H1 Revisited

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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H1 Revisited

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:56 pm

Recently I purchased a Spyderco Pacific Salt with Black Blade and also a Salt2 with black blade. Both are SE.

Previously I gave my Pacific Salt SE with satin blade to a friend who bought a boat but missed it and decided to go black this time and also give the Salt2 in black blade a try.

The Pacific Salt came in just like I remembered the non black blade not really impressively sharp. Figured oh well will take some time and get it sharp like the last one.

Received the Salt2 and it was so sharp I can hardly believe it is the same steel!

Compared it to an LC200 Native PE and SE and honestly like H1 better it does retain an edge longer in SE than Lc200n does.

Seriously considering a H1 Salt2 PE tonight.

Do not feel Lc200N can dethrone H1.

Have never compared PE LC200N to PE H1

Does PE H1 at least match VG10?
:)

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby wrdwrght » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:44 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:56 pm
Does PE H1 at least match VG10?
H1 far exceeds VG10 both in rust-proofness and in toughness. In my experience, PE H1 does not hold the edge that VG10 does with the same bevels, but it does have better sharpening response.
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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:52 pm

PE H1 is like 8cr13mov to me. In terms of how quickly it loses it's edge, but also in ease of sharpening. I'd never buy another PE H1 knife...SE, alllll day.
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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby knivesandbooks » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:25 pm

Can H1 be used as a jacket when laminating a blade? If so, would it be better than the sus410 or any of the other steels people use for that purpose?
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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby setldown » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:49 pm

My understanding is H1 cannot be heat treated so I assume it wouldn't be a candidate for laminating with a steel that needs to be heat treated. IIRC Sal mentioned one of the problems of choosing a steel for cladding is that it has to have similar heat treat properties to the steel it's being cladded too. Maybe someone can chime in and save me from floundering here. ;) :confused: :eek:

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Doc Dan » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:46 am

He has said that in more than one occasion. It makes sense, too.

I am no H1 expert, but I understand pe H1 is at least as good as AUS8 in edge retention and it is very tough. So far, I cannot argue with that assessment.

Now, which is tougher, H1 or AEB-l?
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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:00 pm

Well I must admit I really love the Salt2 In DLC SE.

So much so in fact I just purchased the Salt2 DLC in Plain edge should be interesting to see what the edge retention and sharpening is all about.

This is kind of odd for me preferring a smaller knife over it's larger counterpart the Pacific Salt in SE.
:)

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Username827 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:08 pm

Got my first Salt in today. SE and blackout just the way it should be. Had to replace my DF, that was losses and found right after I received shipping confirmation lol.
That Teal DF that came with it was really impressive as well, my wife loved her present

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby spoonrobot » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:47 pm

LC200N seems more like a "normal steel" in both sharpness and wear resistance. In my limited experience I think it's a lot closer to VG-10 than H1. It'll chip more than roll and can get sharp enough to split hairs.

H1 is a different animal. It likes a toothy edge, with low inclusive angle and extra care when removing the burr. It'll almost never chip but will tend to roll or take a flat spot. If I do a good job I can put an edge on that will last longer than VG-10 but does not feel like it has the same initial sharpness. I can rarely get the edge to light pressure shaving sharp, it's not that type of steel and excels more at cutting tasks where a back and forth motion is used.

I've only done a bit with SE H1, PE just works a lot better for my use.

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Evil D » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:08 pm

spoonrobot wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:47 pm
LC200N seems more like a "normal steel" in both sharpness and wear resistance. In my limited experience I think it's a lot closer to VG-10 than H1. It'll chip more than roll and can get sharp enough to split hairs.

H1 is a different animal. It likes a toothy edge, with low inclusive angle and extra care when removing the burr. It'll almost never chip but will tend to roll or take a flat spot. If I do a good job I can put an edge on that will last longer than VG-10 but does not feel like it has the same initial sharpness. I can rarely get the edge to light pressure shaving sharp, it's not that type of steel and excels more at cutting tasks where a back and forth motion is used.

I've only done a bit with SE H1, PE just works a lot better for my use.

We must sharpen differently, for me H1 has been one of the easiest steels to get "tree topping sharp" where it'll pluck hair off my arm without touching skin. For me it seems to burr more/easier than LC200N and loses peak sharpness much faster than LC. I haven't used LC in PE yet to compare it to H1 in PE, but I have noth in SE and I'm leaning towards LC at the moment. I have also chipped the crap out of H1.

Ultimately for me the two steels are both good enough in their own ways that the deciding factor for my choosing one over the other is that LC comes in FFG and I prefer it over hollow/saber grinds.
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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby KarlG » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:23 pm

All the modern steels that most knife makers and especially Spyderco, are able to be sharpened ti a fine degree and possess a hardness that will hold an edge.

I got a new Pacific Salt this week and it was Very sharp, I got a little Spyderbite from Spyderflicking the blade so don't ask me how I know. :rolleyes:
SpydercoPacific.jpg
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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Vivi » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:33 pm

spoonrobot wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:47 pm
LC200N seems more like a "normal steel" in both sharpness and wear resistance. In my limited experience I think it's a lot closer to VG-10 than H1. It'll chip more than roll and can get sharp enough to split hairs.

H1 is a different animal. It likes a toothy edge, with low inclusive angle and extra care when removing the burr. It'll almost never chip but will tend to roll or take a flat spot. If I do a good job I can put an edge on that will last longer than VG-10 but does not feel like it has the same initial sharpness. I can rarely get the edge to light pressure shaving sharp, it's not that type of steel and excels more at cutting tasks where a back and forth motion is used.

I've only done a bit with SE H1, PE just works a lot better for my use.
I'd have to disagree with regards to raw sharpness. I have no issues getting hair whittling sharpness on PE H1 with a medium Spyderco bench stone or fine DMT.

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby spoonrobot » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:08 pm

Evil D wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:08 pm
spoonrobot wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:47 pm
LC200N seems more like a "normal steel" in both sharpness and wear resistance. In my limited experience I think it's a lot closer to VG-10 than H1. It'll chip more than roll and can get sharp enough to split hairs.

H1 is a different animal. It likes a toothy edge, with low inclusive angle and extra care when removing the burr. It'll almost never chip but will tend to roll or take a flat spot. If I do a good job I can put an edge on that will last longer than VG-10 but does not feel like it has the same initial sharpness. I can rarely get the edge to light pressure shaving sharp, it's not that type of steel and excels more at cutting tasks where a back and forth motion is used.

I've only done a bit with SE H1, PE just works a lot better for my use.
We must sharpen differently
Probably. I use the same stone, oil and (mostly) process for all my knives as a control to see how they perform. I've handled a H1 knife with mirror edge that could cut standing hairs but it seems like a lot more work to get to that point using tape, polish and a lot of time. Compared to something like ZDP189 which I sharpen using a regular fine Norton stone and split hairs easily. H1 just doesn't get to the same point with the same amount of effort. Which is sort of a backwards way to explain it but I guess that's just my thought process.

Give me 2-3 minutes with my stone and a VG-10 or LC200n blade and I can have them about the same. H1 will be sharp and cut well but just doesn't have that same level of sharpness. My mental CATRA curve is lower and flatter than other steels if that makes sense.

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Doc Dan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:55 am

The Dragonfly Salt in pe I just bought from knifeworks May be the sharpest factory knife, or at Keats tied fir sharpest, I have ever had. It will cut a hair without shaving motion. It just picks up the hair and cuts it clean.
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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:58 pm

Last night I was doing some home repairs and did something I would never do with a more expensive knife, or a more brittle steel.

I had to cut some dry wall out and decided to use the Salt 2 as it was in my pocket. It cut the dry wall nicely and shaved the paper coating down a bit with ease. Closed it, stuck it in my pocket and cleaned up the mess then went about patching.

Later in the evening used it to cut the tip off a calk tube, open some packages etc...

Cleaned the blade and gave it a cut test with some telephone book paper. Pretty impressed how the edge was still so sharp at the flat part of the tip that was used to slice into dry wall etc..

This really is a tough steel.
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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:59 pm

Oh and I compared the Salt2 to the Pacific Salt and I think the extra sharpness is coming from a thinner blade stock.
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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby JacksonKnives » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:37 pm

Anecdotally, it's a good blade steel.
Anecdotally, "German stainless" is "the best" steel for the kitchen.

Objectively, there are better ways to hold an edge for many tasks.

If the edge retention of the geometry/steel is good enough for your task and you benefit from the unmatched rust resistance of H1, good for you! It's a specialized steel that does very well in the role it's made for.

I have the same feelings about high carbon steel in razors and gold in pen nibs. If the material is doing what you need the way you want it to, great. But don't try to convince me the material is somehow uncompromised and perfect.

Can you steel an edge back on H1 after it rolls? Sure. But let's not pretend that ductility is a magical property. Lots of steels are ductile.

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Vivi » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:15 pm

spoonrobot wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:08 pm
Evil D wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:08 pm
spoonrobot wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:47 pm
LC200N seems more like a "normal steel" in both sharpness and wear resistance. In my limited experience I think it's a lot closer to VG-10 than H1. It'll chip more than roll and can get sharp enough to split hairs.

H1 is a different animal. It likes a toothy edge, with low inclusive angle and extra care when removing the burr. It'll almost never chip but will tend to roll or take a flat spot. If I do a good job I can put an edge on that will last longer than VG-10 but does not feel like it has the same initial sharpness. I can rarely get the edge to light pressure shaving sharp, it's not that type of steel and excels more at cutting tasks where a back and forth motion is used.

I've only done a bit with SE H1, PE just works a lot better for my use.
We must sharpen differently
Probably. I use the same stone, oil and (mostly) process for all my knives as a control to see how they perform. I've handled a H1 knife with mirror edge that could cut standing hairs but it seems like a lot more work to get to that point using tape, polish and a lot of time. Compared to something like ZDP189 which I sharpen using a regular fine Norton stone and split hairs easily. H1 just doesn't get to the same point with the same amount of effort. Which is sort of a backwards way to explain it but I guess that's just my thought process.

Give me 2-3 minutes with my stone and a VG-10 or LC200n blade and I can have them about the same. H1 will be sharp and cut well but just doesn't have that same level of sharpness. My mental CATRA curve is lower and flatter than other steels if that makes sense.
There is nothing inherit to H1 that makes it difficult to achieve high levels of sharpness with. SE or PE, I can get sharp enough straight off the brown Sharpmaker stones to pop off arm hairs without making contact with my skin. No tape, no strop, no polishing. I can make them shaving sharp with the diamond rods too.

It's all about technique. PE H1 does form a burr easily compared to say, S30V. It's a great steel for teaching you light strokes to remove the burr rather than relying on polishing them away with a strop.
Last edited by Vivi on Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Vivi » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:18 pm

JacksonKnives wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:37 pm
Anecdotally, it's a good blade steel.
Anecdotally, "German stainless" is "the best" steel for the kitchen.

Objectively, there are better ways to hold an edge for many tasks.

If the edge retention of the geometry/steel is good enough for your task and you benefit from the unmatched rust resistance of H1, good for you! It's a specialized steel that does very well in the role it's made for.

I have the same feelings about high carbon steel in razors and gold in pen nibs. If the material is doing what you need the way you want it to, great. But don't try to convince me the material is somehow uncompromised and perfect.

Can you steel an edge back on H1 after it rolls? Sure. But let's not pretend that ductility is a magical property. Lots of steels are ductile.
PE H1, sure.

SE H1 is a straight up super steel.

The edge retention of my SE Pacific Salts I EDC matches or exceeds every other knife I own, period.

SE H1, for my EDC uses, holds an edge superior to: PE H1, VG10, bd1 and 8Cr13MoV.........AND S30V......AND M4.....D2.......S90V...........AND K390....and so on.

People that don't use the steel often seem to forget this point. There is absolutely NOTHING that SE H1 does poorly at, besides being FFG in a factory setting. It is a grail steel. The toughness of a carbon tool steel, the edge holding of a carbide loaded high hardness steel, and rust PROOF.

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Re: H1 Revisited

Postby Bill1170 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:45 pm

Vivi wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:18 pm
JacksonKnives wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:37 pm
Anecdotally, it's a good blade steel.
Anecdotally, "German stainless" is "the best" steel for the kitchen.

Objectively, there are better ways to hold an edge for many tasks.

If the edge retention of the geometry/steel is good enough for your task and you benefit from the unmatched rust resistance of H1, good for you! It's a specialized steel that does very well in the role it's made for.

I have the same feelings about high carbon steel in razors and gold in pen nibs. If the material is doing what you need the way you want it to, great. But don't try to convince me the material is somehow uncompromised and perfect.

Can you steel an edge back on H1 after it rolls? Sure. But let's not pretend that ductility is a magical property. Lots of steels are ductile.
PE H1, sure.

SE H1 is a straight up super steel.

The edge retention of my SE Pacific Salts I EDC matches or exceeds every other knife I own, period.

SE H1, for my EDC uses, holds an edge superior to: PE H1, VG10, bd1 and 8Cr13MoV.........AND S30V......AND M4.....D2.......S90V...........AND K390....and so on.

People that don't use the steel often seem to forget this point. There is absolutely NOTHING that SE H1 does poorly at, besides being FFG in a factory setting. It is a grail steel. The toughness of a carbon tool steel, the edge holding of a carbide loaded high hardness steel, and rust PROOF.
Amen, brother. SE H-1 is definitely a supersteel.


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