m390/20cv vs s30v

[ladybug93]

i know... one of these threads again...

i've been wanting a g10 manix for a long time now and it will probably be my next spyderco purchase (unless the spydiechef, ikuchi, or s35vn resilience are stocked before i pull the trigger). i have some questions before i make my purchase though.

first, i'm not interested in anything too exotic, such as maxamet. i don't need super wear-resistant steel that will be overly difficult to sharpen. i prefer corrosion-resistance to wear resistance, so tool steels are generally out for me.

okay, questions:
if cost were not a factor, are m390 or 20cv a worthy upgrade over the standard s30v?
i'm fine maintaining an edge on s30v with my sharpmaker. will m390 or 20cv be much more difficult to sharpen?
now concerning cost, would m390 or 20cv be worth spending ~$50 more over the same knife in s30v? i know that depends on whether or not i really want those steels, but based on what i've said, is it a good idea or bad?


thanks in advance!

[Crox]

I just got a Manix in m390 with brown g10, so I can share a couple thoughts.

First I don’t have enough experience with it yet to comment on m390. I’m sure others can comment.

It was only 20 bucks more than the standard. Given that, it seemed reasonable to go with what is considered a “better” steel.

However, I was more interested in the skeletonized liners in the exclusive version I got. Where the regular one has full solid liners. I like the weight and balance better. Still is very solid.

To me, there is no more satisfying sound than the Manix locking up.

Good luck with your decision.

[Bolster]

I like steel comparison threads. I'm not informed enough to answer, but will give the question a bump!

[Vaugith]

Depends on what you are doing with the knife.

In my experience m390/20cv has noticibly better corrosion resistance. However they have lower edge stability. That is to say m390/20cv chip more easily when sharpened the same as s30v. M390/20cv have a little more wear resistance, but if you can sharpen S30V without an issue I don't think M390/20CV will give you any trouble.

[danradz]

I can’t answer your question about ease of sharpening, so I’ll skip that part of your question…deferring to others with much more experience than me.

Personally, I like having different steels on my knives. Makes them more interesting. And given that you can get the m390 with brown scales for only $21 more than a standard s30v with black g10…that’s a slam dunk for me. (Not only do you get an interesting steel, but you also get the g10 in a non-standard, but classy, color.)

[Sharp Guy]

Regardless what all the testing shows in my general use they actually seem very similar. It might be considered blasphemy but I think I might actually like S30V better. I know....call me crazy haha. It just seems like S30V has a more bite when I test it on the hardwood blocks that I whittle on. I'm pretty sure their compositions are very similar so it could just be my imagination. I'm also not real concerned about edge retention. So even if M390 is better in that regard it's not enough to be a big deal to me. I get plenty of cutting done with my S30V knives. So, even though I've spent more money for knives with M390/20CV/204P the reality is it's more of a status thing for me vs the desire for increased performance. I'm sure some will probably think I'm crazy but it's the truth.

[Airlsee]

IMO it's not $50 better. I like 20CV/204P/M390 just fine, and the Spyderco knives I have in them are great, but they were sprints/exclusives and weren't actually priced much higher than the standard S30V models.

[S-3 ranch]

Lately I’ve been watching and hunting for something different in steel under $100 , and have gotten some S35vn, 20cv, V-toku2,vg10,bd1n, everything but S30v, and I have to say each one has a unique feeling, when sharpened the exact same, DMT 600 ,then stropping with progressive diamond spray microns, IMO unless you really like spending time sharpening? vg10 , bd1n , S30v
Are fantastic steels for quick update on a strop or crock stick, for my use these are perfect!
I personally will not spend the extra $45-$75 going past those 3 , my next knife is going to be a spydie edge vg10 or S35vn, they’re super easy to sharpen and plenty stainless .
IMO save the coin and rock some S30v, vg10, bd1n these are staples that are hard to beat ( thus the popularity)

[skeeg11]

Lately I’ve been watching and hunting for something different in steel under $100 , and have gotten some S35vn, 20cv, V-toku2,vg10,bd1n, everything but S30v, and I have to say each one has a unique feeling, when sharpened the exact same, DMT 600 ,then stropping with progressive diamond spray microns, IMO unless you really like spending time sharpening? vg10 , bd1n , S30v
Are fantastic steels for quick update on a strop or crock stick, for my use these are perfect!
I personally will not spend the extra $45-$75 going past those 3 , my next knife is going to be a spydie edge vg10 or S35vn, they’re super easy to sharpen and plenty stainless .
IMO save the coin and rock some S30v, vg10, bd1n these are staples that are hard to beat ( thus the popularity)

As a hunter, fisherman and Rancher who lives in a marine environment, have you tried LC200N?

I just picked up an American made UKPK Salt in serrated LC200N for $89.90 landed. Same price for the PE version, too. She can be rode hard and put away wet and doesn't ask me if I love her before I go to bed. I'll just rinse her off in the morning or the next day, next week or next month. Doesn't have the wear resistence of M390 or20CV but LC200N PE is oh so easy to sharpen.

[Doc Dan]

I think Larrin said he does not care for M390 et al. I have a lone Delica in 204P and that is my only experience with it. For some things, the steel does not seem to cut as well. I mean, this knife came sharp enough to cut free hanging toilet paper (there is a picture somewhere on this forum), but cutting a tied plastic grocery bag it seems to want to hang before cutting it cleanly. Whereas, a regular VG-10 Delica that is not as objectively sharp, but still very sharp, will cut through without the slight hang. The 204P will, of course, hold an edge longer. Compare that to S30V, a well balanced steel, that also seems to cut well, and it holds an edge better than VG10, but less long than 204P. I rambled to say that 204P/M390 is good stuff, but I am not sure it is good enough to pay a big premium for.

[Abyss_Fish]

The M390 family doesn't lose its fine edge nearly as fast as S30V, that's good enough for me as my main issue with S30V is how quickly that fine edge flakes away. It's not super tough, but it's otherwise a super low maintenance steel (relatively high wear resistance, easy sharpening, and exceptional corrosion resistance*.)

Should be the standard. I certainly treat it as such. Not to say it's the best for every case, if you don't want your edge to ever chip then get some mid range hrc 3V. But for most light duty "edc"-ish knives you really don't need that, it's why mid range basics like s30v exist. It works great for most things, and you don't have to think about it much.

The only downside to the M390 family is the cost. Which is why I'll endlessly advocate for lc200n/Z-FiNit's use. Edge retention on par with S30V (in my experience), toughness on par with something like 1095, and almost 100% corrosion resistance*. Maybe if it didn't scratch so easy more folks would be more into it.

*As with every steel though, these factors are heavily dependent on heat treatment.

[Gtscotty]

I like S30V, but I do think 20CV is an upgrade in most regards. About the same toughness, but somewhat more wear resistance and much more corrosion resistance. I haven't seen where Larrin stated that he didn't like 20CV, but I did read a thread where he basically said if you're going to pay more for a high wear resistance SS, you might as well skip right to S110V since it has much higher wear resistance and about the same corrosion resistance and toughness.

I must like 20CV as a daily steel since I think 4 of the last 5 knives I've bought have been in that steel. One of the nice things about it is that it doesn't usually seem to command much of a premium over S30V. I think my red M390 Para 3 was $150, and the 20CV Endela that just dropped was $109. Toughness wise, I think it's tough enough for most everyday uses, like a dummy I managed to drop my M390 P3 tip down at an angle into the hardwood flooring the other day... perfect recipe for cracking a tip off, but it came away unscathed. I can't really tell any difference between sharpening 20CV and S30V.

[TkoK83Spy]

I have to agree with the majority here as well. I find that family of steels and S30V to be pretty comparable in all aspects of sharpening, wear resistance and have never had issues with corrosion with either during the hot and humid summer months.

So with that said, I would never pay $30-50 more for a knife in the M390 family on a model that also has S30V available...unless it's a sprint/exclusive that has desirable handle scales I can't pass up, which in that case would probably be a big reason for the price increase on said knife as well.

[bearfacedkiller]

They aren’t that different in my opinion. M390 may give you a little more corrosion resistance and a little more wear resistance but not enough to pay $50 more.

I think toughness is similar but I believe m390 typically has larger carbide size.

[danradz]

I'd pay the $21 premium for the m390/brown g10 combination. (But I like having different steels and scales that aren't just black.)

[Michael Janich]

Dear Crox:

Welcome to the Spyderco Forum.

Stay safe,

Mike

[JRinFL]

Uh oh, LB93 is looking at the man behind the curtain! Like most over-hyped steels, you are unlikely to notice a large difference in the two steels. Sure, in lab tests one out performs the other, but in real life with so many more variables in play, you are not going to see big differences.

Personally, the more I learn about M390/20CV/204P the more disappointed I am in having wasted time and money seeking it out.

[kodai78]

For me, I like to have variety in the collection so I would prioritize a new steel (not better but different) and not black G 10. In my use of my knives AUS-8 performed well enough. Blasphemy I know, but I would buy an older Spyderco in that steel if I came across one. I love the Manix, and the G 10 models have a very authoritative heft and feel to them in hand. Bank vault like. Capable and re-assuring. Any color any steel would be awesome. You cannot go wrong with this choice.

[Gtscotty]

Uh oh, LB93 is looking at the man behind the curtain! Like most over-hyped steels, you are unlikely to notice a large difference in the two steels. Sure, in lab tests one out performs the other, but in real life with so many more variables in play, you are not going to see big differences.

Personally, the more I learn about M390/20CV/204P the more disappointed I am in having wasted time and money seeking it out.

I understand that in daily use, most decent stainless steels are fairly indistinguishable, but I'm curious what you've learned about M390 in particular that makes you so regretful about having purchased blades in that steel?

[JRinFL]

Uh oh, LB93 is looking at the man behind the curtain! Like most over-hyped steels, you are unlikely to notice a large difference in the two steels. Sure, in lab tests one out performs the other, but in real life with so many more variables in play, you are not going to see big differences.

Personally, the more I learn about M390/20CV/204P the more disappointed I am in having wasted time and money seeking it out.

I understand that in daily use, most decent stainless steels are fairly indistinguishable, but I'm curious what you've learned about M390 in particular that makes you so regretful about having purchased blades in that steel?

I learned that in my use the increased cost was a waste of money, same with S110v. I got caught up in the hype and failed to think it through.
If a knife I liked was only available in M390, etc., I would not avoid it due to the steel, but If another sprint were to be dropped in M390 of a knife I already owned, I would not buy one just for the steel.