Military 2 Discussion (Merged)

[Rinzler]

The easiest way to end this purse fight is for spyderco to release a military 2 and a paramilitary 2 XL on the same day, but put the same knife in both boxes.

[Wartstein]

The easiest way to end this purse fight is for spyderco to release a military 2 and a paramilitary 2 XL on the same day, but put the same knife in both boxes.

I definitely thought it looked like a Para 2 XL, but those pictures do show Military lineage. That is why I want to see it side by side with a Para 2 as well. Really though, in the end, it is semantics, and hardly matters.

There isn´t actually any "fight" imho...

- The Military is just an iconic and well loved model, and so I think it is a good thing and only natural when people discuss the changes that were made in the Military 2 and give their subjective opinions on how they feel about those. If it would leave everybody cold, the design itself would probably too and always have (which is obviously not the case at all)

- This is what mostly happens here: Some say the Millie 2 has not changed substantially, some say it has but it does not matter, some say it has and they think the "2" is actually closer to a PM2 XL. All fine, as long - and almost everyone here did this - the opinions of the other "camps" are respected and valued (after all it is really subjective: For example one feels a different lock is a noticable change due to operation, ergos and so on, for the next one, equally valid, this is not a thing in THEIR personal use

- Literally saying that is not even (quote) "up for debate or something" and not "even open for opinion" is a bit strange though. We could pretty much end this forum if such subjective things were suddenly a matter of "universal truth" and the subjective experiences and opinions of actually seasoned and passionate knife users would not count.
I personally may lay TOO much emphasis on always saying "true just for me" "totally get and respect your view, but for me subjectively it is still xy", but I think this is still better than postulating how subjective things have to be period.

/ As for "just semantics" - in my book only partly true (and of course ymmv!): For people who love the original Millie, or just a perfect large linerlock outdoor Spydie, it could very well matter if the "Millie 2" is marketed as this, or rather a "PM 4" or whatever:
"2" is almost always perceived as an upgrade over "1", people will gravitate to the new and shiny version, unexperienced knife users will believe even more that a comp.lock is necessarily an "upgrade" over a linerlock (which it CAN be for some/many, don´t get me wrong). Also, most "1s" have disappeared from Spydercos lineup eventually after a "2" came to life.
So just the name "Military 2" will probably make it more likely that the "1" will be less sold, less (or not at all) in stock, get less sprint runs, and more likely will disappear one day.

- And, important for me:Let me repeat: The Millie 2 will certainly be a great knife, many will love it and I am happy for those!
Just for me (again...) it would have been better called a "PM4" or "PM2 XL". I (and David, and others) have my (our) reason(s) for that, but there are also reasons for seeing this as the perfect Millie 2 of course - depending on what features one emphasizes.

[Bloke]

Personally, I couldn’t possibly care less what the knife is called or what other knife it looks like.

From where I’m standing, I can see the Military has a liner lock, a unique clip and no redundant holes in the scales.

This new knife has a different lock, a generic clip and nine extra holes in the scales.

[Mushroom]

If that’s not clear to you… Like I said, it sounds like denial.

I promise you, the evolution is very clearly from the Military Model. I’m questioning my own sanity wondering how this can even be a debate.

Questioning peoples sanity doesn’t make sense. The fact you feel that it is a debate says it all. It’s not a debate. Some are of the opinion it’s more of a pm2 xl, others think it’s more like the military. End of discussion, no debate necessary.

But there is that big ol hill of beans I guess.


I’ll see my way out now.

That’s the thing, I don’t think it’s up for debate or something that’s even open for opinion. It just is what it is. People can call the knife a PM2 if they want, that doesn’t make them any less wrong.

But I don't fully get…

Yeah I know that’s usually the case.

[TkoK83Spy]

I'm currently in the car for that 6 hour drive, keep me entertained fella's!

[Evil D]

I'm currently in the car for that 6 hour drive, keep me entertained fella's!

Absolutely nobody can convince me that this knife is not the new Paramilitary 1.998524² XLT GT 2.5 Turbo.

It's indisputable.

[prndltech]

I'm currently in the car for that 6 hour drive, keep me entertained fella's!

Absolutely nobody can convince me that this knife is not the new Paramilitary 1.998524² XLT GT 2.5 Turbo.

It's indisputable.

That’s a great model name



And I agree

[VooDooChild]

Military 2 Electric Boogaloo.

[Mushroom]

I'm currently in the car for that 6 hour drive, keep me entertained fella's!

Absolutely nobody can convince me that this knife is not the new Paramilitary 1.998524² XLT GT 2.5 Turbo.

It's indisputable.

Which you’re welcome to think but when it comes down to it… Incorrect.

The PM2 and Military Model have distinctly different blades and handles. The Military 2 is very clearly still using the the same handle and blade as the Military Model not the PM2.

To say otherwise is denial. It’s indisputable.

(And just to get ahead of it, obviously the lock is different and that leads to parts that are not the “same” but for all intents and purposes, they really are.)

Military 2 Electric Boogaloo.

LOL! Best post of the thread!

[TkoK83Spy]

That model name has a real ring to it, just rolls right off the tongue! Hahah

[JSumm]

Still need to know if it is Drop Shutty.



And we need a slicey test. Maybe Blade HQ could do a 5 blade rating next to each knife on their website for Shuttiness and Slicing ability. I think the Watu would have 5 blades for Shutty and 5 blades for Slicey for example. The Military Para PM 2 XL would probably have 5 blades for Shutty and maybe 3 blades for Slicey.

[p_atrick]

Still need to know if it is Drop Shutty...

I'm guessing this comment was made tongue-in-cheek. That said, the Knife Center video talked about a new bushing pivot. As I understand it, the Military (perhaps only the CQI variant) had the same pivot as the PM2 where the middle is thicker than the parts that go into the liner. This strikes me as a quasi-bushing pivot. When I think of a Spyderco bushing pivot, I think of the Sage 5 and Kapara updates. So I am curious to see if the M2 has the same thing. This is an interesting model, and a bushing pivot would make it more so since I've never handled one before.

[Wartstein]

Questioning peoples sanity doesn’t make sense. The fact you feel that it is a debate says it all. It’s not a debate. Some are of the opinion it’s more of a pm2 xl, others think it’s more like the military. End of discussion, no debate necessary.

But there is that big ol hill of beans I guess.


I’ll see my way out now.

That’s the thing, I don’t think it’s up for debate or something that’s even open for opinion. It just is what it is. People can call the knife a PM2 if they want, that doesn’t make them any less wrong.

But I don't fully get…

Yeah I know that’s usually the case.

Nick, if this is something personal, please just pm me what it is and we can sort it out

I know you are generally a nice and really smart guy (and I mean it!) but this is getting weird.

This is the fourth or fifth time were you state to know the absolute truth about completely subjective matters - I mean if the Millie 2 reminds people more of a Millie or a larger PM 2 IS subjective and depends on what features individual folks find important / defining or not.
Locktype, handle construction,presumably weight, choil-shape, clip DO differ and MIGHT be defining for some, for others not.

All I am saying is: Your opinion is perfectly fine and valid, but mine and Davids and xxx are too. Both are based on valid reasons.

I don't know why you - again - feel like that what YOU think has to be the absolute truth for everyone and can't even be up for debate (literally!). THIS is the attitude I "don't get" - and it is not how this great forum normally works imo (the subject itself is not even important to me. Just a normal and levelled way of discussing things)

It is also a bit annoying that whenever you run out of actual arguments you turn to getting personal or try to be funny.

Anyway: Probably better just not to reply to your "I know the absolute truth" posts anymore.

You post many others actually very good ones anyway (and I mean it again)

[JSumm]

Still need to know if it is Drop Shutty...

I'm guessing this comment was made tongue-in-cheek. That said, the Knife Center video talked about a new bushing pivot. As I understand it, the Military (perhaps only the CQI variant) had the same pivot as the PM2 where the middle is thicker than the parts that go into the liner. This strikes me as a quasi-bushing pivot. When I think of a Spyderco bushing pivot, I think of the Sage 5 and Kapara updates. So I am curious to see if the M2 has the same thing. This is an interesting model, and a bushing pivot would make it more so since I've never handled one before.

Yes very tongue-in-cheek. Very.

And yes, Eric made it sound like it has the pivot bushing that other compression locks have been coming out with. Normally, that is not something I would be concerned about, but on the compression lock I would agree that it is much nicer to have one than not. If you are getting a compression lock, it nice to have a quick and easy one hand close. This is especially true if you are using it for work where you want it out open and closed back in the pocket while you are working and your other hand is occupied.

[Harkwit]

I mean if this is the PM2 XL, then the Para 3 is just the Paramilitary 2 Mini. Or the Lil' Paramilitary 2...

Not to even bring up the whole "Is it the Para 3 or the Paramilitary 3" debate that people seem to have strong opinions about.

who care, just enjoy knaf

[Wartstein]

I mean if this is the PM2 XL, then the Para 3 is just the Paramilitary 2 Mini. Or the Lil' Paramilitary 2...

Not to even bring up the whole "Is it the Para 3 or the Paramilitary 3" debate that people seem to have strong opinions about.

who care, just enjoy knaf

Acrually good point!

As I've said before: For me (to be extra careful: JUST for me ) the Millie 2 is more a Para 4 (so mostly a 4" blade PM2) - just like the Para 3 is mostly a 3" blade PM2.

And right, it does not matter a whole lot.
What matters though and makes this whole forum an interesting and enjoyable place: That people can have and utter differing opinions on subjective matters and those opinions are respected

[Wartstein]

I mean if this is the PM2 XL, then the Para 3 is just the Paramilitary 2 Mini. Or the Lil' Paramilitary 2...

Not to even bring up the whole "Is it the Para 3 or the Paramilitary 3" debate that people seem to have strong opinions about.

who care, just enjoy knaf

Added to my post above: The second part was not directed towards you, Harkwitt, in any way.

[Brummie]

Alright, well it’s a little different isn’t it? I’ll buy one when they CRUCARTA or MAGNACARTA them!

I hope MAGNACARTA knives become a thing, but I doubt we'll see either Millie model within micarta scales. The lack of a liner would make them too weak.

[Evil D]

Alright, well it’s a little different isn’t it? I’ll buy one when they CRUCARTA or MAGNACARTA them!

I hope MAGNACARTA knives become a thing, but I doubt we'll see either Millie model within micarta scales. The lack of a liner would make them too weak.

Well, the Military 2 will have skeletonized nested liners, but since the Para 2 required a change to full non nested liners, it's probably safe to assume that the Military 2 would require the same, especially since they are basically the same exact knife just in different sizes (lmao). I think the Shaman gets around this by having such thick scales.

I wouldn't say it'll never happen but it does seem like furthering the development of an already new design.

[Mushroom]

That’s the thing, I don’t think it’s up for debate or something that’s even open for opinion. It just is what it is. People can call the knife a PM2 if they want, that doesn’t make them any less wrong.

But I don't fully get…

Yeah I know that’s usually the case.

Nick, if this is something personal, please just pm me what it is and we can sort it out

I know you are generally a nice and really smart guy (and I mean it!) but this is getting weird.

This is the fourth or fifth time were you state to know the absolute truth about completely subjective matters - I mean if the Millie 2 reminds people more of a Millie or a larger PM 2 IS subjective and depends on what features individual folks find important / defining or not.
Locktype, handle construction,presumably weight, choil-shape, clip DO differ and MIGHT be defining for some, for others not.

All I am saying is: Your opinion is perfectly fine and valid, but mine and Davids and xxx are too. Both are based on valid reasons.

I don't know why you - again - feel like that what YOU think has to be the absolute truth for everyone and can't even be up for debate (literally!). THIS is the attitude I "don't get" - and it is not how this great forum normally works imo (the subject itself is not even important to me. Just a normal and levelled way of discussing things)

It is also a bit annoying that whenever you run out of actual arguments you turn to getting personal or try to be funny.

Anyway: Probably better just not to reply to your "I know the absolute truth" posts anymore.

You post many others actually very good ones anyway (and I mean it again)

Run out of arguments? My argument hasn’t changed, you’re just unable to properly comprehend the things I say. Please don’t tell me you do because your responses have made it obvious that you don’t.

I’m dismissive of your responses to me now because you constantly misinterpret the things I say and then you respond accordingly. It makes it utterly exhausting to then respond back.

You also move the goal posts and create red herrings in these discussions to avoid any valid points that I make. Or you just go through my posts, literally deleting paragraphs, cherry picking things you want to respond to and the primary point I was trying to make ends up buried in irrelevant walls of text. It’s too stressful for something so trivial.

I will not keep rewording things for you. I made my point clear. The burden of understanding is on you now.