POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

A place to share your experience with our Mule Team knives.

Which do you prefer, regards the “Standard Mule” (MT28P2)?

Poll ended at Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:40 pm

Keep the Standard Mule as is, with existing straight spine (and the new sheath that fits it).
29
50%
Change the pattern of the Standard Mule to be more similar to all the other mules (and use the same sheath as the other mules.)
29
50%
 
Total votes: 58

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Bolster
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POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#1

Post by Bolster »

Sal asked for the following poll, after a discussion between Sal and forumite chkn. You may want to read that exchange before voting (see pages 3 & 4 of viewtopic.php?f=15&t=94181&start=60). This poll runs for two weeks and allows changing of your vote.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#2

Post by standy99 »

Leave it as is. It’s nice to have something a bit slimmer
(Have read the above exchange.)

It’s a standard kit knife. Don’t know why it is a issue

Mules are still available. As Mules so you have the best of both worlds.
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.
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bob-atlatl
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#3

Post by bob-atlatl »

Leave as is,, put the design efforts into additional neat stuff.
... rule #9 ...
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Mushroom
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Re: POLL: "Standard Mule" MT28P2 in SPY27

#4

Post by Mushroom »

It shouldn’t be but this is a tough one for me to answer.

On one hand, I generally agree with “chkn” in the sense that I don’t like to see substantial changes introduced to something that has been developed specifically for controlled variable testing. (Which is also the reason why I don’t think there should be a larger Mule Team knife introduced but I digress) In a way, making the Mule Team 2 with a straight spine abandoned the long-standing integrity of the Mule Team Project itself.

On the other hand, I recognize Sal and Spyderco’s desire to differentiate the standard production Mule Team 2 from the rest of the Mule Team project. There is an aspect of collectibility that is intrinsically connected to something like the Mule Team Project and I appreciate Sals efforts to cater to collectors in that regard as well.

With that said, I definitely agree that the standard production Mule Team 2 (MT28P2) should differentiate itself from the original Mule Team project (MT28) in some way more than SKU number. I don’t really mind the straight spine too much though. I did think it was approaching, what could be considered, a “substantial change” but I also thought it was an effective way to clearly differentiate itself from the original Mule Team Project.

This begs the question, how could Spyderco release a standard production Mule Team 2 without changing the design but still differentiate it from the original Mule Team Project? My first thought was to add or remove holes in the handle but then thought that could potentially have similar resistance to changing the spine. That could also be covered up by handle scales leaving no way to differentiate the two in the end. Next I thought about maybe adding some basic laser engraving that designates it as the standard production Mule Team 2. Something as simple as the words “standard production” under the Spyder logo or a unique Mule Team logo as the makers mark might have worked.

tl;dr - Don’t know how to vote because straight spine is not preferred but acceptable, in my opinion.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#5

Post by ykspydiefan »

I like the look of the Standard Mule. Voted keep it the same only from a time and energy point of view and effort it will take to reshape this offering.

I have not bought one yet, but that was in no way to do with the shape.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#6

Post by Bolster »

Pro Straight Spine:
Very functional piercing tip - my favorite discovery with this knife. It gets jobs the others don’t.
Reduces weight a little, which is good for my kind of backpacking.
Provides variety aka “diversity” in the mule lineup.
The look of the knife is more aggressive — can be pro or con.
Already in production.
The way Sal wanted to do it.

Neither (for me):
The new sheath is a non-issue if you are a student of Chad Kelly and make your own sheaths.
For comparative testing (why would you be testing an always-in-stock mule?), I can’t imagine a straight spine would make much difference, if any.
For collectors, having one of the originals might have some cachet, but of no concern to me.

Con Straight Spine:
Tip likely a little more fragile.
Visual balance looks a little handle heavy.
The look of the knife is more aggressive — can be pro or con.

For me it’s 6:3:3 so I voted leave it as is.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#7

Post by chkn »

Voted the way people would expect.
That said I can understand why people would vote the other way. After all a new knife shape is a new knife, which means more variety. I'm mostly just enamored with the original shape and was hopeful of the idea that it could be a "mainstay" of Spyderco's lineup as a reflection of how great a design it is by being readily available, though I suppose it has probably established that through its approximately decade and a half of existence.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#8

Post by Connman »

While I am partial to the leaf design , not opposed to the straight spine. Radical idea , sell it in both formats. The tooling is already there for both designs , knock out batches of each. Use Lazer etching to differentiate original leaf from new batches.
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Re: POLL: "Standard Mule" MT28P2 in SPY27

#9

Post by bobartig »

Mushroom wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:47 pm


This begs the question, how could Spyderco release a standard production Mule Team 2 without changing the design but still differentiate it from the original Mule Team Project? My first thought was to add or remove holes in the handle but then thought that could potentially have similar resistance to changing the spine. That could also be covered up by handle scales leaving no way to differentiate the two in the end. Next I thought about maybe adding some basic laser engraving that designates it as the standard production Mule Team 2. Something as simple as the words “standard production” under the Spyder logo or a unique Mule Team logo as the makers mark might have worked.
My first thought was to give the Standard Mule the same tiny spidey hole as the Bow River (about 1/4" in diameter).

Specific engraving/stamping is even easier sounding, although that might not satisfy differentiating "at a glance", if that's truly how distinct the standard mule is supposed to be.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#10

Post by Coastal »

I prefer the MT2's more acute tip, and I like variety, so I voted to keep it as is.

I don't feel invested in the original purpose of the Mule Team Project (though I understand that others legitimately feel the opposite), and I like the leather sheath better than the Boltaron, so those are further reasons that I'd just as soon see the MT2 kept as is.

I decide to buy each Mule based on whether I want a fixie in that particular steel; I don't just grab every Mule that Spyderco releases. This was an opportunity to get one in SPY 27, and I would have bought it no matter what the blade shape. I do think it would be really cool if Spyderco decided to use the MT2 as a platform to have their proprietary steel tested in various blade styles: Wharnie, Sheepscliffe, 5-inch leaf, etc., as others have suggested. And of course SE.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#11

Post by sal »

Hi Connman,

Welcome to our forum.

The tooling is a program. No hard tooling. More important that the Mule Team is pleased. I'd like to let this play out. Like Chkn, I am partial to the "look" of the original Mule shape, but I felt that I needed to distinguish them from the Mule SPY27. So, those of you that think we should keep the Mule shape, let me know your thoughts on what could make that distinction.

sal
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#12

Post by legOFwhat? »

Make the standard Spy wharncliff, similar to the jojimbo, lose the nub. Receive fat stacks of cash?

Call it the WharnSpy mule or WharnSpy27.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#13

Post by Josh Crutchley »

I personally don't like the look of the MT2 but my opinion doesn't change the way it performs. I'll still get one since I missed the first SPY27 Mule.

I do like the idea of keeping the leaf shape and adding some kind of engraving. It would be cool if SPY27 gets the blade logo treatment like H1 and LC200N. Even a small logo like the Hennie Haynes "H" could work. If the straight spine stays the thumb ramp area needs some work. Maybe something closer to the Military without jimping.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#14

Post by N. Brian Huegel »

Different shape, look, and feel is great as I am all in favor of new variations, however, this is not exactly what the Mule concept is all about. All the same but different steel, so that when testing/using only one feature would not be the same as all of the others. In that way, the knife would be used to cut the same materials, in the same way, with the same grip, held in the same way, so that the only thing being tested was the steel. Making the Standard a different shape can be prejudicial if only in a subconscious way. Having the steel alloy laser engraved on the blade tang should have been enough to differentiate. Keep the straight spine version as long as it sells, but the Standard needs to be the leaf sharp blade.

nb
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#15

Post by Ramonade »

I'm cool with either.
Sal explained why he chose to shave a bit of the spine to keep the geometry as is, since he believed this is a way of distinguishing production and limited run mules without too much difference in cutting performance.

But if it'll sell more to change the shape of the MT2 towards the shape of the original Mules, I'm all for it :open-grin
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#16

Post by Bolster »

If shape is nothing more than a computer program, I've gotten the impression there are a lot of mule-heads (self included) that are curious about a wharnie/sheepfoot blade shape.

Perhaps the in-stock "Standard Mule" in SPY27 revolves slowly in blade shapes. Perhaps straight spine this year, leaf next, wharnie next, clip next, and so on. You could start a "blade shape" testing ground, as a parallel test bed, based on a single type of steel (SPY27).

This would allow afi's to fill pages and pages of the forum with opinions on which blade shapes were best at what!

(Now that I think of it, I'm really curious what my preferred blade shape is for lightweight backpacking. I don't actually know!)
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#17

Post by Jefke »

I was disappointed when I first saw the standard mule. I don't like a straight spine, that's the reason why I don't EDC my PM2 much. I don't like straight spines because of a cutting technique I use regularly: upside down where you're squeezing the tip in between 2 materials, e.g. plastic wrapping, and cutting the material from underneath. It's hard not to poke whatever is underneath what you are cutting when you use a straight spine with that technique. I also like the look of the leaf shape more.

But I do understand why the straight spine was chosen, it's only logical. Anyway, when I buy a standard mule, I will probably modify the tip so that it resembles a Delica. It shortens the blade a little bit, but it makes the blade more useful for me.
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#18

Post by bobartig »

Honestly surprised by how many votes there are for straight spine. I wonder how much of that is based on "protectionism" for the "true" Mules (e.g., "yes, I want you to be different from my stuff!").

Also interesting that a few straight-spiners prefer it for functional reasons. 🤔
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#19

Post by Mushroom »

As more and more gets continuously asked for from Spyderco, I am strongly leaning towards voting to change the Mule Team 2 blade shape back to the original Mule Team blade shape. One and done.

I fear it’s all for nought though. The Mule Team Project has lost its integrity since introducing the straight spine version to the market. It’s irredeemable at this point too, the damage is done, the knife is part of Mule Team Project history now and that can’t be changed. That is ultimately why I now expect the straight spine blade shape to remain and also anticipate more blade shapes in the future.

Here’s what I mean by that too -

This is Spydercos own description of the Mule Team Project: https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/category/mule-team
“Spyderco's Mule Team Project is one of the most unique programs in the commercial knife industry. By definition, a "mule" is a sample knife used for in-house performance testing. Traditionally, they are made to the exact same pattern and specifications, but feature a different blade steel or heat treatment protocol. This keeps all the performance characteristics of the knife identical except for a single variable, allowing an excellent basis for objective, scientific performance-based testing.
Given the existence of the Mule Team 2 Straight Spine, that major statement describing what the Mule Team Project is, is no longer true. It may not be a lie but it’s not true. The integrity it maintained for 35+ variations is gone.

I believe I’ve convinced myself now. The Mule Team 2 should move back to the original blade shape. If someone wants a straight spine Mule, they can modify it. They can’t turn a straight spine Mule into a traditional Mule without sacrificing edge length and overall size.

As Bobartig suggested, a different size “Spydiehole” would be an aesthetically recognizable difference that would clearly distinguish the MT28P2 from the MT28. Next to simple laser engraving, this would impact performance the least as well. Even less than changing the spine shape. Standard production MT28P2 should have a slightly larger Spydiehole because then it could not be modified to replicate an original MT28.

(No reason to make a mockery of cookies in this thread either but looking back to that thread, I told ya so!) :cheap-sunglasses
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Re: POLL: Shape of "Standard Mule" MT28P2

#20

Post by Bolster »

Mushroom wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:48 pm
...The Mule Team Project has lost its integrity since introducing the straight spine version to the market. It’s irredeemable at this point too, the damage is done, the knife is part of Mule Team Project history now and that can’t be changed...

Surely you jest. Hyperbole, if not in jest.
Last edited by Bolster on Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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