Combo Comp/Linerlock

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
aicolainen
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#21

Post by aicolainen »

I tend to agree with Wartstein here. Safety is a wholistic approach, so even though one aspect of a specific safety feature is objectively safer, the overall safety is not determined by this aspect/feature alone.
In the end it comes down to a subjective evaluation of the sum of these objectively more or less safe features to decide what is the safest option for each specific user in each specific use case.

Enough about that, regarding the topic… I think it’s doable, but with more quirks than first meets the eye, perhaps.
My inner uncle Randy tells me it’s not a feasible business case, though. Too much engineering time for practically no demand, and big risk of confusion marketing wise.
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#22

Post by Wartstein »

aicolainen wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:21 am
I tend to agree with Wartstein here. Safety is a wholistic approach, so even though one aspect of a specific safety feature is objectively safer, the overall safety is not determined by this aspect/feature alone.
In the end it comes down to a subjective evaluation of the sum of these objectively more or less safe features to decide what is the safest option for each specific user in each specific use case.

....
This, but not only this.

Actually on a knife like the Millie - WITH a choil - the linerlock might technically be the SAFEST solution "for the fingers".
Why? Cause the question "are the fingers in the bladepath?" is the wrong one in the first place, and it always puzzles me that people emphasize it that much.

The right question would be: "(How easily) can the fingers get hit by the EDGE"?

With the linerlock on the Millie it is like this: Just by doing what one has to do ANYWAY and in any case to activate the lock = press the lock tab, the finger (thumb) is automatically in a position where it would be hit by the choil (not the edge), stop the blade there, and all fingers are perfectly safe! Not even a special method necessary here, almost no possibility for a user error, and the knife remains natural and secure in hand (actually this is pretty much also true for the choil-less Tenacious, if you watch my vid in a previous post)
With a comp.lock (generally also very safe for the fingers of course) the "fingers out of the blade path" method is the a bit akward pinch grip, where a user error still is very unlikely, but not totally so (one or more fingers could accidently not get fully removed from the downside of the handle where the edge hits).Plus the knife is not so safe in hand anymore.

I just don´t really understand it, unless we´re talking cheap, bad linerlocks on folders without choils.
And the ingeniously simple and convenient linerlock gets a bad rep (and perhaps little use in higher end Spydies) cause there is that "killer argument" "fingers in the blade path", even though this is not relevant on a knife like the Millie...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#23

Post by JacksonKnives »

Repeating over and over that someone does not understand your argument is a good sign that you yourself are not understanding the argument on the other side.
—Daniel Jackson
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#24

Post by Wartstein »

JacksonKnives wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:41 pm
Repeating over and over that someone does not understand your argument is a good sign that you yourself are not understanding the argument on the other side.
?? ... but I literally said I DO understand and believe the argument "of the other side" that the comp.lock is very safe (so I AM on "that side" too, I do think and have experienced that the comp.lock is a safe solution ).

What I don't understand is the lack of differentiation when it comes to disucssing (different kinds of) linerlocks. And as a consequence: By logic and trying (see my reasoning above); Why on a Spyderco knife designed ike the Millie(!) the linerlock would be less safe than the comp.lock. It is, by design, almost impossible there to activate the locktab, close the knife and get cut.

I am not talking about people who are active on this forum... but those many who are perhaps more unexperienced who just lurk here a bit, who perhaps never compared on a knife with choil a good Spyderco linerlock to a comp.lock: They read (and hear and see on platforms like youtube) and believe what gets "repeated again and again":
: "but, but, but the linerlock is inferior and less safe cause, heaven forbid, the fingers are in the blade path". When in fact it really needs some thinking, logic, differentiation and reflection
: It makes a huge difference how that linerlock is designed (quality, choil/ricasso or not...), which can make the difference from extremely safe (Spyderco linerlock and choil) to danger for the fingers (badly made cheapo knife). But when discussing and evaluating linerlocks, this differentiation often just does not happen at all, which is a bit confusing and annoying.
Not "are the fingers in the blade path" is what counts, but "can they actually get cut by the edge".

To give a (crude) analogy:
Let´s say there is a lake and dense wood around it
People might say without any differentiation: "It is always better to go through the dense wood than over the lake, cause doing the latter you will drown / "Lake = dangerous"
When in fact it really matters how "this lake is constructed": Is it very, very shallow for example and wading through it not any worse than crossing the dense woood? Or is it wintertime and the lake is solidly frozen?
This is how linerlocks often get "discussed", just like "Lake = dangerous. Period". Can be a bit annoying sometimes.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#25

Post by aicolainen »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 pm
JacksonKnives wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:41 pm
Repeating over and over that someone does not understand your argument is a good sign that you yourself are not understanding the argument on the other side.
?? ... but I literally said I DO understand and believe the argument "of the other side" that the comp.lock is very safe (so I AM on "that side" too, I do think and have experienced that the comp.lock is a safe solution ).

8< —————

I am not talking about people who are active on this forum... but those many who are perhaps more unexperienced who just lurk here a bit, who perhaps never compared on a knife with choil a good Spyderco linerlock to a comp.lock: They read (and hear and see on platforms like youtube) and believe what gets "repeated again and again":
: "but, but, but the linerlock is inferior and less safe cause, heaven forbid, the fingers are in the blade path". When in fact it really needs some thinking, logic, differentiation and reflection
: It makes a huge difference how that linerlock is designed (quality, choil/ricasso or not...), which can make the difference from extremely safe (Spyderco linerlock and choil) to danger for the fingers (badly made cheapo knife). But when discussing and evaluating linerlocks, this differentiation often just does not happen at all, which is a bit confusing and annoying.
Not "are the fingers in the blade path" is what counts, but "can they actually get cut by the edge".
This is the internet at its ”best”, Wartstein.
Fortunately your efforts are not in vain. You don’t have to win the discussion for your arguments to be of value.
Smart people will read all the arguments and make up their own mind, and the not so bright people wont even see it, as they will be over at Facebook looking for advice anyways.
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#26

Post by Mushroom »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 pm
JacksonKnives wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:41 pm
Repeating over and over that someone does not understand your argument is a good sign that you yourself are not understanding the argument on the other side.
?? ... but I literally said I DO understand and believe the argument "of the other side" that the comp.lock is very safe
If that's your interpretation of what I've been saying, you're obviously not understanding what I'm saying.
-Nick :bug-red
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#27

Post by Wartstein »

Mushroom wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:48 am
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 pm
JacksonKnives wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:41 pm
Repeating over and over that someone does not understand your argument is a good sign that you yourself are not understanding the argument on the other side.
?? ... but I literally said I DO understand and believe the argument "of the other side" that the comp.lock is very safe
If that's your interpretation of what I've been saying, you're obviously not understanding what I'm saying.
Man, I was literally not talking/replying to and of YOU in this post! (Did this instead in an I think friendly and polite dedicated post)
It begins to feel to my like while I try to have a factual discussion here actually others try to drag this onto a personal level.
You seem not to be able to let this go.


- I understand that the comp.lock is very safe also for the undisputable fact that here the fingers can always be out of the blade path.
- I stated the also pretty undisputable fact that what counts in the end is not "if the fingers are in the blade path" but "how easily they actually can get hit by the edge"
- Considering this I gave I think an at least not crazy reasoning why a linerlock with a choil can be as safe as a comp.lock. Everyone can read this, try by themselves and then decide if there is merit to what I laid out or not or to some part.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#28

Post by dj moonbat »

The problem with the button comp lock is that you have to have a choil or other cutout at the base of the blade to make room for the button. If instead the comp lock were implemented as faux liner lock, that button cutout wouldn't need to be there.
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#29

Post by bobnikon »

How about a double lock. Both locks present but completely separate. The comp lock is the first to engage when opening, about 15ish deg before the liner lock which is the final lock-up.

That way if the liner lock ever failed you would have a safety/back-up.

On closing the liner lock is prevented from dropping the blade on a finger when disengaged because the comp lock (a really strong second detent?) catches the blade after 15ish deg. Then you can fully close it with everything out of the way.

This gives you the best (and worst) of both worlds, though it would take longer to close for sure.

Can't see a practical reason to do it, but sounds like a fun fidget toy...???
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#30

Post by Mushroom »

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:08 am
Mushroom wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:48 am
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 pm
JacksonKnives wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:41 pm
Repeating over and over that someone does not understand your argument is a good sign that you yourself are not understanding the argument on the other side.
?? ... but I literally said I DO understand and believe the argument "of the other side" that the comp.lock is very safe
If that's your interpretation of what I've been saying, you're obviously not understanding what I'm saying.
Man, I was literally not talking/replying to and of YOU in this post! (Did this instead in an I think friendly and polite dedicated post)
It begins to feel to my like while I try to have a factual discussion here actually others try to drag this onto a personal level.
You seem not to be able to let this go.


- I understand that the comp.lock is very safe also for the undisputable fact that here the fingers can always be out of the blade path.
- I stated the also pretty undisputable fact that what counts in the end is not "if the fingers are in the blade path" but "how easily they actually can get hit by the edge"
- Considering this I gave I think an at least not crazy reasoning why a linerlock with a choil can be as safe as a comp.lock. Everyone can read this, try by themselves and then decide if there is merit to what I laid out or not or to some part.
You did but you also ended that post with "lets leave it here" then posted two more responses explaining nearly the same thing.

"- I understand that the comp.lock is very safe also for the undisputable fact that here the fingers can always be out of the blade path."

Ok, I'm glad because that was essentially my original point.

"- I stated the also pretty undisputable fact that what counts in the end is not "if the fingers are in the blade path" but "how easily they actually can get hit by the edge""

That is not an indisputable fact, that's entirely subjective. They're both valid questions but which one counts more for one person might not mean nearly as much for another person.


Wartstein wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:21 pm
aicolainen wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:21 am
I tend to agree with Wartstein here. Safety is a wholistic approach, so even though one aspect of a specific safety feature is objectively safer, the overall safety is not determined by this aspect/feature alone.
In the end it comes down to a subjective evaluation of the sum of these objectively more or less safe features to decide what is the safest option for each specific user in each specific use case.

....
This, but not only this.

Actually on a knife like the Millie - WITH a choil - the linerlock might technically be the SAFEST solution "for the fingers".
Why? Cause the question "are the fingers in the bladepath?" is the wrong one in the first place, and it always puzzles me that people emphasize it that much.

The right question would be: "(How easily) can the fingers get hit by the EDGE"?

With the linerlock on the Millie it is like this: Just by doing what one has to do ANYWAY and in any case to activate the lock = press the lock tab, the finger (thumb) is automatically in a position where it would be hit by the choil (not the edge), stop the blade there, and all fingers are perfectly safe! Not even a special method necessary here, almost no possibility for a user error, and the knife remains natural and secure in hand (actually this is pretty much also true for the choil-less Tenacious, if you watch my vid in a previous post)
With a comp.lock (generally also very safe for the fingers of course) the "fingers out of the blade path" method is the a bit akward pinch grip, where a user error still is very unlikely, but not totally so (one or more fingers could accidently not get fully removed from the downside of the handle where the edge hits).Plus the knife is not so safe in hand anymore.

I just don´t really understand it, unless we´re talking cheap, bad linerlocks on folders without choils.
And the ingeniously simple and convenient linerlock gets a bad rep (and perhaps little use in higher end Spydies) cause there is that "killer argument" "fingers in the blade path", even though this is not relevant on a knife like the Millie...
How are you going to agree with what he said but then in the next sentence deem one lock to be the "safest" ?

I was never talking about overall safety. Just two features that, apparently, the three of us now agree can be objectively safer or less safe than another.

I was never talking about any specific model, neither the Tenacious nor Military. Those are two liner lock models you cherrypicked to show me that you can close them without cutting yourself. Not all liner locks are made the same though and they don't all have those features that make it easier to prevent the cutting edge from contacting your finger. (A choil, ricasso, flipper tab, etc.)

I was never specifically talking about "cheap, bad linerlocks on folders without choils" but if they're liner locks, there's no reason why they shouldn't be included in the "liner lock" category.

I don't think liner locks necessarily get a bad rap just because of the "fingers in the blade path" argument. I think a large part of that is because liner locks are kept closed with a small ball bearing detent that some users have experienced failing, causing the knife to open when it was not supposed to. Same thing applies to the compression locks too though.

"(How easily) can the fingers get hit by the EDGE"?

This question applies to all folding knives, regardless of their lock.

I personally don't find operating a compression lock to be awkward at all but thats just my opinion. Much like it's your opinion that it is awkward to close. You say "One or more fingers could accidently not get fully removed from the downside of the handle where the edge hits" - This statement also applies to all folding knives, regardless of their lock type.

---

Here's an analogy: Think of the road as a liner lock, the sidewalk as a compression lock, and cars as the blade. Both the road and sidewalk are technically safe places to walk but your chances of getting hit by a car are increased if you're walking in the road.


I will leave this by reiterating my original point without using the word safety. The liner lock requires the user to put their finger in the path of the closing blade. The compression lock allows the user to keep their fingers out of the path of the closing blade.
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#31

Post by Sharp Guy »

JacksonKnives wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:41 pm
Repeating over and over that someone does not understand your argument is a good sign that you yourself are not understanding the argument on the other side.
It's also one of the reasons he has over 10,000 posts in 3 years ;)
Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most!
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#32

Post by Wartstein »

Mushroom wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:01 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:08 am
Mushroom wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:48 am
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 pm
You did but you also ended that post with "lets leave it here" then posted two more responses explaining nearly the same thing.

"- I understand that the comp.lock is very safe also for the undisputable fact that here the fingers can always be out of the blade path."

Ok, I'm glad because that was essentially my original point.

"- I stated the also pretty undisputable fact that what counts in the end is not "if the fingers are in the blade path" but "how easily they actually can get hit by the edge""

That is not an indisputable fact, that's entirely subjective. They're both valid questions but which one counts more for one person might not mean nearly as much for another person.
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:21 pm
aicolainen wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:21 am
How are you going to agree with what he said but then in the next sentence deem one lock to be the "safest" ?

I was never talking about overall safety. Just two features that, apparently, the three of us now agree can be objectively safer or less safe than another.

I was never talking about any specific model, neither the Tenacious nor Military. Those are two liner lock models you cherrypicked to show me that you can close them without cutting yourself. Not all liner locks are made the same though and they don't all have those features that make it easier to prevent the cutting edge from contacting your finger. (A choil, ricasso, flipper tab, etc.)

I was never specifically talking about "cheap, bad linerlocks on folders without choils" but if they're liner locks, there's no reason why they shouldn't be included in the "liner lock" category.

I don't think liner locks necessarily get a bad rap just because of the "fingers in the blade path" argument. I think a large part of that is because liner locks are kept closed with a small ball bearing detent that some users have experienced failing, causing the knife to open when it was not supposed to. Same thing applies to the compression locks too though.

"(How easily) can the fingers get hit by the EDGE"?

This question applies to all folding knives, regardless of their lock.

I personally don't find operating a compression lock to be awkward at all but thats just my opinion. Much like it's your opinion that it is awkward to close. You say "One or more fingers could accidently not get fully removed from the downside of the handle where the edge hits" - This statement also applies to all folding knives, regardless of their lock type.
.....
I will leave this by reiterating my original point without using the word safety. The liner lock requires the user to put their finger in the path of the closing blade. The compression lock allows the user to keep their fingers out of the path of the closing blade.
1.) I DID leave it there. I even apologized that I did not see your comment in the right context, thanked you for the discussion and did not discuss with you anymore. I did reply though to acolainen, totally unrelated to you. It was you who started this again, by telling me that I would interpreting something you said and not understanding it. While, again, this was not at all about you anymore.

2.) I never said anything else than that "I understand that the comp.lock is very safe also for the undisputable fact that here the fingers can always be out of the blade path."
All I said is that the comp.lock, though very safe, is not necessarily safer than the linerlock

3.) Concerning if the fingers can get cut by the edge: How is it NOT an indisputable fact that here it counts more how "easily the fingers can actually get hit (and cut) by the edge" than "if they are in the blade path"?! I mean, really?! Fingers can technically be in the blade path (not EDGE path) but never get cut, while, well, when they get hit by the edge they DO get cut...

4.) I never deemed one lock as the "safest". What I said (literally): "Actually on a knife like the Millie - WITH a choil - the linerlock might technically be the SAFEST solution "for the fingers".
"Might" is important here, and I offered food for thought why this MIGHT be the case: Because, again: Just by activating a Millie linerlock you always and almost unavoidable create a "safety stop". One almost can´t press the locktab without putting the thumb in a place where it will be hit by the choil and keep all fingers safe. So no special method is required, but simply just using the lock... pretty much also a "definition of safety", right?

5.) I don´t find the "comp. lock awkward to use" generally. I do find the pinch grip fingers all the time out of the blade path method a bit awkward (especially with cold, wet hands) but I use this one never anyway. Especially on comp.locks with choils there are imho several better and safer methods (for me!)

6.) SURE the question "how easily can the fingers get hit by the EDGE" applies to all lock types! This is what I am saying all the time! It is pretty obviously even the essential questions and not if the fingers "are in the blade path" when it comes to how safe the fingers are, and how, well,... "easily they can get hit by the EDGE!"... all I am saying is that one has to DIFFERENTIATE concerning linerlocks. Many (and I think almost all by Spyderco, at least if they have a choil) are not less safe than a comp.lock (reasoning see above: Built in safety feature: Finger that presses the locktab)

7.) Sorry and again: Concerning safety for the fingers it does not really matter if they are "in the path of the blade". For me pretty obviously what matters is how likely the edge will cut them, For me the user error possibility for THAT happening is very, very low on a comp.lock when using the fingers out of the blade path method. As low or even lower though on a linerlock with choil. Almost impossible to make a user error there when activating the lock.

8.) Anyway, all this was not about YOU and your comment anymore as soon as I asked if we could leave it there.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#33

Post by Wartstein »

Sharp Guy wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:40 pm
JacksonKnives wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:41 pm
Repeating over and over that someone does not understand your argument is a good sign that you yourself are not understanding the argument on the other side.
It's also one of the reasons he has over 10,000 posts in 3 years ;)
Can´t deny that I post too much and use way too many words in order to express what I mean (in English, not my mothertongue, that is) ;) I am honestly working on that! :worried

JacksonKnives comment was pretty incongruous (I hope this is the correct (and not an offensive) English term) though.
Never said, let alone repeated that someone would not understand my argument, I do understand, respect and to a large part even share the argument "of the other side" (except there is not really "an other side" for me), just happen to have a differing opinion on a certain aspect of linerlock-safety. And gave, I think, at least comprehensible reasons for that (regardless if one shares my opinion or not).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#34

Post by Sharp Guy »

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:21 pm
Sharp Guy wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:40 pm
JacksonKnives wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:41 pm
Repeating over and over that someone does not understand your argument is a good sign that you yourself are not understanding the argument on the other side.
It's also one of the reasons he has over 10,000 posts in 3 years ;)
Can´t deny that I post too much and use way too many words in order to express what I mean (in English, not my mothertongue, that is) ;) I am honestly working on that! :worried

JacksonKnives comment was pretty incongruous (I hope this is the correct (and not an offensive) English term) though.
Never said, let alone repeated that someone would not understand my argument, I do understand, respect and to a large part even share the argument "of the other side" (except there is not really "an other side" for me), just happen to have a differing opinion on a certain aspect of linerlock-safety. And gave, I think, at least comprehensible reasons for that (regardless if one shares my opinion or not).
You're fine! I'm just teasing you. Carry on with the discussion. I shouldn't have interfered
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#35

Post by Mushroom »

It's clear that there is a lot being lost in translation here, by both of us.

Like you said, anyone that feels like reading through these posts (Good luck :grimace) can decide for themselves if any valid points were made by either of us.
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#36

Post by Wartstein »

Sharp Guy wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:22 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:21 pm
Sharp Guy wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:40 pm
JacksonKnives wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:41 pm
You're fine! I'm just teasing you. Carry on with the discussion. I shouldn't have interfered
Mushroom wrote: It's clear that there is a lot being lost in translation here, by both of us.

Like you said, anyone that feels like reading through these posts (Good luck :grimace) can decide for themselves if any valid points were made by either of us.

Friends, I clearly can get carried away sometimes when discussing Spydercos, and this is one of these cases. Sorry for that!
In the end it´s "just" knives (actually even just locktypes... :grin-sweat ) ;)

I am not always certain indeed if I for one I can make 100% clear what I mean in English and also if I get 100% what a person tries to tell me in this language.
It may sound as if I - and probably some other non English speaking forum members - am quite sufficient in this language. Even true to some extent, but one problem I have: I practically never really speak directly to Native speakers, and so I never get any direct real life reaction and also correction. English is a pretty "artificial" language to me, I can´t estimate if what I write sounds natural ,weird, old school, comprehensible, whatever...

This combined with a real passion for Spyderco, having literally no one to talk to in my real life who is interested in folders even just slightly, being active on no other platform on the internet at all (including facebook, instagram and the like) and that I don´t like to "just talk" but to explain, back up, and show that what I say has some "substance" coming from honest reflection and experience can lead to exchanges like the one in this thread.

/ That being said:
I do think there might be one or two interesting points for some, especially people rather new to knives (well, yes, IF they have the stamina to read through this thread.. :') ). And be it only that a few (generally, not only concerning locks!) decide to try for themselves and than decide if a certain feature on a certain knife is really that good or bad as they thought (or heard) for them personally. So in this case: Come to love the comp.lock even more or perhaps open up to linerlock Spydies a bit more.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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JacksonKnives
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#37

Post by JacksonKnives »

Wartstein wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:14 am
[words]
I'm very happy that nobody here seems angry about being misunderstood or contradicted. Exasperated and confused, sure, but that's easy enough to move past.

Wartstein, I really value your contributions to this forum. I don't always agree with you, but you often help me see a problem from a different angle and that's always valuable.

I've been entertained by this discussion and I like thinking about new approaches to Spyderco modifications/revisions.

I spend a lot of time trying to understand why communication breaks down. (Partly since I've been working with my dad in a family business most of my life, and we don't communicate as well as we'd like despite our sincere efforts.) That's why I'm still watching this thread and why I posted what I did above. I have typed out a few essays and then deleted them, and I'm trying to keep what I post short so as not to drag people through my thought process which would be a waste of everyone's time.

That said, at the risk of not following my own advice: If you find yourself in an argumentative discussion where you repeat something more than once, the other person almost certainly understands exactly what you're saying and still disagrees with you.

Stating that something is of higher value to you or should be of higher value to everyone will almost never convince anyone else to change their own values. Changing priorities and beliefs, assuming it would be helpful to change them, almost always requires more than understanding the facts.
—Daniel Jackson
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Wartstein
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Re: Combo Comp/Linerlock

#38

Post by Wartstein »

JacksonKnives wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:57 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:14 am
[words]
I'm very happy that nobody here seems angry about being misunderstood or contradicted. Exasperated and confused, sure, but that's easy enough to move past.

Wartstein, I really value your contributions to this forum. I don't always agree with you, but you often help me see a problem from a different angle and that's always valuable.

..... (snip)

That said, at the risk of not following my own advice: If you find yourself in an argumentative discussion where you repeat something more than once, the other person almost certainly understands exactly what you're saying and still disagrees with you.

Stating that something is of higher value to you or should be of higher value to everyone will almost never convince anyone else to change their own values. Changing priorities and beliefs, assuming it would be helpful to change them, almost always requires more than understanding the facts.


"JacksonKnives", thanks a lot for your reply, I really appreciate it and makes me see you as one great example of how constructive, decent and non resentful people on this unusually good place in the internet actually are in the end!

Thanks also for your evaluation of my inputs here! I´ll certainly think about this and keep it in mind!

As said:
I guess one reason why I sometimes repeat thoughts too often in each time slightly differing ways, is that I am not always sure if my English is good enough to make clear what I mean in just one try...
And in this thread I actually had the feeling that I added new points, details and arguments when posting more. Looking back this was probably not much the case though... :smirk
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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