POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

[Mushroom]

...The Mule Team Project has lost its integrity since introducing the straight spine version to the market. It’s irredeemable at this point too, the damage is done, the knife is part of Mule Team Project history now and that can’t be changed...

Surely you jest. That's a lot of hyperbole to not be in jest.

I have to ask you the same question…

Did you skip the rest of my post that you deleted?

[Bolster]

I have to ask you the same question…

Did you skip the rest of my post that you deleted?

So you do jest! In which case, LOL. And the LOL is for real, not just in jest.

[Mushroom]

I have to ask you the same question…

Did you skip the rest of my post that you deleted?

So you do jest! In which case, LOL. And the LOL is for real, not just in jest.

Not sure why you feel the need to patronize me. I wasn’t talking about you, you don’t have to take it so personally.

I said what I said, now get over yourself.

[Manixguy@1994]

I voted for straight spine since it will be a standard . I like the original Mule variants to stay as is and not break a great tradition .

[Araignee]

Voted "Change the pattern of the Standard Mule to be more similar to all the other mules (and use the same sheath as the other mules.)"

Why not just write "Regular Mule" on the blade of the recurrent SPY27 version ?
This way 100% compatibility with current and future accessories would be maintained - plus, the recurrent version would be distinguished from the earlier limited edition.
I'm also guessing that the added cost would be negligible.

[Araignee]

If shape is nothing more than a computer program, I've gotten the impression there are a lot of mule-heads (self included) that are curious about a wharnie/sheepfoot blade shape.

Perhaps the in-stock "Standard Mule" in SPY27 revolves slowly in blade shapes. Perhaps straight spine this year, leaf next, wharnie next, clip next, and so on. You could start a "blade shape" testing ground, as a parallel test bed, based on a single type of steel (SPY27).

This would allow afi's to fill pages and pages of the forum with opinions on which blade shapes were best at what!

(Now that I think of it, I'm really curious what my preferred blade shape is for lightweight backpacking. I don't actually know!)

I like the idea of a "Blade Mule" ("Blade Team" ?) but given the variations, it'd be more of a secondary Mule Team line-up than a perennial one. Especially given that, as you pointed out in the other thread, it'd quickly become unmanageable regarding official accessories.

Such a "Blade Mule" could be infrequent, perhaps released only after the community has settled on a new steel (tried as part of a Mule Team) they'd like to explore more thoroughly.

[Mr_Whiskerz]

I fear it’s all for nought though. The Mule Team Project has lost its integrity since introducing the straight spine version to the market. It’s irredeemable at this point too, the damage is done, the knife is part of Mule Team Project history now and that can’t be changed. That is ultimately why I now expect the straight spine blade shape to remain and also anticipate more blade shapes in the future.

You sound like someone just killed your dog.

[Mr_Whiskerz]

Can we get an "indifferent" poll option?

[Mushroom]

I fear it’s all for nought though. The Mule Team Project has lost its integrity since introducing the straight spine version to the market. It’s irredeemable at this point too, the damage is done, the knife is part of Mule Team Project history now and that can’t be changed. That is ultimately why I now expect the straight spine blade shape to remain and also anticipate more blade shapes in the future.

You sound like someone just killed your dog.

Okay.

Do you have anything productive to add to the discussion? Or are you just here to throw around insults?

[FullScaler]

How amazing is it that we are even able to have this conversation with Sal about an amazing blade program.

I voted to make it the same shape as the other Mules, if only for the standardization of the Kydex sheaths.

That said, I am just more than happy that it is a regular production run, with a handle shape that maintains the original profile so it can share the existing handles, and made from a premium knife blade steel that would be unheard of just a few decades ago.

I may prefer it to match the original esthetics and leaf shape, but it is far from a deal breaker for me.

[CLOK]

I voted to keep it as it is.

Yes they changed the shape but they differentiated the SKU from the typical Mule Team lineup and I see that as them trying to separate it enough from the program. If they left it named “MTXX” and that was it (X’s being numbers) then I would say they interfered with the normal program, but they didn’t, they changed the SKU. It’s literally a small technicality but I don’t see anything wrong.

They are providing us a high quality, high standard, $60 knife blank to do whatever we want to do with it. Yes, it would have been more ideal if the original sheath worked with it, but it didn’t and that’s alright. I think we all can be a bit to critical at times and see this situation where people are being a bit of a “choosing beggar”. I’m sure they had plenty discussions about this exact thing and they made the decision they did. No one is forcing anyone to buy it. I’m just glad they have a standard production blank, I don’t care what they call it or what they group it under, it’s just nice they are providing it for whatever we want to do with it and if we royally mess it up we can easily replace it.

[Manixguy@1994]

I voted to keep it as it is.

Yes they changed the shape but they differentiated the SKU from the typical Mule Team lineup and I see that as them trying to separate it enough from the program. If they left it named “MTXX” and that was it (X’s being numbers) then I would say they interfered with the normal program, but they didn’t, they changed the SKU. It’s literally a small technicality but I don’t see anything wrong.

They are providing us a high quality, high standard, $60 knife blank to do whatever we want to do with it. Yes, it would have been more ideal if the original sheath worked with it, but it didn’t and that’s alright. I think we all can be a bit to critical at times and see this situation where people are being a bit of a “choosing beggar”. I’m sure they had plenty discussions about this exact thing and they made the decision they did. No one is forcing anyone to buy it. I’m just glad they have a standard production blank, I don’t care what they call it or what they group it under, it’s just nice they are providing it for whatever we want to do with it and if we royally mess it up we can easily replace it.

Very well said , and agree . MG2

[standy99]

To me this is truly a blank I will buy to make knives for other people that don’t buy Mules.

This is not a Mule I will keep and cherish/test and enjoy for myself as I have a SPY27 Mule.(and over 20 others of various steels)

I have already had someone comment that they prefer the straight spine compared to original when they were given the choice of one I have 4 of and the New straight spine.

When I make handles, which are epoxied on, the sheath is of no use to me either. As the profile of my handles does not match the Spyderco new sheath or do my mules which are coupled with a leather sheath I have made.

Think of this knife as not a Mule but a knife blank for up and coming makers.

[Bemo]

I like roach belly fixed blades. This is a nice addition and I would fully support a wharnie version as well. And I use the word addition intentionally. To me you now have an additional product line: kit knife to go along with a testing mule line. The new line takes nothing away from the testing mules as long as new steels to be tested are first introduced into the "traditional" mule line You can always move a steel to the kit line later if demand warrants it. How is this not a win for us AFI's?

[Cl1ff]

I like the Straight Spine look and function more so thats what I chose in the poll. I believed there were also plans for a serrated version that I was pretty excited about, but I could be misremembering. I'm not opposed to going back to the original shape, though.

The tip is plenty strong. Ive done a lot of "testing" and have been very happy with the performance. I'll share what I've done with the the handle and how I've used the knife in more detail sometime, but I've thrown it at stumps and into the ground repeatedly with no damage to show for it. It is a sweet knife that has its own merits, but I am ultimately happy if any Mule-like fixed blade stays in production. If there are plans for serrations or, down the line, other variations it would be a treat to see that on the production Mule Team.

[Mushroom]

If it’s not part of the Mule Team anymore, it should not be called “Mule Team 2.” If it is part of the Mule Team, it should not have introduced any additional variables other than steel type.

Just because they share a handle, that doesn’t mean they need to share a name. We can just to look at the Aqua Salt and Fish Hunter to prove it too. Maybe it is only the name that needs to be changed, not the knife itself?

[Araignee]

If it’s not part of the Mule Team anymore, it should not be called “Mule Team 2.” If it is part of the Mule Team, it should not have introduced any additional variables other than steel type.

It could be called a "Perma-Mule", because at the end of the day, it's still intended for testing/modding purposes.
But no "Team" in the name because it's not part of the historical lineup of Mules.

Just because they share a handle, that doesn’t mean they need to share a name. We can just to look at the Aqua Salt and Fish Hunter to prove it too.

Going by this logic, a Delica Wharncliffe shouldn't be called a Delica either...

[Cl1ff]

I fail to see where there is any actual significance to your objection(?) if just a name change is enough to solve it. Not that I don't think there is any, but I'm just not sure I get what that is to you, if that makes sense. I'd think "Mule Team 2" is enough, though?

Frankly, I think there is no significance in the spine change in regards to having any affect on the testing of steel.
However, it does open up the potential for questions/tests investigating that, which only leads to more information and data. That is perfectly in line with the intention of the Mules, to test steel, by theoretically testing if the blade shape has an affect of the performance of said steel in tests like rope cutting or piercing. This would effectively test our tests and refining them is important.
I don’t think this is a particularly argument from me, but I’m really just thinking out loud.

Again, I’m realistically fine with either shape and I actually like the idea of Spy27 logo like the H1, H2, and LC200N knives. I think something like that could work too.

[RustyIron]

I abstain from voting.

The original leaf shape is prettier than the straight back, no doubt.

Maybe the Standard Mule is best left straight, however, to differentiate it from the regular Mules and to appeal for those with a straight spine fetish. I already have the original curvalicious SPY27 Mule, and it's probably the most used knife I own.

[Mushroom]

If it’s not part of the Mule Team anymore, it should not be called “Mule Team 2.” If it is part of the Mule Team, it should not have introduced any additional variables other than steel type.

It could be called a "Perma-Mule", because at the end of the day, it's still intended for testing/modding purposes.
But no "Team" in the name because it's not part of the historical lineup of Mules.

Just because they share a handle, that doesn’t mean they need to share a name. We can just to look at the Aqua Salt and Fish Hunter to prove it too.

Going by this logic, a Delica Wharncliffe shouldn't be called a Delica either...

I disagree, I’m not saying all knives that share handles but have different blade shapes should always have different names - I’m saying there is clearly no requirement from Spyderco that those types of knives need to share a name.

Names can go a long way too. The Aqua Salt and Fish Hunter share a handle but are almost never associated with each other. If the Mule Team 2 didn’t have “Mule Team” in the name, it wouldn’t be so closely associated to the original Mule Team Project. I think a name as simple as “Spyderco Kit Knife” could’ve been sufficient.

I fail to see where there is any actual significance to your objection(?) if just a name change is enough to solve it. Not that I don't think there is any, but I'm just sure I get what that is to you, if that makes sense.
Regardless, I'd think "Mule Team 2" is enough?

Frankly, I think there is no significance in the spine change in regards to having any affect on the testing of steel.
However, it does open up the potential for questions/tests investigating that, which only leads to more information and data. That is perfectly in line with the intention of the Mules, to test steel, by theoretically testing if the blade shape has an affect of the performance of said steel in tests like rope cutting or piercing. This would effectively test our tests and refining them is important.

To your first point, honestly, no that doesn’t make sense to me. I’m not trying to be rude, I just really can’t tell what you’re saying. I understand your opinion that you think the name “Mule Team 2” is enough to clarify it as not part of the Mule Team Project but the point before that is causing some confusion for me.

To your second point, the Mule Team Project is not “just” about the testing of steel - it’s about controlled testing of steel. Which is a large part of the point I’m trying to make. The straight spine is an additional variable to account for now and without re-releasing every other Mule Team with a straight spine, there is no way to fairly compare how the straight spine affects use and performance of those steels, with said straight spine.

The straight spine is adding another testing variable, which is something the Mule Team Project explicitly stated it does not do.

All that being said, I’m well aware that the intention of the Mule Team 2 was not supposed to be about testing blade steels and was primarily supposed to be a blank kit for custom makers. Spyderco used to sell a Bushcraft blank kit and I’m glad to see another offering like that in the lineup again.

So if the “Mule Team 2” is primarily supposed to be a knife blank readily available for custom knife making projects and it’s not supposed to be a platform for controlled testing of blade steels, I don’t see why changing the name would meet any resistance. Its most likely easier than changing the knife itself, it would satisfy those that prefer to keep the straight spine version, and it would clearly and obviously seperate it from the original Mule Team Project.

Of course that leaves the elephant in the room unaddressed though. The standard production version would still have a straight spine and not the traditional Mule Team spine shape. It’s pretty much established that a straight up re-release is not possible and the regular production version needs to differentiate itself from the original run by more than just name. The only way to change keep all performance characteristics identical but still change the knife is to change it cosmetically. Any changes that affect the pattern and specifications ultimately end up changing the performance characteristics of the blade, which disrupts the control variable that Spyderco has maintained since the inception of the project itself. This leads me to two ideas, laser engraving on the blade somewhere or adjusting the size of the trademark round hole.