Let's talk Drilling.

A place to share your experience with our Mule Team knives.
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Xplorer
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Let's talk Drilling.

#1

Post by Xplorer »

Nearly everyone that makes a Mule handle has to drill some holes I assume. If you have some good tips or ideas for people who might be trying to figure out how to drill their handle holes or maybe learning to use a drill press for the first time this is can be a place to post your helpful ideas that will be easy to find later. It can also serve as a good place to ask questions about drilling.

There are lots of knowledgeable people here and most likely everyone has a different set of tools to draw upon to get the job done. It is always interesting to see how other people do things in their workshops, what tools they use and how they overcome challenges. So, show us how YOU get it done.

Some things to discuss...

What do you use to drill your holes? Hand drill, drill press, mill or something else?

How do you set things up for drilling? Do you use a drill vise, a cross slide vise, milling vise, tool maker's vise, no vise, 123 blocks, table clamp, etc.?

How do you align your work for drilling? Do you use punches? Do you align things by hand, or use a center finder? Maybe you use a fully automated CNC and just program the X/Y coordinates?

Tell us about your bits :smirk ..your drilling bits...only your drilling bits please! :smiling-halo
What do you use? Spiral flute jobber bits? HSS or Cobalt? Do you use straight flute reamers? Tell us what you like to use.

I'll start..
I use both a drill press and a mini mill for drilling. I use the drill press 85% of the time and I use a mini mill when I need to maximize the precision for whatever reason.

To align most holes I simply use a punch to create a divot and align the part under the drill bit by hand. In most materials a simple hole that is smaller than 3/16" will find the center of the divot easily if held by hand and allowed to settle gently into the divot. Typically I don't make an initial hole any larger than 1/8". I then step them out from there if I need a larger hole. If you start too large, holding it by hand gets dangerous. The one thing to watch out for is that the part stays held down and isn't allowed to climb up the drill bit. If the hole is small enough, hand pressure is enough to keep the part in place.
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If I need to hold the part down, I align it by hand and then clamp it down with a table clamp.
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Which brings me to 123 blocks.. I use them constantly. There is no more useful tool for drilling set-ups than a set of 123 blocks IMO. You can see them in pics above and below. They do about a millions things..but in this case they allow you take a level surface and separate it into 2 pieces with a gap for drilling in between. Or, you can use one of the holes as the recess for your drill bit. The more you use them the more things you find you can do with them. I find them so helpful, I have 3 sets..a daily user set, a precision set and an ultra-precision set with no holes.
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If I actually have to hold a piece in a vise to drill it (maybe if it's metal and the hole is large) I use a couple of things..
If it's a basic hole and ultra precision isn't needed I simply use a cheap drilling vise and align it by hand as well. Then I can either hold the vise with my hands or clamp it down depending on what I need.
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If it needs to be precise I hold the part in a precision tool maker's vise. They are made to work well with 123 blocks and together you can create a very accurate level drilling surface for the part to sit on while it's in the vise. Also, for a precise hole I will clamp the part in the vise and use a spot drill to locate the punched divot and hold it down while I lock down the vise. I'll then widen the divot with the spot drill before starting any actual drilling. This way when I change the bit It's aligned and there's a good starter hole to make sure the bit can't walk and doesn't even wobble as it begins cutting.
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For drilling bits I use mostly spiral flute jobbers with 135 degree tips. They can also be purchased individually and that makes it easy to stock up on just the sizes you use. I have found cobalt bits are well worth the slightly higher price. But, if it's critical that a hole be truly round spiral flute bits just aren't good enough. That's when I use straight flute reamers (also cobalt) to ensure a nice round hole.
For corbys and loveless style fasteners I prefer to use carbide counter-bores that are specially made for corbys and produce a perfectly round hole that is about .002 oversize to account for the swelling that happens due to heat in most handle materials.
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Who's next? Now let's see how you do your drilling. :cowboy

CK
Last edited by Xplorer on Thu May 26, 2022 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#2

Post by RustyIron »


Yes, sir. The only thing I like more than carving up metal is talking about carving up metal. You have some fancy tools, but there are some rules that all of us should heed.

1. SLOW DOWN THAT DRILL!!!!!! The common mistake that you'll see a LOT is people running their drill too fast. Excessive speed creates a LOT of heat. Heat not only burns up your drill bit, but it can work harden the material you're drilling. When your work hardens, it becomes even MORE difficult to machine, and your smile turns upside down.

2. Use sufficient pressure on the drill bit so that it CUTS. Insufficient pressure at the cutting edge will allow the tool to skate over the surface, rather than digging in and cutting it, again creating a lot of heat build-up. Refer to Rule 1 to be reminded of what happens to your smile once your work hardens.

3. Use cutting fluid. I use a dark, high-sulphur cutting oil that is available in gallon jugs in the plumbing aisle. Next to each machine tool is a small soup can, with a little oil in it and an acid brush for application. The cutting oil keeps the heat down. Refer to Rule 1. It smells sulfurous; after a while you'll learn to recognize it as the scent of good workmanship.

4. Keep your tools SHARP. Get a bench grinder and learn to sharpen drill bits. This is a knife forum, so I don't need to tell you why sharpness matters. And don't forget the heat.

There are exceptions to these rules, of course. If your name is Eric Glesser or Elon Musk, and you're running Class A machine shops, you have whole libraries of books defining the proper cutting speeds, feed rates, and coolants for different materials. But for the average mutt working in his suburban garage, these are some pretty good guidelines.

On to the other questions. Most of my drill bits are high-speed steel. I have some cobalt and some carbide, but I almost never use them. I'm cheap and save them for the most critical tasks. One thing about drill bits: if they're not made in the United States, England, or Western Europe, do yourself a BIG favor and throw them in the trash. Do it NOW. Those made in China and India will put a bigger frown on your face than that time you dropped your Spyderco Sprint and it sliced your leg before puncturing your raft and then falling into the ocean.

I'll start a hole with a center punch, then follow it with a starter drill with plenty of cutting oil. The starter drill only needs to start a hole, then I switch to something bigger. I'll keep stepping up until I get to whatever I'm shooting for. Don't make the incremental steps too small, because... work hardening.

Clamping? I'll admit that sometimes I just hold a part on the table by hand, but it's not wise. If I'm working with an odd shape like a knife blade, I might forego the vise and just clamp the work to the table... maybe raising it with 1-2-3 blocks, parallels, or any other chunks of metal I have laying about for just such use. I think that's the most secure.

I have one drill press in the garage. It was made with a stepped pulley, but I replaced the driver with the smallest pulley I could fit, just to get it to run slow. For most of my work, though, I use the mill. It's far more versatile, and it's solid state drive allows me to infinitely control the speed. It's also good in that once the work is clamped to the table, I can precisely move it under the drill bit.

To summarize: Sharp tools turning slowly with sufficient pressure and cutting fluid.

I just stepped down to the garage to take a couple pics of my hole-making tools.

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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#3

Post by Fireman »

great thread !!!
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#4

Post by Ramonade »

Superb idea Xplorer !
You already know what I use, and for now it's a bit of everything until I know what works best for me and my use (and future use).
I'll try to make a post later on. I mostly cut through wood for now, I have tons of options for that.

I went to a "brocante" this morning, I think the closest term might be "garage sale" for you? It's the whole town, and it brings a bit of life in our rural lives. A guy that works in putting holes through things just gave me some different types of bits for me to test.
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#5

Post by standy99 »

I just clamp the blade on top of the two sides of the handle and drill through both handles with a piece of scrap wood to stop blow out.

Just pick the drill bit size that matches the diameter of the pin I am using.

Hand drill by eye..

Wild West style I know but it’s got me through 5-6 Mule builds and several other knives.

But ………..

I do have a new (second hand) drill press so might do it a bit better now I have learnt more. Also spent more on many tools the longer I have been tinkering with making knives.
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#6

Post by Xplorer »

RustyIron wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 10:25 pm

Yes, sir. The only thing I like more than carving up metal is talking about carving up metal. You have some fancy tools, but there are some rules that all of us should heed.

1. SLOW DOWN THAT DRILL!!!!!! ....


Thank you for the great response!

Your good advice appears to be referring primarily to the issues surrounding drilling through metal and I agree with every word you wrote. When drilling metal the importance of using the correct speed (or slower) cannot be emphasized enough. I would suggest anyone follow the basic rules you laid out.

Drilling/cutting/tapping fluid is a great suggestion as well. I use a tapping fluid for all my steel and titanium drilling, tapping and small milling work. You can see the yellow bottle in the background of the 10th pic I posted here. I use no lubricant when drilling aluminum and all non-metal handle materials.

Speed is a huge issue for a lot of people. I would imagine it's the number one problem people run into when they're new to drilling. Many drills just won't spin slowly enough for metal applications. My drill press will only drop down to about 550 RPM and when drilling metal parts that's too fast for anything larger than about 1/4". Beyond that I move to the mill so I can go slower. When drilling the "Spydie hole" in a prototype folder blade I'm running at about 300 RPM with tapping/cutting fluid.

I assume most people making Mule handles don't have a sweet knee mill like you, and I also assume they don't try to drill out any holes in tangs. Well maybe a few have tried, but if they did I'm relatively sure they just created a lot of heat and need a new drill bit now. There are ways to open those holes but drill bits won't do it unless the tang is no longer hardened.

Speaking of speed..I was in my Father's shop (he makes fancy wooden things) and I was helping him re-handle a knife for my sister. Most of his tools are fancier than mine, especially the big tools. When I went to use his drill press to drill the corby holes I was shocked at how fast that thing was set to spin. Working with nothing but hardwoods every day he doesn't have the same need for slow speed that I do. As long as his bits are sharp, high speed drilling cuts through hardwood cleanly. High speed also makes holding the part down even more important. Anyway, back at my shop I still drill wood and other handle materials with slower speeds similar to what I use for metal.

My point being, if people are drilling handle materials most drill presses should be able to go slow enough and they won't want to use any cutting fluids on many handle materials as well. The harder the material the slower the drill should go. So, stabilized wood can be drilled at a higher speed than G10 for example. G10, Micarta and the other layered phenolic materials are quite dense, and the heat generated in drilling will cause them to swell. Swelling makes holes shrink and should be avoided if possible. Some swelling my be inevitable which is why my corby counterbores are .002" oversized. If someone has trouble with a swollen hole being too tight, just let it cool off and drill it one more time. Cutting away the small amount caused by the swelling won't generate much heat and the hole should be good to go after that.

Regarding drill bits that come from China (I have no experience with Indian made bits as far as I know) you are soooo right! They're GARBAGE! I bought one of those 115 piece cobalt drill sets from Harbor Freight and all I can say is NEVER AGAIN. It's not a bargain no matter how cheap the set is when 60 of the 115 pieces aren't even sharpened accurately enough to use 1 time. The few that are sharp (probably a lucky accident I assume) don't stay sharp half as long as a good quality bit.
Now I order cobalt bits individually (usually about $1.80 to $4.00 each) and I stock 12 of each size I actually use.

I might need to talk with you about sharpening bits. I have struggled with re-sharpening my bits so much that I just gave up and when a bit is dull I switch to a new one and relegate the old one to a drawer of sized "pins" for temporarily holding things together. Drilling with a dull drill produces sloppy work in soft materials and is a big waste of time in metals.

When we're specifically talking drilling metals I totally agree that holding parts by hand is dangerous. I recently had another danger pop up that is worth mentioning too..
Most of the time when I'm drilling knife steels I don't generate a large ribbon of metal while drilling so if any small ribbons occur and start to wrap around the bit I can usually just brush them off with my hand while it spins (Not suggesting this..just saying I do it on occasion). With aluminum I often get more substantial ribbons because I can take a bigger bite in aluminum but aluminum is soft and the ribbons break away easily so those too I can often just flick away with a finger while it's running (again..I'm not suggesting anyone do this). But recently I was drilling some 304 stainless to make hold-down clamps for a tool vise and made a big mistake. 304 is a little softer than many steels I drill and this hole did not need to be perfect so I was drilling out more than usual with each step to "save time". This created a large ribbon of 304 that wraped around the drill bit. I should have stopped the drill and dealt with it appropriately. Instead I stuck my finger in the ribbon to break it away while it spun. It was tougher than I expected and sharp like a razor. It didn't break. The ribbon wrapped around my finger and somehow I got my finger out as it was cutting into both side of my finger at once. SOOOO STUPID! I was lucky to have kept the end of my finger. I share this in the hopes that this might help someone else avoid potentially loosing one of their digits.

Here's the oversized ribbon still in tact on the drill bit after I cleaned and dressed the cuts. If you look closely you can still see blood on the ribbon in the upper right corner of the picture. In less than a second it cut deep enough to need at least 8 stitches. I didn't take the time to get the stitches because I just don't care about the scars and I was able to get it to heal by holding it together with butterfly bandages. But, it was bad and came very close to being a life changing injury.
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Lastly...that drill bit pic you posted :hushed-face :O I'm feeling little intimidated by the size of that thing! That's quite a large tool you have there ;) .

Thanks for your great contribution to the thread. :smlling-eyes
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#7

Post by Xplorer »

Ramonade wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 7:29 am
Superb idea Xplorer !
You already know what I use, and for now it's a bit of everything until I know what works best for me and my use (and future use).
I'll try to make a post later on. I mostly cut through wood for now, I have tons of options for that.

I went to a "brocante" this morning, I think the closest term might be "garage sale" for you? It's the whole town, and it brings a bit of life in our rural lives. A guy that works in putting holes through things just gave me some different types of bits for me to test.
Discussing drilling with you and reading your conversations with my friend Bolster is primarily what inspired me to start this thread. I figured there are likely a lot of people who could benefit from this discussion.

Garage sales are the BEST places to buy tools. I'm glad to hear you took advantage of that opportunity.

Another reason I thought this thread could be helpful is because buying tools is expensive. I have purchased too many tools that sit on a shelf collecting dust and I'd like to help my fellow Mule Makers with what I've learned so that hopefully some of you guys will be able to avoid buying things you don't need and keep your tool expenditures to what is really necessary. Seeing how other people do things can be quite helpful in this regard.

I look forward to seeing your next project.
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#8

Post by Xplorer »

standy99 wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 7:56 am
I just clamp the blade on top of the two sides of the handle and drill through both handles with a piece of scrap wood to stop blow out.

Just pick the drill bit size that matches the diameter of the pin I am using.

Hand drill by eye..

Wild West style I know but it’s got me through 5-6 Mule builds and several other knives.

But ………..

I do have a new (second hand) drill press so might do it a bit better now I have learnt more. Also spent more on many tools the longer I have been tinkering with making knives.
Thank you for the response Andy!

I think your method is likely to be the most common way people here will drill their handles too. Your results are excellent and I think you are a great example for people to follow. It doesn't take a lot of tools to do good work, just some fore-thought and a steady hand is all it really takes to drill handles.

When it comes to spending money on tools I see it as investing money in myself. To me tools are not things, they're capabilities once I learn how to properly use them. So while I want to help people avoid buying tools they don't need I also encourage you and everyone else to invest in themselves and expand their capabilities if you enjoy making stuff. It is obvious to me that YOU enjoy making stuff. It's also apparent that you have real talent when it comes to making. I call it the "maker gene" and you sir have got it!

And, on another topic thank you for the Akubra suggestion. A Banjo Patterson is going to be my next hat purchase now thanks to you. ...by that I mean I'm going to tell my wife it was your fault I had to buy it. :winking-tongue
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#9

Post by Bolster »

Great thread! Sorry I have not been around the forum as much lately; I have an ongoing issue with elder care that is taking most my time. But while I’m going to sleep at night, I fantasize about getting back to the shop and making knife handles and kydex sheaths!

Regards drilling: one of the most important skills used in hafting, no? Agree with above posts (and enjoyed looking at CK’s Starrett swag). In addition, or perhaps reinforcement, the following techniques have worked well for me:

1) Using a “centering countersink pilot bit” to start a hole…they’re so thick they don’t wander. Could care less about the “countersink” part, except that it tapers from thick to thin and gives rigidity. I’ve experienced many failures trying to an accurate hole with a thin standard drill bit…they wander about, follow the grain. Stout countersink pilot bits stay on target and are a great way to start a hole.

Everybody has a different name for them. These things:

Image

2) I seldom ever use just one bit to drill a hole. Typically will start with the C-sink and work my way up through 2 or 3 bit changes. I *should* be finishing with reamers...I own them, but often am happy enough with the final drill hole.

3) I really enjoy using “screw machine” aka “stub length” bits as opposed to the standard jobber bits…less flex! When the size is right, I just use a center cutting mill bit…those are extremely rigid compared to jobber drill bits.

https://www.mcmaster.com/end-mills/for- ... d-mills-9/

4) My machinist teacher kept telling me to apply sufficient down-feed so my bits CUT, didn’t just SKATE on the surface. Finally I am following his good advice. I put a fairly heavy down-pressure on bits when drilling metal now, and use a good cutting oil. And of course (goes without saying) you match the speed of the drill with the size of the bit and the material drilled, as per the many drill speed guides available. Such as available here:

https://woodworkadvice.com/drills/press/speed-chart/
https://data.templateroller.com/pdf_doc ... rt_big.png

5) I only use a freehand drill when I’ve no other option. I’ve been brought to tears so many times with freehand holes, I have converted almost entirely to drill press and mill. I wish I had a lathe…that gives the best hole of all through long stock. When I'm working remote and haven't access to my bench tools, I often carry a drill guide, which makes a handheld drill somewhat more accurate. Better than freehand. If you don't have a drill press, consider one of these thingies, but buy a quality one:

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6) Drill press called the most dangerous machine in the shop, by some. Why? It catches the work and swings it. has happened way more times than I’ll ever admit. Solution? Clamp. Clamp, clamp, clamp, clamp.

7) I own a Drill Doctor drill sharpener. I can’t say I’m expert with it, but my results with it are certainly better than with using dull bits. It works better for large bits. For smaller bits, just buy new.

8) I use the numbered and lettered drill bits a lot. They're just more precise than fractional.

PS: Thanks CK for the warning on steel ribbons. I'm so accustomed to brushing away aluminum ribbons with my bare hand, that (quote) "There but for the grace of God..." (and your post) "...go I."
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#10

Post by JRinFL »

Thanks to everyone on this thread for freely sharing your tips, knowledge, and scars experiences.
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#11

Post by RustyIron »


Back in the before times, there was a dude named Lindsay. His company was Lindsay Publications. He reprinted a LOT of old technical books that were in the public domain. He had stuff on old engines, locomotives, cars, machine tools, farming, embalming, home foundries, and a thousand other things I can't remember. His books were CHEAP. He provided a great service. One of the Lindsay reprints on my shelf is "Handbook for Drillers," originally published by the Cleveland Twist Drill Company.

Unfortunately, just like Ron Popeil and Drew Kaplan, Lindsay eventually faded away. You can't buy his books any more. Do not despair! Lucky for us, Al Gore came along and invented the Internet so now we can download free movies, music, and books. Below is the link to "Handbook for Drillers." Even though it's a hundred years old, the principles of drilling have not changed. There's a lot of useful information there.


https://ia903100.us.archive.org/27/item ... illers.pdf
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#12

Post by standy99 »

Xplorer wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:15 pm
standy99 wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 7:56 am
I just clamp the blade on top of the two sides of the handle and drill through both handles with a piece of scrap wood to stop blow out.

Just pick the drill bit size that matches the diameter of the pin I am using.

Hand drill by eye..

Wild West style I know but it’s got me through 5-6 Mule builds and several other knives.

But ………..

I do have a new (second hand) drill press so might do it a bit better now I have learnt more. Also spent more on many tools the longer I have been tinkering with making knives.
Thank you for the response Andy!

I think your method is likely to be the most common way people here will drill their handles too. Your results are excellent and I think you are a great example for people to follow. It doesn't take a lot of tools to do good work, just some fore-thought and a steady hand is all it really takes to drill handles.

When it comes to spending money on tools I see it as investing money in myself. To me tools are not things, they're capabilities once I learn how to properly use them. So while I want to help people avoid buying tools they don't need I also encourage you and everyone else to invest in themselves and expand their capabilities if you enjoy making stuff. It is obvious to me that YOU enjoy making stuff. It's also apparent that you have real talent when it comes to making. I call it the "maker gene" and you sir have got it!

And, on another topic thank you for the Akubra suggestion. A Banjo Patterson is going to be my next hat purchase now thanks to you. ...by that I mean I'm going to tell my wife it was your fault I had to buy it. :winking-tongue
Thanks for your kind words Chad…..

I have just tried to say as you mentioned. A file, saw, drill and two clamps you can make a handle.
Some epoxy and sandpaper from your local hardware and your good to go.

The true beauty is having something that you built yourself.

Each one I have done better than the last and I try to change materials up to challenge my skill.

Image

Latest in Ultem is challenging me to work with something outside the square with little information but just doing and trying.

Image


But I must take my Akubra hat off to Chad and many here that show their work and how they do it, SO all can learn.

Like me only happy to answer a PM with a question and some tips to newbie makers…
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#13

Post by Xplorer »

Bolster wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 5:17 pm
Great thread! Sorry I have not been around the forum as much lately; I have an ongoing issue with elder care that is taking most my time. But while I’m going to sleep at night, I fantasize about getting back to the shop and making knife handles and kydex sheaths!
I thought that might be the case but I was hoping I was mistaken. I'm glad to hear you're able to be there to provide the care that is needed. :preying

Thank you for another excellent post.

Countersink bits are indeed a great suggestion for starting a hole. Also one that hadn't been mentioned yet, thank you.

Also, I'm glad you brought up "stubbies". I use them primarily for holes in metal and they are much more rigid. I don't usually have any trouble with jobbers flexing, walking or deflecting when drilling handle materials but metal is a different story. In most cases a stubby is long enough for handle applications and I would second your suggestion to use stubbies. I'd even say they're a better overall choice than jobber length bits.

For those reading this that are not sure what the difference between a jobber and a stubby looks like here's a #13 jobber .185" next to a 3/16" .1875 stubby. The shorter length (mostly the shorter flutes) makes for a more stable bit.
Image

I agree about how dangerous a drill press can be. It can spin pieces into your hands, it can throw parts at high speed and if it grabs your clothes it will suck you into it. I think the most dangerous part is that they seem like the most docile tool in the shop. It's all too easy to get comfortable with it and get a bit lax about safety. I hope anyone reading along understands how serious safety precautions are when using power tools.

That all said I personally think a buffer is the most dangerous tool in my shop. I've scared the crap out of myself too many times. I'll admit that more than twice :shush I've had sharp metal things yanked out of my hand and thrown so fast I can't see where they went and found myself saying OMG I'm lucky to be alive right now. There are some serious safety rules for buffers, but that's for a different thread.

Thank you again for your post chock full of good info. and advice!
Last edited by Xplorer on Fri May 27, 2022 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#14

Post by Xplorer »

RustyIron wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 9:12 pm

Back in the before times, there was a dude named Lindsay. His company was Lindsay Publications. He reprinted a LOT of old technical books that were in the public domain. He had stuff on old engines, locomotives, cars, machine tools, farming, embalming, home foundries, and a thousand other things I can't remember. His books were CHEAP. He provided a great service. One of the Lindsay reprints on my shelf is "Handbook for Drillers," originally published by the Cleveland Twist Drill Company.

Unfortunately, just like Ron Popeil and Drew Kaplan, Lindsay eventually faded away. You can't buy his books any more. Do not despair! Lucky for us, Al Gore came along and invented the Internet so now we can download free movies, music, and books. Below is the link to "Handbook for Drillers." Even though it's a hundred years old, the principles of drilling have not changed. There's a lot of useful information there.


https://ia903100.us.archive.org/27/item ... illers.pdf
Thank you for adding this link here! Thanks to all of the great contributions this thread is turning out to be the good resource for people wanting to learn that I was hoping it could be.
:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#15

Post by Xplorer »

standy99 wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 10:15 pm
...
I have just tried to say as you mentioned. A file, saw, drill and two clamps you can make a handle.
Some epoxy and sandpaper from your local hardware and your good to go.

The true beauty is having something that you built yourself.
...
At the end of the day hard work and determination is what gets it done. I have a ton of respect for your "can-do" approach as well as your results. I find the more time and effort I have to put into a knife the more I appreciate what I built when it's done. You have a lot to be proud of in those beautiful Mules you've built.
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Bolster
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#16

Post by Bolster »

RustyIron wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 9:12 pm

Back in the before times, there was a dude named Lindsay...
https://ia903100.us.archive.org/27/item ... illers.pdf


How cool is this! Thank you Rusty!!

Don't know why, but I love to read vintage shop manuals. Amazes me what our grand-dads could accomplish with, if they were lucky, one electric motor they'd move from machine to machine, to run their entire shop. Or their fathers, who used a single central rotating shaft (possibly powered by a water wheel!) in a workshop that was used to power everything with leather belts running from the central shaft. Now imagine how difficult it would have been in, say, Roman times, to make huge intricate marble columns without an engine of any sort.

And look at us. A trove of 18V Milwaukee Fuel tools...our forefathers would have sacrificed an arm to have them...yawn...I got 'em on sale at Home Depot.
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#17

Post by RustyIron »

Bolster wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 10:07 am
Or their fathers, who used a single central rotating shaft (possibly powered by a water wheel!) in a workshop that was used to power everything with leather belts running from the central shaft.
What you're describing is called a "line shaft." Like you said, it was very practical if the machinery was being run by a water wheel or a single steam engine. There are plenty of guys still running line shafts for commercial work, or in their personal shops. This sort of thing is right up my alley.

You'd probably like some of my toys. I'll add a couple YouTube videos below.

The first video is Mrs. Iron and me introducing our dog to an 1890 dog power from the Vermont Farm Equipment Company. Back in the 1890's, all members of the family needed to earn their keep. Dogs and goats could be used for small tasks like churning butter, washing clothes, or pumping water. Our dog was an attention whore, and LOVED going out to events where she'd get to do some work, and then get attention from kids.

The second video is an 1860's Whitman's Americus apple press. Actually, this one was originally hand powered, but when we have an apple party, we squeeze a LOT of apples, so I belted it up to a 1920 Lorenz gasoline engine.

The dog power wouldn't be so good for drilling holes, but the gasoline engine would work fine, although it's too small to run a shop.

Dog power:



Cider press:





.
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Xplorer
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#18

Post by Xplorer »

^That's awesome! As a dog lover I'm watching and can't help saying out loud "oh, what a good dog! :smiling-heart-eyes "

Old tools are really cool! I am slowly collecting them whenever the opportunity presents itself. But, THOSE old tools are on a whole other level...just amazing!
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#19

Post by standy99 »

Have we gone over it was a Australian that invented the electric drill

Arthur James Arnot

http://nathzassignment9dt.weebly.com/ar ... arnot.html
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.
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Re: Let's talk Drilling.

#20

Post by Xplorer »

I know we're getting side-tracked and I'll try to steer us back, but old tools is a subject I can't resist commenting on.

My grandfathers on both sides of the family were engineers. One was aeronautics and the other aerospace. Both enjoyed making things in their free time. I have been fortunate to have been able to save a few of the older tools that were in their home workshops (nothing anywhere near as cool as Rusty's tools, but stuff I enjoy anyway). In addition to an assortment of old wood saws, t-squares and wooden levels I really relish the few old tools that I am able to put back into service. One thing about old tools is that many of them were made so exceptionally well that they will still work well to this day.

For example..this Van Dorn grinder is pre-1928. Back we they felt it necessary to spell out clearly that this operated on "Alternating Current" rather than just A/C. It still works perfectly, spins quietly and I use it today to do orange peel finishes on titanium parts. In 1928 Van Dorn was purchased by the Black and Decker Co which was the first company to produce the portable electric drill.
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This 1950s era Columbian Vice & MFG woodworkers vise still works perfectly and has been transformed into a tool for plate quenching blades.
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This 65 year old Wilson Rockwell hardness tester sat in an aerospace factory for decades. It's outer surfaces collected a lot of dust and patina over those years, but it was only used occasionally. Since it was used for aerospace however, it was required to maintain current calibration up until it was retired. I saw it sitting in the corner and asked the factory manager what they were going to do with it. He said, "load it in your truck if you want it"...he was willing to give it to me for free because of a favor I had done for him, so I offered him $100, he said no and I celebrated all the way home! I expected it would require a huge, expensive re-build and it turns out the internal parts were still like new. After getting a new diamond indenter and doing a minor calibration adjustment it's smooth as butter and accurate as it was when it was new.
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OK back to drilling...these old square shank wood boring bits from grandpa's shop are nothing like what we have available today and yet somehow people were building some really good, high quality products with tools like these.
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:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
@ckc_knifemaker on Instagram.
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