POLL: Should Mule Team purchases be limited to one???

[The Mastiff]

Some people use programs to place their orders so that the average person cannot compete with that.

Perhaps that is it. I have ordered mules since the program began but the last few have been unavailable to me using the same techniques I used since the beginning all those years ago. Something sure has changed.

[JRinFL]

In keeping with the original intent of the program, I would say that Mules should only go to knife makers and a handful of known knife testers. None to the casuals such as myself. Thankfully, Sal and Spyderco don't see it that way and place a very reasonable limit of 2 Mules to anyone who wants them.

[Araignee]

IMHO whatever the selling method, all interested forum members should be able to buy at least one Mule.

I don't know if it's possible, but I'd rather see Mule's sold in a "order book" fashion. Order as many as you'd like, we're opening the books for a week and making that quantity plus some for SFO. We'll ship them out when the production run is complete. This would reduce scalping and eliminate under/over production worries.

Exactly this

With this commercial model, everyone will be happy. Spyderco is guaranteed to sell the vast majority of what it produces, knife enthusiasts get a stress-free buying experience, and flippers are dead in the water because since scarcity has been eliminated they have no reason to exist anymore.

If manufacture-to-order works well for the likes of Kickstarter and Indigogo, there's no reason why it wouldn't for Spyderco.

[Mini2white]

I seem to have a failure every time I try to buy one. I asked my friend the last 2 times to try and the site crashes. If I am ever successful I want 2, and no I am not paying the flippers their stupid money. So now I will try again and ship to a proxy, because shipping to us is too hard for USPS.

[sal]

Hi Mini2white,

I'm sure it can be frustrating. We didn't have this problem "back in the day". The new popularity certainly has us looking for solutions. My plan is for everyone that wants one (or 2) should be able to get them.

Also the "regular production" model in-the-works will help.

Solutions like DansGearAdiction posted have a lot of potential problems because of the time lines involved.

Many of the steels that I, Eric or you choose are not easily available. Sometimes I have to work with the foundry or even special order a chemistry, which they have on the books, but not in the ware-house. My K390 project years just to get a batch of steel. Then another year to learn and process the steel to get the optimal performance. Many will not be around or will have lost interest? The bookkeeping would be a nightmare as well as required communication. Add to that we are working on 4-8 steels at any given time. Do we give refunds if necessary for one reason or another?

I really can't burden the manufacturing with these oddball projects of mine that are more challenging and less profitable than other models. To me, simple is best and generally more efficient. A self closing door using gravity is simpler and more effective than springs.

I appreciate your patience and suggestions which are all valuable in making plans. I'm a bit surprised that it became a demand problem, but I'm determined to sort it. Having knife afi's use and share experience on these Mules, I think is a good thing. We all get an opportunity to give and get first hand empirical information on something really new. Now I'm seeing tutorials that are frankly amazing for a group of like minded aficionado's drilling down for knowledge, which is readily shared. Impressive values.

Spyderco gets firsthand feedback which helps us make decisions based on our customers. It doesn't get better than that.

The current plan is to make larger quantities. MagnaCut probably could have used more than the 2,000 that we made, but that's how we learn? Current orders are for enough steel to make 1500 pieces per run for the next 5 or 6 runs and see trends for better "guessing" of how many you want us to make. If some flavors are more desirable, we'll put it in a knife for you.

We also have a "production Mule Team" in the works that we'll keep in stock all of the time. Same handle, slightly different spine (a bit more straight) to easily tell the difference, but same handle shape and will fit the same sheaths.

Kristi, Mike and I are also monitoring the forum, which gives us an opportunity to hear you. So Thanx much and be patient while you help us sort this.

sal

[Crox]

Nice. Production mule seems like a great idea. You should consider running a knife company

[swknight]

They MESSED up the coins (allowing the slabbers to buy them them out) at the U.S. Mint so bad that many just forget it now-a-days. The same thing will happen to these.

[Woodpuppy]

Ooh a production Mule Team! But what steel?

[Araignee]

Hi Mini2white,

I'm sure it can be frustrating. We didn't have this problem "back in the day". The new popularity certainly has us looking for solutions. My plan is for everyone that wants one (or 2) should be able to get them.

[...]

Sal, thank you so much for attempting to address the availability problem and being open about your procurement challenges. This level of transparency with your customer base is very appreciated.

Thrilled to hear that a Perennial Mule is being planned !
This should indeed alleviate the buying pressure.

Thinking about it, whilst placing an order with an indefinite delivery time may not constitute an issue for most of us on the forum, it would inevitably - and despite numerous warnings upon ordering - lead to a number of disgruntled clients whining loudly to the tune of "Spyderco has SCAMMED me out of my money !!! I've been waiting for two years and they STILL haven't delivered the knife I had ordered !!!!" This would cause unfair, yet actual reputational damage to the company.

As for how to smoothen the buying experience with minimal changes, what FullScaler suggested early on page 1 of this thread is worth considering. More bandwidth and possibly some bot prevention CAPTCHA.

I also considered proposing a "short reservation" system, where each prospective buyer would have 15 minutes to pay and confirm the order. Past this timeframe, the person would lose his chance to buy a Mule, which would go to the next person in line. This would possibly reduce the stress on the Spyderco server, and certainly on the buyers - who'd have ample time to switch payment methods, etc.
However I'm not sure it'd be viable because such a change would probably entail overhauling your entire e-shopping engine.

[sal]

They MESSED up the coins (allowing the slabbers to buy them them out) at the U.S. Mint so bad that many just forget it now-a-days. The same thing will happen to these.

Hi Swknight,

Welcome to our forum.

Not sure what you mean? Slabbers?

sal

[sal]

Ooh a production Mule Team! But what steel?

Hi Woodpuppy,

SPY-27

sal

[cycleguy]

NICE! A must buy for me...

[Woodpuppy]

Ooh a production Mule Team! But what steel?

Hi Woodpuppy,

SPY-27

sal

Kewl. A totally reasonable choice! I’ve been thinking SPY27 would/should begin to make more of a showing in production knives.

[ladybug93]

i understand the sentiment of wanting to limit to one, but i think people would be less likely to really test and abuse the blades if they only had one. i think it would just hurt the project in a different way because there would be more mule team safe queens. i think we just have to deal with the fact that people are going to take advantage and make a conscious effort to not support them by buying the blades for astronomical prices.

[attila]

We also have a "production Mule Team" in the works that we'll keep in stock all of the time. Same handle, slightly different spine (a bit more straight) to easily tell the difference, but same handle shape and will fit the same sheaths.

Kristi, Mike and I are also monitoring the forum, which gives us an opportunity to hear you. So Thanx much and be patient while you help us sort this.

sal

Hi Sal!

I’ll echo what other have said: thank you to you, Kristi, and Mike for being engaged and patient with us. It’s really a pleasure to be here in large part because of your listening to us and tolerating our sometimes outlandish/hair-brained ideas.

I would like to bring something up with you since you mentioned the mule sheath. I noticed it years ago, yet no one else seems to have noticed or at least hasn’t mentioned it:
The kick (index finger guard) of the mule blades prevents them from fitting properly into the sheath that’s made specifically for the model.

Is this something that Spyderco knows?
Was it intentional to prevent the blades from seating too deeply in the sheath?
Is there a different reason?

I recently modified a mule of mine to fit better into the leather mule sheath, and I have comparison photos here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=91463&p=1587134#p1586921

Thank you for your time!

[sal]

Thanx Attila,

I'll look into that. Mostly I use leather sheaths. I did try a Boltaron sheath on one of my Mules, which I do not have here. I don't remember seeing an issue, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

BTW, my plan for the regular Mule will also have a version with teeth.

sal

[Fireman]

I think Saint Sal dropped a bombshell. Serrated mule?

Thanx Attila,

I'll look into that. Mostly I use leather sheaths. I did try a Boltaron sheath on one of my Mules, which I do not have here. I don't remember seeing an issue, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

BTW, my plan for the regular Mule will also have a version with teeth.

sal

[Josh Crutchley]

Thanx Attila,

I'll look into that. Mostly I use leather sheaths. I did try a Boltaron sheath on one of my Mules, which I do not have here. I don't remember seeing an issue, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

BTW, my plan for the regular Mule will also have a version with teeth.

sal

Can't wait for normal production. Thanks for keeping the handle the same as I like making scales for the Mule. It's cool to think a few of us on the forum were able to give feedback directly to the founder and possibly influence a new model. One of the many reasons Spyderco is such an awesome company. Thanks Sal!

[legOFwhat?]

I think Saint Sal dropped a bombshell. Serrated mule?

Thanx Attila,

I'll look into that. Mostly I use leather sheaths. I did try a Boltaron sheath on one of my Mules, which I do not have here. I don't remember seeing an issue, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

BTW, my plan for the regular Mule will also have a version with teeth.

sal

Oooo, I've been asking for Mule TEETH for quite a while!

[Gtscotty]

Ooh a production Mule Team! But what steel?

Hi Woodpuppy,

SPY-27

sal

Kewl. A totally reasonable choice! I’ve been thinking SPY27 would/should begin to make more of a showing in production knives.

Concur, SPY27 is very similar to S35VN, and I mean that in a good way, makes for a strong foundation blade for kit knives hopefully while keeping cost reasonable.