Dragonfly 2 wharnie. Never warmed to the Native 5 Lightweight or the Para 3 Lightweight.

[FRNFanboy]

I’m with you in favor of liners. Even if linerless FRN is perfectly adequate, steel liners are necessarily more sturdy and rigid. But for me, the real difference is in the feel. Linerless knives feel cheap and flimsy, even if they aren’t. I’ve gotten used to it more or less in the Native 5 Lightweight, but the Manix 2 and Para 3 just feel unpleasant. Even a small knife like the Delica feels more solid and substantial.

With that in mind, I’ve been curious why Spyderco uses the “milled out” design in these knives, maximizing the amount of air inside the handle. Making the scales just solid slabs of FRN with no gaps or spaces would make them more rigid and substantial in the hand. Do we need to make a lightweight knife that much lighter?