Which Past Mule Teams Would You Like to See Repeated?

[jmj3esq]

I would choose Damascus.

[curdog]

Would love to see k390 and 52100

[bobartig]

I'd love to see a bunch of Mule repeats, particularly of older and less common steels (they seem incredibly hard to pick up on the secondary). From the perspective of the Mule project, there doesn't seem to be a point. For example, I want an LC200N mule for sure. Probably multiples to test and some to give away. What's the point when Spyderco already has multiple models in LC200N, which is thousands more data points already out there? There's no collective additive learning by distributing more Mules of that now (unless it's really different than the last time). Same with Magnacut and a bunch of other things.

[Josh Crutchley]

I think doing a second run of certain steel makes sense if they're using an improved heat treatment. Out of the steels on your list I would go with Cruwear, K390, and Maxamet. Out of all the past Mules I would like to see PSF27, ZDP-189, and 52100 redone.

[VandymanG]

Would be grateful for any steel that sold out in the first day. Especially Magnacut.

[Bolster]

S90V.

[TomAiello]

My thinking on this continues to evolve, but at this point I think Damascus is the one I really would like to play with. I've always seen Damascus blades as 'pretty not functional' and I'd be very interested in doing abusive testing on one to see how well it held up.

[VandymanG]

My thinking on this continues to evolve, but at this point I think Damascus is the one I really would like to play with. I've always seen Damascus blades as 'pretty not functional' and I'd be very interested in doing abusive testing on one to see how well it held up.

I like. But I think the Damascus they made earlier has a VG 10 core. But yeah I’d love to see that one ran again since I didn’t know about the mule team back then.

[mooniesdl3]

I chose 3, all 3 are in the lead lol, Maxamet, K390 and MagnaCut

[Nottoby]

Elmax

[Nottoby]

All of them i am sure you will sell them all!

[weeping minora]

I put in for Maxamet and S45VN.

Taichung is doing an excellent heat-treatment of Maxamet. I'd be really stoked for the opportunity to pick up and use a nice piece of Maxamet in a fixed blade, at a decent price. This would make a killer comparison piece up against a REX 121 Mule.

I'd also like a piece of S45VN to test and compare against my SPY27 Mule. Those rather vanilla flavored powdered steels just work so well, and I feel like S45 didn't really get a fair shake at just 500 pieces.

[VeraX_Knives]

Taichung is doing an excellent heat-treatment of Maxamet.

They always have and that's why I also put in for it but.. Maxamet I would think* is a little easier to heat treat but they said 68 and Rockwell said.. 68. Not 68.25 not 67.75. I was surprised and became a customer instantly. I'm calling that a fluke obviously but hey, lol, that's why marketing isn't necessary for some people like me lol as you'll read my rants on it later.

You do make a really good point here that I disregarded entirely with my brain. These are fixed blades. Maxamet would fit almost perfectly (IMO) in that category of 20%+ carbide alloys, and I definitely would.. agree with you there essentially. Got some stock thickness questions and whatnot for Spyderco but I can find their angles on the internet. I was going to type out this big thing but it's not really necessary.


Put it this way, if you guys do a run of Maxamet or entertain it, please contact me which is pretty easy to do and I'll make it worth the companies while to ship some to me to play around with the heat treatments. It's not about the money to me. I will actually make it worth the companies time..


I'm just looking at computer models and moreso than that, literally my gut more than my brain, and thinking that it's probably pretty easy to heat treat. We think of these things as hard, whereas the real sciencey stuff actually is moreso an issue with normal hypoeutectic steels or hypereutectic aluminum alloys. My last post about Cr and Si in hslas is sorta similar in content though and I.. I honestly expect most people here to know that stuff. I can't say that I actually do know that they do or don't, and while I could comment for days with certain people here, I'm still trying to figure out what my purpose is here because it would definitely fit.. more into the people who are making the knives following currently known science like Spyderco and.. well you guys do market the HECK out of this stuff (not in a negative connotation or anything like that just business) so I'd be lying there and we went over the rules that I'll obey lol.

But my point is that this just isn't exactly... The place for research and development. It's marketing feedback... Similar but different.

On s45vn? It's garbage in my experience on multiple heat treatments and heats of different chemistry. It seemed like someone just got lazy and screwed up a batch of s35 and figured hey it works. I've never met ANYONE who likes s45vn. I don't know this but I would probably prefer spy27, I've never tried it before. I need to be able to kinda heat treat things how I know if I'm going to do the testing.. to the extent that I tend to do. And no, FYI cause I know it's a real thing sociologically -- Just because I went to school whatever does not mean that is the group of people that I hang out with or are friends with. It's actually the exact opposite with me..I cannot stand most people that have any college degree. I know that breaks the "norm". If there's one word that doesn't describe me? It's "normal". Abnormal, okay

Edit: I remember you from bladeforums. As with sal, we probably got off on a misunderstanding on the internet due to my inability to have patience for false information or incomplete information that.. has been my personality since I have been alive. I know how I can come off over text. It's not exactly news to me but I don't exactly remember what happened on bladeforums so I figured that I owed you an apology for any misunderstandings or something that were my fault.

Would be grateful for any steel that sold out in the first day. Especially Magnacut.

Sal, I don't know what I can say here and not say. But if like.. one of you wanted magna cut I have.. around 160 pounds of it that I don't use. I think you know that I wouldn't charge these guys a profit and eat the material cost, time equipment yada yada yada but essentially what I am saying is that if you want to heat treat it yourself, that works, if you want me to heat treat it on a KO22.5, then Rockwell test it and CNC the steel, whatever honestly but I'd have to set up new things please don't ask me to do that one lol but I.. this has nothing to do with VeraX Knives or anything like that I know my attorneys here would be having a fit but. My opinion on attorneys isn't PG-13. Let me know if I should delete this part of the post or not. Just trying to help some other nerds lol. Or!, or, it's njm coded Niagara. I'm looking to get rid of it and it's rather thick stock (.175). If you guys wanted it I am well aware that I'm taking a loss on it I'm... honestly more concerned about space than money so. If ya want to help a guy out.... hahaha. (I see legal issues there but had to bring it up)

Jay

[sal]

Thanx Jason, but we have plenty of steel.

sal

[VeraX_Knives]

Thanx Jason, but we have plenty of steel.

sal

10-4 LC. I sort of meant the users here because I forgot that this isn't a "knife maker" forum, but quickly realized my mistake. I'm honestly not sure why Mike asked me here he's.. very smart and did marketing basically. He knows that type isn't really me or anything like that lol. I actually hate it. I guess if there was a sub forum of "mule testing and destruction", that's where I would fit in.

[weeping minora]

I don't recall interacting with you over on Blade Forums, Jason. Doesn't necessarily mean we haven't, but I take no offense to any misunderstanding that we may have had. My posts could be criticized for incomplete information, but I never post false information to the best of my understanding. I'm not always patient or available enough to document my posts as thoroughly as I could, or as clearly as I should. Hindsight is always 20/20 when you get called out regarding such mistakes. I'm not affiliated within the knife making world and don't proclaim to be, and am always open to correction if I'm wrong. Most of my posts are from my own opinion or understanding of a subject in discussion.

I believe this is the sub forum for all things Mule-related; testing, destruction, discussion, etc. Most folks don't seem to be much into posting about any such testing here though, which is perhaps why you may feel otherwise. Anyone is free to post such information related to the Mule Team. I believe many of the members here on the forum are interested as Spyderco fans/collectors, or just hobbyists/enthusiasts, and have much of their time either invested elsewhere, or at a level that is not of great "scientific value", that can be perceived to benefit usage, or an overall understanding of steel, from a more objective standpoint, i.e. controlled testing, metallurgy, heat-treating, etc. Most of the reports here are anecdotal, which could be construed as "flawed", depending on the level of knowledge and experience that the reader may possess. Doesn't necessarily mean anyone is wrong, but we all possess different levels of understanding, knowledge, and/or experience.

[sal]

Hi Jason,

As with Weeping Minora, I have no memory of communicating with you at all, much less a misunderstanding, and my memory is not bad, despite my age.

I don't get involved with Blade Forums except for moderating our own Subforum there. Bladeforums is Spark's "baby", his forum, his rules, with which I try to respect. Here, it's my forum, my rules.

We are all members here. We have a few here that have demonstrated exceptional understanding in some areas, like Larrin, Phil Wilson, Ed Schempp and Shawn Houston, in steel, heat treat and edges. They are all willing to share their experience. Others in other areas, that have also demonstrated their contributions to our forum. We park our ego's at the keyboard and share in our mutual interests.

While I appreciate your willingness to help and offer your expertise, but at this point, I've not personally seen much from you, or even Mike to give you the recognition for which you believe you are entitled. You may be an expert in all of these areas that you and Mike profess to be, and I'm sure, if you guys hang here, you will have your opportunities to assist in our learning.

I've known Larrin, Phil, Ed and Shawn for many years and we've had opportunities to test their knowledge to determine its value to our forum and our company. To be honest, my crew and I are not slouches when it comes to understanding the edge.

When Mike offered his "opinion" on serrations earlier, I was offended that he would treat me like an ignorant child, and expect me to just accept his thoughts as facts. The fact is that I have produced more serrated folders than anyone in the world and I don't think that there is much that Mike can teach me about serrations. That doesn't mean I can't learn. I am humble enough to believe that I can always learn.

I have also had he opportunity to honor our members here with many blade steels for them to use and learn from.

If you feel that you have knowledge that can contribute to our producing a better, product, We're all ears. Let us know your particular heat treat secrets, and we have a pretty good lab that we can test your offerings.

When Larrin offered his excellent MagnaCut, we made a Mule for our folks here to test and we did extensive testing on our own. We worked with Larrin and Shawn to refine the heat treat and we discovered it's exceptional corrosion resistance, in our lab, that even Larrin hadn't pitched, and we offered his steel as a "Salt" which surprised many in the industry. And now, we see many in the industry following our lead. We all learned.

If you wish to share your thoughts on anything that will help us improve our products, or the industry in any way, let us know and we will try them, and test them on our own.

sal
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"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to humankind".

[RamZar]

So true. Always Be Learning! There is no one way!

[VeraX_Knives]

I don't recall interacting with you over on Blade Forums, Jason. Doesn't necessarily mean we haven't, but I take no offense to any misunderstanding that we may have had. My posts could be criticized for incomplete information, but I never post false information to the best of my understanding. I'm not always patient or available enough to document my posts as thoroughly as I could, or as clearly as I should. Hindsight is always 20/20 when you get called out regarding such mistakes. I'm not affiliated within the knife making world and don't proclaim to be, and am always open to correction if I'm wrong. Most of my posts are from my own opinion or understanding of a subject in discussion.

I believe this is the sub forum for all things Mule-related; testing, destruction, discussion, etc. Most folks don't seem to be much into posting about any such testing here though, which is perhaps why you may feel otherwise. Anyone is free to post such information related to the Mule Team. I believe many of the members here on the forum are interested as Spyderco fans/collectors, or just hobbyists/enthusiasts, and have much of their time either invested elsewhere, or at a level that is not of great "scientific value", that can be perceived to benefit usage, or an overall understanding of steel, from a more objective standpoint, i.e. controlled testing, metallurgy, heat-treating, etc. Most of the reports here are anecdotal, which could be construed as "flawed", depending on the level of knowledge and experience that the reader may possess. Doesn't necessarily mean anyone is wrong, but we all possess different levels of understanding, knowledge, and/or experience.

This would have been years ago and under a different name likely, it was something so stupid that I don't even remember I just remember usernames and don't apologize because I was probably the one in the wrong there. I agree with you entirely on what you said there.

Sal, I agree we never really did argue with one another or even talk about anything according to my memory. I believe that all of this is coming from a misunderstanding of likely me and Mike on the internet. As you said, you know Larrin and Shawn, two people who I wouldn't trust a dog with, however I know that they are well educated enough that while I guess I could go down the rabbit holes on.. scientific details that Larrin usually doesn't (for a good reason in my opinion also) but I don't because mostly it's stuff that you can't really talk about with to just anyone and these miscommunications can occur. I can't speak for Mike but I read the thread on serrations so I'm going to lol. That was a misreading of his intentions. He never actually thought that he knew more about serrations than you did in a indoor/outdoor difference type way. I know this because he told me about the post before I joined here and said sure post it why not. He should not have included pictures of Spyderco serrations because it made it seem like it was a comparison deal. His real intentions as were relayed to me, was just trying to learn something that I supposedly didn't explain well enough to him about why.. micro serrations work but aren't often used in kitchen knives and never in a folder basically.

As far as my comments go, it would be I'm not.. looking at this as a place to necessarily spit out potential alloys or discuss chemistry or physics (I do this over discord channels), but rather more a "marketing feedback". As where I would fit in, would be what your company is literally currently doing for the next mule release. And if there was like some specific discussion about it or I didn't know how business works unfortunately lol, I'd easily set any past issues with Larrin and Shawn to rest for an actual discussion. I have shared my high cr high si alloy ideas with Larrin. We don't get along sal. It's not my decision to make necessarily. It always becomes a competition instead of a theoretical discussion which is why I hate academia, and don't really hang out with people like me in real life at all and that's also not really a decision just... The learned behavior that going to school makes people. I'd have to include prescription medications prescribed in 2024 in there also. If anyone can tell me that science isn't a little club of words that mean the same thing as common ones to normal people are? I'm listening lol. I really didn't think that was what people wanted here, especially after we both sort of agreed that.. the same experiment can have multiple conclusions...that tend to change over time and the fact that there IS a large difference between knowing something and understanding it. Yet we call that science. I consider it more of still a 'question theorey'. I'm sure there will be a post about something that I can comment on in detail about, but take the HIC mule. I don't even know what that is exactly (although I think it's a UK owned thing) and without the physical properties it really isn't scientific at all lol. I can't get information that, for valid reasons which I do understand, you're not able to release yet. That's mainly why I didn't really say anything because I don't like typing something that may be incorrect and I wouldn't know if it was or not. I do of course being human, but I do always admit when I'm wrong also. I run a business also (have for years before I got into knives doing programming), much smaller and different but same principles apply obviously. Honestly sal, I'm just used to phone calls and attorneys honestly not for litigation reasons but.. secretarial stuff that I don't do in the instance of say me wanting the information from a company that you are contracting with in some way shape or form in Switzerland to produce the blanks or something similar to that. I don't know I don't work there haha. There's in my personal opinion a lot that we haven't tried with steel alloys that can be done nowadays but.. is this really the place for that over a mat sci discord channel? (Think like PM, just with multiple people and voice talking) I was told to avoid that stuff here and that made sense.

I also do a lot better when people ask me questions.. not me.. commenting on other things which is why I have all of my personal information available to anyone who can see my signature. Just for the record*. It has to do with the "why" and "how" to what I'm being asked. It's taking.. ground effect and explaining what happens when and how and why or suchlike. Or cooking a hamburger right even. Or cooking temperature compounds that we're all exposed to and I don't think anyone actually cares about it. I drink water in plastic bottles. I doubt I'm the only one lol

[TkoK83Spy]

Sometimes less is more...