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Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:58 pm
by Bolster
Is your "Mule Sense" tingling for the T15 mule? Have any of you experienced T15 in another blade? What do we know about T15...the good, bad & ugly? Spyderco says it's an end mill steel, so that means I need one. Maybe I can chuck it in my mill and use it to drill tapered holes! (Not.)
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:54 am
by Ramonade
No experience whatsoever but this is the one I anticipated the most between Rex76, M398 and T15.
Especially since I have to do the best handle yet on one of these blade for someone !
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:29 am
by legOFwhat?
If this is correct we should be in for another treat!
Sorry for giant pic...
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:44 pm
by Josh Crutchley
I had the pleasure of testing a blade in T15 from Bluntcut Metalworks. I was really impressed with how easy it sharpened, kinda reminded me of Maxamet. It had a custom heat treatment but I would need to try some other T15 to understand the differences.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:35 pm
by Bolster
Leg's post implies 68-70 Rc. That's pretty durned high. Are we expecting this sort of hardness from the T15 mule?
And...what steel database are you referencing on your phone, Leg? That's pretty cool.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:23 am
by Josh Crutchley
Bolster wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:35 pm
Leg's post implies 68-70 Rc. That's pretty durned high. Are we expecting this sort of hardness from the T15 mule?
And...what steel database are you referencing on your phone, Leg? That's pretty cool.
That's the range for Zmax. I think he was referring to where it said Zmax was comparable to T15. I would expect something around 65-67 hrc.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:32 am
by Larrin
Maxamet is a higher carbon, higher cobalt, slightly higher vanadium version of T15. CPM-T15 is normally tops out at 66, maybe 67 Rc. I would anticipate something like 64-66 Rc depending on how they want to heat treat it.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:20 am
by legOFwhat?
Bolster wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:35 pm
Leg's post implies 68-70 Rc. That's pretty durned high. Are we expecting this sort of hardness from the T15 mule?
And...what steel database are you referencing on your phone, Leg? That's pretty cool.
The app is z-knives. I have no idea how accurate it is.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:58 am
by Manixguy@1994
This steel is so interesting and after reading up on it , just may have to order one . Dan
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:04 pm
by Bolster
Manixguy@1994 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:58 am
This steel is so interesting and after reading up on it , just may have to order one . Dan
Don't keep it to yourself, ManixMan--share the knowledge! What did you discover?
legOFwhat? wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:20 am
The app is z-knives. I have no idea how accurate it is.
Must be Android only. Couldn't find for iPhone. All I can find is a game that features a knife-wielding bunny. And absolutely no info on the steel that's used in the bunny's knife.
WAIT. Here it is, in Apple App Store called "Knife Steel Composition Chart." Thanks, Leg.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:27 pm
by Manixguy@1994
Bolster wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:04 pm
Manixguy@1994 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:58 am
This steel is so interesting and after reading up on it , just may have to order one . Dan
Don't keep it to yourself, ManixMan--share the knowledge! What did you discover?
legOFwhat? wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:20 am
The app is z-knives. I have no idea how accurate it is.
Must be Android only. Couldn't find for iPhone. All I can find is a game that features a knife-wielding bunny. And absolutely no info on the steel that's used in the bunny's knife.
WAIT. Here it is, in Apple App Store called "Knife Steel Composition Chart." Thanks, Leg.
I’ve have been behind reading up about this steel . I recently read Dr. Larrin’s article on his site and was impressed. I also think it is time for me to give a tool steel Mule a try . Nothing really earth shattering just good information and history of the steel . Dan
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:32 am
by Bolster
Re-upping one of Dr. Larrin's graphics that gives some context for T15. IIRC, Larrin drew the curves in the neighborhood of the best examples of tool steel, rather than through all the examples.* In other words, I don't think the curve represents a quadratic regression curve attempting to fit all the tool steel points. If true, then I suspect that T15 is not necessarily a laggard that's "behind the curve," I'm guessing (trying to fit a regression curve by eye, yes, dangerous) that T15 is probably about where you'd expect it to be for toughness, given its CATRA scores. Bested by Vanadis 8, but outshining Rex 76, in this graphic.
*A little confusing since the stainless steel curve appears to be more in the swarm of points. But I'm still guessing these are not regression-fit curves, since Dr. Thomas didn't include the formula for the line. If they were regression curves they'd probably have a formula attached.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:02 pm
by Josh Crutchley
Bolster wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:32 am
Re-upping one of Dr. Larrin's graphics that gives some context for T15. IIRC, Larrin drew the curves in the neighborhood of the
best examples of tool steel, rather than through
all the examples.* In other words, I don't think the curve represents a quadratic regression curve attempting to fit all the tool steel points. If true, then I suspect that T15 is not necessarily a laggard that's "behind the curve," I'm guessing (trying to fit a regression curve by eye, yes, dangerous) that T15 is probably about where you'd expect it to be for toughness, given its CATRA scores. Bested by Vanadis 8, but outshining Rex 76, in this graphic.
*A little confusing since the stainless steel curve appears to be more in the swarm of points. But I'm still guessing these are not regression-fit curves, since Dr. Thomas didn't include the formula for the line. If they were regression curves they'd probably have a formula attached.
I think people get caught up on charpy toughness a little too much. It doesn't really correlate to edge stability in my experience. It does a good job showing what happens at the limit but not below. There's two failure modes for steel ductile and brittle. If the steel is ductile it will deform before it fractures giving higher toughness numbers. A brittle steel will just hold form until failure resulting in lower numbers. I think what happens before the limit might be more important than where that limit is.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:52 pm
by legOFwhat?
Where you at T15?
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:30 pm
by Tucson Tom
Interesting that Rex45 and Rex76 are close neighbors on that chart. Two of my absolute favorite steels.
I used to cry every night that there was no Rex-45 mule, but the Rex-76 mule took all the tears away.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:57 pm
by Fireman
Josh Crutchley wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:02 pm
Bolster wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:32 am
Re-upping one of Dr. Larrin's graphics that gives some context for T15. IIRC, Larrin drew the curves in the neighborhood of the
best examples of tool steel, rather than through
all the examples.* In other words, I don't think the curve represents a quadratic regression curve attempting to fit all the tool steel points. If true, then I suspect that T15 is not necessarily a laggard that's "behind the curve," I'm guessing (trying to fit a regression curve by eye, yes, dangerous) that T15 is probably about where you'd expect it to be for toughness, given its CATRA scores. Bested by Vanadis 8, but outshining Rex 76, in this graphic.
*A little confusing since the stainless steel curve appears to be more in the swarm of points. But I'm still guessing these are not regression-fit curves, since Dr. Thomas didn't include the formula for the line. If they were regression curves they'd probably have a formula attached.
I think people get caught up on charpy toughness a little too much. It doesn't really correlate to edge stability in my experience. It does a good job showing what happens at the limit but not below. There's two failure modes for steel ductile and brittle. If the steel is ductile it will deform before it fractures giving higher toughness numbers. A brittle steel will just hold form until failure resulting in lower numbers. I think what happens before the limit might be more important than where that limit is.
Cutting a nail and a lateral deformation test is better for a knife steel test.
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:58 pm
by Fireman
Tucson Tom wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:30 pm
Interesting that Rex45 and Rex76 are close neighbors on that chart. Two of my absolute favorite steels.
I used to cry every night that there was no Rex-45 mule, but the Rex-76 mule took all the tears away.
Intervention time. Are the carbides in the room with you now?
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:00 pm
by Fireman
Maybe you have to show proof of diamond sharpener before you buy a mule in these type of steels :)
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:22 am
by standy99
Got to be dropping soon…….
Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:05 am
by JRinFL
Bolster wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:32 am
Re-upping one of Dr. Larrin's graphics that gives some context for T15. IIRC, Larrin drew the curves in the neighborhood of the
best examples of tool steel, rather than through
all the examples.* In other words, I don't think the curve represents a quadratic regression curve attempting to fit all the tool steel points. If true, then I suspect that T15 is not necessarily a laggard that's "behind the curve," I'm guessing (trying to fit a regression curve by eye, yes, dangerous) that T15 is probably about where you'd expect it to be for toughness, given its CATRA scores. Bested by Vanadis 8, but outshining Rex 76, in this graphic.
*A little confusing since the stainless steel curve appears to be more in the swarm of points. But I'm still guessing these are not regression-fit curves, since Dr. Thomas didn't include the formula for the line. If they were regression curves they'd probably have a formula attached.
I cannot speak to your other points, but I do find it curious that many peoples favorite steels fall right in between the two curves.
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