Coming together to find Middle Ground. Delica/Endela/Endura Handles. One Groove to rule them all.?

[JSumm]

Alright, a little tongue and cheek. Sunday Funday!

Seeing a lot of Dream Spydercos and Perfect Spydercos. I was revisiting yet again the handle design of these models. The Endura (substitute Pac Salt) is my favorite working knife. No where near pocket jewelry. Relatively easily replaceable. Long blade with slender profile. What's not to love? Well, some would say the handle.

I know it has been talked about before. Block me, or hide me, or PM if you want. Also, I in no way want to tell Spyderco what they should do. They have the experience and expertise. It is just fun to dream and think of designs then discuss it here. Thank you Spyderco for hosting us!

What if in the next version of the Delica/Endela/Endura they did away with the finger grooves, but left one groove for the first finger? It seems like the grooves are a big turn off for some that will not carry this knife. Then there are some like me that don't mind the grooves, but they don't line up perfectly. Then there are some that like it the way it is. I think the grooves do help with security in hand, but I end up with 2 fingers in the first groove which is tight or 1 finger putting me too far from the edge. Again, it doesn't bother me that much because I love the design. But I do think a more middle ground may open up these designs to more people.

And yes, you can easily mod this yourself, but I would think eventually Spyderco will come out with a revision. So can we come together? I probably already know the answer to that.

Basically a groove where my pointer finger is and neutral behind.

[p_atrick]

I'm one of those people who find the Endura handle to be uncomfortable. But the Delica doesn't bother me at all (I'm kicking myself for not trying it earlier). IMO, the Police 4 has the best Seki handle*. This is not my photo, I believe it came from Knife Works.



* I have not held an Endela or a Rock Jumper (I hear great things about that handle).

[phaust]

I like the Delica and Endura with the current grooves personally.

[Mushroom]

Seems like it would be a pretty easy transition to a neutral handle without any finger bumps. Of course, it would require new molds for the new scales but beyond that, it does not seem like a difficult design change.

The problem I see with this proposal is that anyone with larger fingers than you may not find the new position of the finger groove adequate enough for their own grip. In that case, should the grip just be made completely neutral to fit everyone’s hands? I’m not a big proponent of needing every design to work for every single person though, so I’m not the best person to ask.

In my opinion, starting from the first existing finger groove and going to the back of the handle would be a decent way to “neutralize” the handle shape. The transition could be smoothed out so that it is effectively no longer a finger bump but still maintains a similar front “cockpit” area to the prior generations.

Personally, I like the current designs as is but I would probably still like them with a more neutral handle as well. (No finger grooves) If that’s the direction they took the Delica 5 and Endura 5, I would most likely be okay with it.

[Skar]

I like the way it is.
I feel those grooves that are in place where they are. This is why people enjoy the knives the way they are.

I bet if a change like this happened, a huge cry for the old design would emerge.
Call me psychic, you cannot please 100% of people all of the time. A good aim would be most of the people most of the time.

[Coastal]

I love the Pac Salt, but not its Endura handle. I think a single groove at the front, and no more, would be better for me. Even better than that would be grooves front and back, and a bulge in the middle. The Enuff has the most comfortable handle for me, and it has that design. The Caribbean and Autonomy 2, both very comfortable, have that design. The Stretch, as I hold it (I ignore the choil) has that design. The Rockjumper, which everyone seems to love, has that design. Why not the Endura/Pac Salt?

On the other hand, the Salt, with its Delica handle, is comfortable to me as is. It might be even more comfortable with a groove-bulge-groove handle, but I'm not sure. It's fine as is, but I wouldn't be opposed to changing it.

[JSumm]

The idea would be to make it unique enough to be its own. There are options for neutral grips. Especially if we get to see the Leaf Jumper soon. I think the Police 4 is a great slender, but neutral grip option.

[Evil D]

One groove is certainly better than several that only fit an ideal hand size. My next issue would be the placement of that groove, if it were too far from the blade then it wouldn't work for me.


Ironically enough I've been a big anti-groove guy for some time now, but my favorite Spyderco is an Autonomy and the whole thing is grooves. The important detail is that they fit my hand, so I guess in a way I understand how some people love the Delica and Endura grooves.

[Haunted House]

I’m intrigued.

How about put up some drawings, sketches, photoshop renderings, etc.
It would give us all a visual and be much easier to make sense of.

[Evil D]

I’m intrigued.

How about put up some drawings, sketches, photoshop renderings, etc.
It would give us all a visual and be much easier to make sense of.

I think the Embassy is probably a good example.





The Manix 2 behind the choil also has one index finger groove.

[JSumm]

I’m intrigued.

How about put up some drawings, sketches, photoshop renderings, etc.
It would give us all a visual and be much easier to make sense of.

I think the Embassy is probably a good example.





The Manix 2 behind the choil also has one index finger groove.

Yes! These are good examples. The first finger groove currently is huge and designed for Big Hands the mythical creature of the woods. You end up with two fingers (tight) or one and really far behind the edge.

[Evil D]

I’m intrigued.

How about put up some drawings, sketches, photoshop renderings, etc.
It would give us all a visual and be much easier to make sense of.

I think the Embassy is probably a good example.





The Manix 2 behind the choil also has one index finger groove.

Yes! These are good examples. The first finger groove currently is huge and designed for Big Hands the mythical creature of the woods. You end up with two fingers (tight) or one and really far behind the edge.

That is EXACTLY my issue with it. To be fair though, my Endura doesn't feel too bad gripped towards the rear of that first monster groove, it's almost like it was intended that way because then my other fingers line up with the other grooves a lot better, but the distance from the edge really bugs me. The ricasso is already more than I want and then with the extra handle it's a solid inch distance for me. It does make thumb ramp placement feel better too.

[Soanso McMasters]

I like how the Endela and the Endura get you closer to the blade. That matters more to me than the grooves.

[Bolster]

What if in the next version of the Delica/Endela/Endura they did away with the finger grooves, but left one groove for the first finger? It seems like the grooves are a big turn off for some that will not carry this knife.

Guilty as charged. I would reconsider the D/E/E family if the forward part of the handle gave my index a better resting spot, as you suggested.

[Michael Janich]

In the last issue of the Spyderco byte I addressed the issue of handle design and hand size in detail. Hands are different sizes and fit is always subjective.

Stay safe,

Mike

[Doc Dan]

The Delica works okay for me. The Caly3 and 3.5 are even better. Neither have those awful finger bumps and grooves. I always have to shave them off of my Enduras to get a good feel. I'd rather not do that. The Stretch is really nice, too. It fits.

[ladybug93]

sounds like the manix handle to me. my favorite handle of any pocket knife, but only because it happens to fit my hands perfectly. i can use a delica, but that first hump is right in my middle finger. it's fine for daily stuff, but it's not a design that i find compelling enough to use often. of course, this kind of thing is very subjective, so it only makes sense to make it less specific with neutral handle designs like the caribbean or rock jumper.

[JSumm]

Yes, think this portion of the Manix. Smaller first finger groove and neutral behind. I feel like we have some good neutral grip options and don't think we need full neutral.

[RustyIron]

In the last issue of the Spyderco byte I addressed the issue of handle design and hand size in detail.

What?! I was leaving for a trip when it showed up in my inbox. I need to go find it.

I've never given much thought to knife handle design, but lack of thought won't stop me from chiming in. What exactly is the purpose of the knife handle?

1. To affix the knife blade to the hand.
2. To control the orientation of the blade.

The orientation is controlled mostly with the thumb, and the index finger which provides opposing force. That's why thumb ramps, forward finger choils, and jimping are so valuable.

The majority of the force connecting the handle to the hand is from the strongest finger, the middle finger. I think that's why there is often a hump in the middle of the handle, to maximize the ability of the middle finger, and the outer fingers to a lesser extent, to crush the handle into the palm of the hand.

If the shape of the handle maximizes control of the blade, it's good. Everything else is secondary.

[Evil D]

If the shape of the handle maximizes control of the blade, it's good. Everything else is secondary.

Functionally you're not wrong, I can do anything effectively with an Endura that I can with any other knife that I don't have groove issues with. On the other hand there's absolutely no reason to not want comfort along with function, when it isn't some monumental challenge to achieve. Fortunately for me (and apparently a lot of others) there are other knives I can buy and life goes on, this just serves as discussion and feedback for Spyderco. They may well have more customers who fit the grooves and love them than there are those of us who dislike them, and that's totally fine too.. again, there are many fish in the sea.