Three questions.

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Xformer
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Three questions.

Postby Xformer » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:09 pm

1 : Was a reason given to why the Native 5 LW is so blocky and not molded thinner like a Para 3 LW is ?

2 - I read that the Native 5 LW had an improved backlock compared to a Delica 4. What makes it different ?

3 - I'm starting to read about the Yojumbo and I want to understand what makes the knife appealing to its fans ? I'm curious because that's a very exotic design.

Thanks for the answers.

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Re: Three questions.

Postby ladybug93 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:26 pm

Xformer wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:09 pm
1 : Was a reason given to why the Native 5 LW is so blocky and not molded thinner like a Para 3 LW is ?

2 - I read that the Native 5 LW had an improved backlock compared to a Delica 4. What makes it different ?

3 - I'm starting to read about the Yojumbo and I want to understand what makes the knife appealing to its fans ? I'm curious because that's a very exotic design.

Thanks for the answers.
my guess is that the reason for thicker scales is a lack of liners. if you open the native lw, there are no liners and some ridges inside that give it structural integrity. it's impressive how strong it is for an all plastic handle.

as far as i know, the reason people like the backlock of the native over knives like the delica is because it's thicker. the thicker blade stock and backlock make for a more sturdy interface than what you see on a delica. this makes for a more solid feel in the lockup and less play overall.

i don't have a yojumbo and i don't really want one. i do have a yojimbo and i love it. what sealed the deal for me was watching the video mr. janich made regarding the design. it's always nice to see the designer talk about their own design and get that extra insight. i immediately wanted the yojimbo and have enjoyed carrying it. look up his video on youtube and see what he has to say if you want a better understanding of the model. the yojumbo is just a plus sized yojimbo for people with bigger hands or that need a little extra blade. personally, i find that it changes some of the aesthetic and i find it less appealing than the yojimbo, but that's very subjective.
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ladybug93
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Re: Three questions.

Postby ladybug93 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:31 pm

i just realized you asked about the native vs the para 3 lw for scale thickness... i missed that and was comparing it to the delica. i'm not sure they are actually thinner scales on the para 3, but the contouring might make it seem that way. another reason they might be thicker is to keep it the same thickness as the g10 version for continuity purposes.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby JSumm » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:41 pm

Not sure of the reasoning, but the Para 3 has chamfered edges while the Native 5 is pretty blocky. Same with the Manix.

Manix, Para 3, Native 5
Image

I have only had the Native 5 for a month. I will say the back lock on the Native reminds me of the Chaparral. There is no lock rock. It is very solid feeling. The Chaparral as thin as it is locks up extremely tight. The Seki back locks can have some rock lock. Some are more than others and some are not even noticeable. It is a little hit or miss.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby Naperville » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:13 pm

@Xformer

To understand why the Yojumbo or Yojimbo are as designed, you have to understand the martial arts philosophy of Spyderco's Michael Janich.

Michael Janich has many videos that can be seen on YouTube, and more in depth DVDs can be purchased from him.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ael+Janich

Every tool, or weapon, has a unique fingerprint in the martial arts community. There are martial arts that train in general terms and some that train for specific weapons use. Most of these martial arts are descended from Filipino masters and grandmasters.

Michael Janich targets mobility and function of the attacker's limbs. I am not going to pretend that I can say much more because I have not studied with Michael Janich, but he can/may respond.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby ZrowsN1s » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:19 pm

To the first question, I would say there is a school of thought that says blocky handles are easier to hold onto than rounded ones. Prevents the handle from twisting in your grip. Whether thats true, or thats why it's designed that way is up for debate.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby ladybug93 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:28 pm

JSumm wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:41 pm
thanks for that pic. as i suspected, they look about equal in thickness, but the rounded edges might make it seem thinner in hand.

i wonder if the difference in the backlocks is a tolerances thing. the only "issues" with backlocks i've experienced with spyderco are from the seki factory. some have a little play and feel less secure, although they've never been a problem in use at all. it's almost more like a flex that occurs around the pivot. my native salt lw has had some weird play, but it's more of a clicking into place than a wobble and it's always rock solid once it's settled in.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby yablanowitz » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:31 pm

Regarding question two, in a word, tolerances. The Golden factory holds closer manufacturing tolerances than the Seki makers.

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Re: Three questions.

Postby vivi » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:41 pm

Xformer wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:09 pm

3 - I'm starting to read about the Yojumbo and I want to understand what makes the knife appealing to its fans ? I'm curious because that's a very exotic design.

Thanks for the answers.
it fits my hand like a glove, cuts really well, is extremely easy to sharpen, its put together really well and looks awesome. I like how different it looks without being a gimmicky design, it's very functional.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby James Y » Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:02 pm

The back lock on the Native 5 and the Native Chief are more refined and lock up more solidly (and I think the notch seats a bit deeper) than the Seki back locks. I still like my Seki back locks.

I remember back in the late ‘90s or so, with the original Native, every one I inspected by hand in a knife shop all had lock rock. I’m not sure exactly when the back lock was refined at the Golden factory. I only own 3 Golden back locks; a G10 and an FRN Native 5, and my Native Chief. I’m guessing that the Golden back lock was re-engineered with the introduction of the Native 5, but I could be wrong and it could have been earlier.

Jim

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Re: Three questions.

Postby Ramonade » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:44 am

Native 5 LW : the handle is "blocky" but it's in no regard uncomfortable given a compatible hand size. The corners are rounded, just more abruptly than on a Para 3 LW.
I personnally have used one of my N5 LW for pretty hard work and it hasn't caused hotspots. I see it as the pm2 and para3 ergos. I can use these knives with some force behind the cuts for quite a long time.

That said, I have rather small hands.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby Manifestgtr » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:55 am

“Blocky” is its own ergonomic virtue. In my experience it allows for really precise orientation and feedback. I like contoured designs and tend to prefer them most of the time…but for precision, there’s nothing better than a bit of an angle for your hand to reference against.

It’s the same reason many woodworkers insist on having chisels with octagonal handles. Something about abrupt geometry really lends itself to precision.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby JSumm » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:01 am

Manifestgtr wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:55 am
“Blocky” is its own ergonomic virtue. In my experience it allows for really precise orientation and feedback. I like contoured designs and tend to prefer them most of the time…but for precision, there’s nothing better than a bit of an angle for your hand to reference against.

It’s the same reason many woodworkers insist on having chisels with octagonal handles. Something about abrupt geometry really lends itself to precision.
I think you are on to something. I obviously don't mind blocky. I use my Native 5 and Manix LW quite often. I prefer my Seki models because they do melt in my hand, but I will say my Manix and my Native don't want to roll in my hand when pushing them a little harder. It is nice to have the "different."
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Re: Three questions.

Postby Manixguy@1994 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:18 am

Nothing wrong with blocky. As what has been said the handle presents a presence in your hand it’s not vague or lost . Ergonomics of a handle is purely subjective to each individual . If possible go to a shop and handle different models find your sweet spot . MG2
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Re: Three questions.

Postby ladybug93 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:24 am

i've heard people compare the native and manix to lego blocks. i don't think they are sharp or uncomfortable at all. they fit me perfectly, but everyone's hands are different, i suppose.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1

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Re: Three questions.

Postby vivi » Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:57 am

The Native Chief is the only folder in my collection that felt so squared off on the corners I wanted to sand them down before carrying it. Every time I buy a new Chief I handle it with the stock scales to see if I've changed my mind. Always no.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby zhyla » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:05 am

There’s a small contingent of us that hate the Native 5 blocky handles. I sold mine almost immediately.

I don’t know if there’s a “why” for why they’re so sharp. May be mostly for aesthetic reasons.

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Re: Three questions.

Postby JRinFL » Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:28 pm

zhyla wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:05 am
There’s a small contingent of us that hate the Native 5 blocky handles. I sold mine almost immediately.

I don’t know if there’s a “why” for why they’re so sharp. May be mostly for aesthetic reasons.
I do believe it is part of the design language that Sal and Eric chose for the USA made Spydercos. I like both the old and the new Native handles, but the old are far more comfortable.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby Evil D » Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:54 pm

Manifestgtr wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:55 am
“Blocky” is its own ergonomic virtue. In my experience it allows for really precise orientation and feedback. I like contoured designs and tend to prefer them most of the time…but for precision, there’s nothing better than a bit of an angle for your hand to reference against.

It’s the same reason many woodworkers insist on having chisels with octagonal handles. Something about abrupt geometry really lends itself to precision.



It's definitely not a wrong way to look at it, because going too far into contouring and rounding and you get a KA-BAR, which despite all their otherqualities make absolutely horrible choppers in part because of how round their handles are (I mean, I know they're not designed to be choppers, but the round handle makes them doubly poor at it). I think there's a sweet spot and most Spyderco's do a good job reaching a compromise. The Native 5 (and Manix 2 LW) just isn't a knife I'd want to spend a lot of time whittling with or doing any sort of hard cuttingwith for extended periods. Maybe those are just not jobs that this knife was designed to do. Still, it's a fair question of why, when other similarly sized and built knives are more rounded and would be much more forgiving of long periods of use.
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Re: Three questions.

Postby ladybug93 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:31 pm

i still don't get why anyone has a problem with them. they're not sharp at all and i can't imagine ever needing to squeeze my knife hard enough for it to be a problem. if you are, you're probably using the wrong tool to begin with. it could be a little more rounded, but it's already not uncomfortable in normal pocket knife usage. i mean, it's not a competition chopper.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, PLKIT1


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