I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

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vivi
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby vivi » Mon May 17, 2021 12:49 am

eventhorizon wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 4:32 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 4:19 pm
eventhorizon wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 4:12 pm
Just got my REX45 Native Chief.

Since this is my first Spyderco backlock... is it normal for the spring to perceptibly protrude over the backspacer when the knife is open? They're perfectly flush when it's closed.
I'd say 25% of my Spyderco lockbacks have lock bars that don't seat flush. One of my Rex Chiefs is perfect there, the other is off enough I considered returning it.

I'm usually not too picky about blade centering and other more cosmetic flaws, but I'm not a big fan of how the lock release feels during operation when they're real off.

That sure sounds like a lot. Not sure how I feel about this yet.
Here is a comparison with my user and the unused back-up.

Image
Image
Image
Image
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby VooDooChild » Mon May 17, 2021 1:06 am

? Thats suprising to hear.

I have a lot of spyderco lockbacks and I dont think any of them are off. If some are, they are not off by that much. I know all my Golden made ones are fine.

Edit.
Yeah I just checked 30 or so backlocks.
A pacific salt 1 and an endura 4 were off, and still not too bad.
An atlantic salt was off in the closed position.

Everything else was fine, or not off enough for me to notice or care.
Last edited by VooDooChild on Mon May 17, 2021 1:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby VooDooChild » Mon May 17, 2021 1:27 am

Double post
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby eventhorizon » Mon May 17, 2021 2:55 am

vivi wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 12:49 am
Here is a comparison with my user and the unused back-up.

Image
Image
Image
Image



On mine it's the other way around.

Image

This baffles me. It's what I consider the exact opposite of "tight" tolerances.

I keep getting this from Spyderco... basically every single knife I bought had flaws like this. I'm not exaggerating, it's been every single one. Because I like the designs I force myself into condoning the obvious, but once again I'm just baffled.
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Brock O Lee
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby Brock O Lee » Mon May 17, 2021 3:48 am

I wonder if the lock will seat deeper into the blade tang as it wears in? I would check that lock bar and lock well in the blade tang for burrs.
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby eventhorizon » Mon May 17, 2021 4:05 am

...I tried to take it apart for inspection, but I can't - the rear screw has been threadlocked to death.
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby kobold » Mon May 17, 2021 4:06 am

I don't fidget and I think the back lock and its derivatives are the best locks. I only have experience with Golden and Taichung made stuff - my three Chaparrals, five Natives and two Chiefs are all perfect. No misalignment or blade play, and are even flickable, even though I prefer (and recommend) the sweep.
Even an S90V Chief that had blade play and was very off center, and which I left in the shop at first, I went back and bought it anyway, because I realized the pivot screw just needed tightening.
So, ten out of ten is a good tally.
Last edited by kobold on Mon May 17, 2021 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Military: S90V, S110V, Fluted Ti. PM2 & Para 3: Maxamet. Native 5: Rex45, LC200N SE, S35VN SE, Spy27, Fluted Ti. Native Chief: S90V, Rex45.
Chaparral: Raffir Noble, Birdseye Maple. Tasman Salt 2 SE, Caribbean Sheepfoot SE., SpydieChef, Swayback, Manix2 S110V, GB2, Sage 1 Maxamet.
Incoming: Native 5 fluted CF, Dragonfly SE H1
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby kobold » Mon May 17, 2021 4:09 am

eventhorizon wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 4:05 am
...I tried to take it apart for inspection, but I can't - the rear screw has been threadlocked to death.

You can heat the screw with a soldering iron to liquefy the thread locker. Or dip it into boiling water, but that is barely hot enough.
Military: S90V, S110V, Fluted Ti. PM2 & Para 3: Maxamet. Native 5: Rex45, LC200N SE, S35VN SE, Spy27, Fluted Ti. Native Chief: S90V, Rex45.
Chaparral: Raffir Noble, Birdseye Maple. Tasman Salt 2 SE, Caribbean Sheepfoot SE., SpydieChef, Swayback, Manix2 S110V, GB2, Sage 1 Maxamet.
Incoming: Native 5 fluted CF, Dragonfly SE H1
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby kobold » Mon May 17, 2021 4:16 am

Looks bad. I would definitely try to defeat the thread locker (heat) and take them apart to clean them, there might be something stuck in there causing this.
Military: S90V, S110V, Fluted Ti. PM2 & Para 3: Maxamet. Native 5: Rex45, LC200N SE, S35VN SE, Spy27, Fluted Ti. Native Chief: S90V, Rex45.
Chaparral: Raffir Noble, Birdseye Maple. Tasman Salt 2 SE, Caribbean Sheepfoot SE., SpydieChef, Swayback, Manix2 S110V, GB2, Sage 1 Maxamet.
Incoming: Native 5 fluted CF, Dragonfly SE H1
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby kobold » Mon May 17, 2021 4:23 am

eventhorizon wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 2:55 am

I keep getting this from Spyderco... basically every single knife I bought had flaws like this. I'm not exaggerating, it's been every single one. Because I like the designs I force myself into condoning the obvious, but once again I'm just baffled.

That is very unlucky.
Are you buying them from a reputable dealer? Are they all from the same shop?
Military: S90V, S110V, Fluted Ti. PM2 & Para 3: Maxamet. Native 5: Rex45, LC200N SE, S35VN SE, Spy27, Fluted Ti. Native Chief: S90V, Rex45.
Chaparral: Raffir Noble, Birdseye Maple. Tasman Salt 2 SE, Caribbean Sheepfoot SE., SpydieChef, Swayback, Manix2 S110V, GB2, Sage 1 Maxamet.
Incoming: Native 5 fluted CF, Dragonfly SE H1
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby eventhorizon » Mon May 17, 2021 4:52 am

kobold wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 4:23 am
eventhorizon wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 2:55 am

I keep getting this from Spyderco... basically every single knife I bought had flaws like this. I'm not exaggerating, it's been every single one. Because I like the designs I force myself into condoning the obvious, but once again I'm just baffled.

That is very unlucky.
Are you buying them from a reputable dealer? Are they all from the same shop?

Various dealers, mostly in Germany or elsewhere in Europe... all of them really helpful when I decided to return a knife. Trusted.

At one point I even assumed somehow there just have to be more "undeclared 2nds" floating around here in shops, at dealers, because 12 out of 12 (that's my Spyderco count right now) can't be just bad luck.
I have quite a few other knives from various brands ...and never had to return one of them because of flaws.
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby kobold » Mon May 17, 2021 5:11 am

Crazy luck. I am also in Europe, I bought 90% of my Spys from the same shop, but always in person to avoid disappointments. The rest is ebay, second hand or another local shop.

I actually don't know what dealers usually do with all the knives people return to them? Do they just try to pass them on again and/or they go on sale eventually?
Military: S90V, S110V, Fluted Ti. PM2 & Para 3: Maxamet. Native 5: Rex45, LC200N SE, S35VN SE, Spy27, Fluted Ti. Native Chief: S90V, Rex45.
Chaparral: Raffir Noble, Birdseye Maple. Tasman Salt 2 SE, Caribbean Sheepfoot SE., SpydieChef, Swayback, Manix2 S110V, GB2, Sage 1 Maxamet.
Incoming: Native 5 fluted CF, Dragonfly SE H1
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby Evil D » Mon May 17, 2021 5:29 am

eventhorizon wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 4:52 am
kobold wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 4:23 am
eventhorizon wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 2:55 am

I keep getting this from Spyderco... basically every single knife I bought had flaws like this. I'm not exaggerating, it's been every single one. Because I like the designs I force myself into condoning the obvious, but once again I'm just baffled.

That is very unlucky.
Are you buying them from a reputable dealer? Are they all from the same shop?

Various dealers, mostly in Germany or elsewhere in Europe... all of them really helpful when I decided to return a knife. Trusted.

At one point I even assumed somehow there just have to be more "undeclared 2nds" floating around here in shops, at dealers, because 12 out of 12 (that's my Spyderco count right now) can't be just bad luck.
I have quite a few other knives from various brands ...and never had to return one of them because of flaws.



It's either they miss these "flaws" or they do not consider them to be "flaws". Every company has to draw a line somewhere when it comes to quality control and if the knife is otherwise functional then maybe they don't consider this a defect. I don't blame you for not liking it, I'd want them to be flush too. I guess it's a return it or live with it deal. My Rock Jumper is sunk down a bit at the rear of the lock bar and slightly raises at the front when closed and pretty level when open but also doesn't meet up flush at the blade when open. I assume these parts will wear together over time and this sort of thing can get better or worse depending on the situation.
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby eventhorizon » Mon May 17, 2021 6:33 am

Maybe. But on a €210 (=$250) knife from a brand claiming to have tight tolerances for me there's no way around that that here is a "flaw"... and I'd consider Vivi's Chief flawed as well. Wouldn't you?

Just for comparision: I handled half a dozen examples of the Manly Peak, which is a very comparable knife, and none of them showed anything that I'd consider a "flaw" like that on my Chief. The S90V Peak comes at under $100.
And of course I have higher expectations for a higher priced knife... shouldn't I?


Like I said... I love the design, it's what makes Spyderco stand out for me, but that makes me condone things more often than I should. I just get the impression their reputation kinda makes them become sloppy here and there, because people tend to be more forgiving.
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby Evil D » Mon May 17, 2021 7:02 am

eventhorizon wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 6:33 am
Maybe. But on a €210 (=$250) knife from a brand claiming to have tight tolerances for me there's no way around that that here is a "flaw"... and I'd consider Vivi's Chief flawed as well. Wouldn't you?

Just for comparision: I handled half a dozen examples of the Manly Peak, which is a very comparable knife, and none of them showed anything that I'd consider a "flaw" like that on my Chief. The S90V Peak comes at under $100.
And of course I have higher expectations for a higher priced knife... shouldn't I?


Like I said... I love the design, it's what makes Spyderco stand out for me, but that makes me condone things more often than I should. I just get the impression their reputation kinda makes them become sloppy here and there, because people tend to be more forgiving.




I think this sort of thing needs brought to their attention, whether you're on another continent or not. Returning it to the dealer doesn't change anything nor does talking about it on the forum, they need to see it first hand. The only way this gets improved is through feedback. I understand not wanting to pay the shipping but that's the cost of buying from overseas, I've dealt with it many times myself.
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby Naperville » Mon May 17, 2021 7:35 am

Here are my 4. The camera blows up the variances larger than they are. The XHP is the only one that might have evidence of an issue but, it's fine.

Maxamet - Perfect
S90V - Perfect
Rex45 - Perfect
XHP - Slight mismatch, but does not effect the operation of the knife


https://i.postimg.cc/8cvyHn3F/Spyderco-01.jpg
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https://i.postimg.cc/mDJX7Gdf/Spyderco-02.jpg
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https://i.postimg.cc/R0PbVtK0/Spyderco-03.jpg
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https://i.postimg.cc/s2fNrmB8/Spyderco-04.jpg
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby JRinFL » Mon May 17, 2021 8:42 am

vivi wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 12:49 am
eventhorizon wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 4:32 pm
vivi wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 4:19 pm
eventhorizon wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 4:12 pm
Just got my REX45 Native Chief.

Since this is my first Spyderco backlock... is it normal for the spring to perceptibly protrude over the backspacer when the knife is open? They're perfectly flush when it's closed.
I'd say 25% of my Spyderco lockbacks have lock bars that don't seat flush. One of my Rex Chiefs is perfect there, the other is off enough I considered returning it.

I'm usually not too picky about blade centering and other more cosmetic flaws, but I'm not a big fan of how the lock release feels during operation when they're real off.

That sure sounds like a lot. Not sure how I feel about this yet.
Here is a comparison with my user and the unused back-up.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Why are yours such a bright orange color? Color balance off on your camera or are they really that bright?
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby FK » Mon May 17, 2021 11:58 am

Apparently Golden still cannot make reliable back locks.
I owned THREE of the first Native C41 Forum Knives, offered in 2013,,,,, all had unacceptable up/down blade play when opened. Very discouraged with Native design and will not purchase any to this day.

In my Spyderco collection are approx. 40 Seki-City FRN models,,, all are excellent with no lock rock and only one has very slight out of alignment lock bar protrusion when opened.

Regards,
FK

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vivi
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby vivi » Mon May 17, 2021 1:21 pm

eventhorizon wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 4:05 am
...I tried to take it apart for inspection, but I can't - the rear screw has been threadlocked to death.
Fun times, huh? I got a stripped screw on my user for daring to take it apart thanks for the huge gobs of white thread locker.
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Re: I grossly underestimated the Native Chief

Postby TkoK83Spy » Mon May 17, 2021 1:25 pm

vivi wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:21 pm
eventhorizon wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 4:05 am
...I tried to take it apart for inspection, but I can't - the rear screw has been threadlocked to death.
Fun times, huh? I got a stripped screw on my user for daring to take it apart thanks for the huge gobs of white thread locker.
I may have got lucky with mine, I changed my clip and had no issues with those 3 screws. Also messed with the pivot a little to get the action where I liked it and the pivot screws snapped loose from the threadlocker fairly easily. As mentioned before, I wonder if someone in Golden just got a little happy with the stuff over a couple day period as it seems pretty sporadic with the loctite usage on this particular model??
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