Magna Mule Rodeo!

[troutinCO]

Lets get this rodeo going!
I got my 2 Magnacut Mules in person at the store. I finally got home to take a look after work. Cool! I set one aside to determine what I am really going to do to it; the other got the g10 grips put on that where laying around. I also have a set of the flat micarta scales too.

This morning I decided I better at least use the factory edge before I do my Sharpmaker fun fest to a 30* inclusive edge.

So after a good 40 minutes I had a nice small pile of cardboard to throw away.

Notes on factory edge:
Sharp, duh. It stayed sharp thru the 3 boxes I cut from that start pile, I needed to clean some gunk off half way through that process. By the end it was not cutting paper as cleanly as the start, a little bit of fuzzy on the cut. It still has plenty of life to go, I still have more boxes too. Once the boxes are done I will do what I did with the Z-Max and Z-wear mules and profile this test mule to a 30* edge on the Sharpmaker.

More to rodeo fun to come. Feel free to join in.
I'm going to try to better document my uses with this knife since I didn't do a good one with the first 2 mules I got. I am also going to try to be a little more "scientific" about this one as well since I got 2 of them.

[RustyIron]

I applaud your diligence. A couple days ago I roughed out some scales for my Z-Wear. It's liable to be a couple months until I decide what to do with the MagnaMule.

[RustyIron]

double post.

[Xayaza]

Can't wait to join this thread when my order arrives.
I'm new to the Mule Team and have a couple of questions for those who have other Mules:
1. What angle are you planning to sharpen the MT35?
2. What are your favorite tests for Mules?
3. What were your favorite steels?
4. Are there major differences between the steel in the mules and production knives? (I have an S45VN PM2, SPY27 Manix 2 LW, ZDP-189 Stretch 2 and Dragonfly 2, and a Resilience)

[troutinCO]

Welcome, I think these are going to be fun. I failed to do good documentation with my previous 2 mules, but this one I will document well.
For your questions:
1. I only have a sharpmaker, I have used the 30* inclusive on my Z-max and Z-wear mules. I will do the same with this mule.
2. Any of my normal uses. Anything from kitchen use to camp use. Plus extras as I can find them.
3. I'm finding I like good edge retention, don't mind a steel that takes a while to sharpen. So far Z-max has taken the longest to get correctly sharp. Many nights behind the sharpmaker reprofiling it.... The Sharpmaker isn't supposed to do heavy reprofile work but I proved to myself it can if its all you got.
4. I'm new enough to Spyderco I am not sure. And so far the 3 steels I have in a Mule I do not have in a folder. I have similar steels in a folder knife but not exact matches to name brand etc.

Side note, I will start the reprofile and sharpening process for my new mule soon. That will be documented here.

[Bolster]

Doesn't MagnaCut's toughness imply that it'd be safe to go below 15 dps, provided one is not abusive?

[Xayaza]

Welcome, I think these are going to be fun. I failed to do good documentation with my previous 2 mules, but this one I will document well.
For your questions:
1. I only have a sharpmaker, I have used the 30* inclusive on my Z-max and Z-wear mules. I will do the same with this mule.
2. Any of my normal uses. Anything from kitchen use to camp use. Plus extras as I can find them.
3. I'm finding I like good edge retention, don't mind a steel that takes a while to sharpen. So far Z-max has taken the longest to get correctly sharp. Many nights behind the sharpmaker reprofiling it.... The Sharpmaker isn't supposed to do heavy reprofile work but I proved to myself it can if its all you got.
4. I'm new enough to Spyderco I am not sure. And so far the 3 steels I have in a Mule I do not have in a folder. I have similar steels in a folder knife but not exact matches to name brand etc.

Side note, I will start the reprofile and sharpening process for my new mule soon. That will be documented here.

I will be using my Ken Onion Worksharp w/ Blade Grinder to reprofile/sharpen; I'll be going to 24* inclusive.

I think I will featherstick and carve as part of my testing; I also have sugar cane to test on. Food prep is a major use for me so that'll be tested for sure.

Doesn't MagnaCut's toughness imply that it'd be safe to go below 15 dps, provided one is not abusive?

I've seen some people use 10 dps and possibly lower on youtube, but I don't want to go that low with mine lol (and some even do abusive tests with those angles).

[troutinCO]

If I had a system to do less than 15 dps then I would probably push it.

[Mendozamike89]

I have the spy 27 mule and a para 3 an manix 2 in spy 27 as well and can't tell a difference in the 3 blades

[Xayaza]

If I had a system to do less than 15 dps then I would probably push it.

The Sharpmaker allows for free-hand if you want to try that, but honestly 15 dps isn't bad at all; if I didn't have the Work Sharp, I would use 15 dps too.

I have the spy 27 mule and a para 3 an manix 2 in spy 27 as well and can't tell a difference in the 3 blades

I suppose that makes sense because they've already worked out most of the kinks. I think I want a Kapara in Magnacut if they ever make one.

[Xplorer]

Doesn't MagnaCut's toughness imply that it'd be safe to go below 15 dps, provided one is not abusive?

Toughness is helpful to a degree but it's not the only factor when thinning an edge. Toughness literally means it will roll or deform. So, more toughness on a thin edge does help the edge to resist chipping but it does not necessarily help the edge to remain stable. Hardness actually allows a knife to be pushed farther when the edge is thin by providing strength. Added toughness moves the mode of failure away from chipping and closer to rolling.

Carbide type, size and most importantly distribution are also very important factors for overall edge stability as well.

Whatever the mix of hardness and toughness may be, the further you thin an edge the fewer PSI it can take before it fails regardless.

Geometry has the greatest effect of all factors regarding edge stability. A big part of that equation is the thickness behind the edge (BTE). Reducing that "shoulder" thickness during the grinding of the primary bevel is one way knife makers make knives cut better. But putting a 10DPS edge on a .010" shoulder is going to be much more prone to failure (regardless of what mode of failure is most likely given the specific attributes of the steel) than if you were to put that same 10DPS on a .015" shoulder for example. That said, I don't know the BTE measurement on this Mule, but I'm guessing it's in the .015" to .020" range.

All that said...Mules are for you to play with, experiment with, test the steel, etc... I can't think of a better knife for you to try a 10DPS edge on. The HRC 62+ hardness that you should have in the Magnacut Mule will be pretty strong and one of the really great things about Magnacut is the small carbide size and the exceptionally even distribution. Both attributes contribute to supporting a thin edge. It's not going to be the most ideal steel for running super thin, but it's going to be very good. I suggest you try it. I'll bet that you'll like it and if it suffers some sort of failure at some point...no big deal, you'll sharpen out the damage or you'll bring it to my shop and learn how to re-grind a blade if you can't sharpen it out.

Have fun with it!

[Rp5]

In the spirit of joining in:

Received my Mule today and immediately put it to work.


Moved the scales to the MagnaCut Mule and set to it with the Sharpmaker. Tried to set a 15/20 compound bevel on it using diamonds to set the back and then the other rods on the tip. Not sure how effective I really was (novice sharpener), but it also didn't come dull from the factory, so the end result was reasonably sticky sharp. Collected all the cardboard in my house and dismantled it pretty easily. Not sure I noticed a huge difference between MagnaCut and the PD1 I'd normally use, but was fun to put a new knife through the paces either way. Liking the steel so far.

[sal]

I took mine to 15DPS. I'll take it down to fine (white corner on Sharpmaker). I'll do my initial testing with this edge.

sal

[troutinCO]

I took mine to 15DPS. I'll take it down to fine (white corner on Sharpmaker). I'll do my initial testing with this edge.

sal

I plan to use the 30* side of the Sharpmaker to get mine sharp. It will be good for comparison since I have done it with the 2 other mules.

Of note, I was cutting more cardboard up last night. I had Magnacut and Z-Wear mules handy. Magnacut is still on the factory edge at an unknown DPS and the Z-wear is sticky and shaving sharp with a 15dps edge. The Z-wear edge cut much easier, it did have a fresh edge on it and it was re-profiled. It confirmed to me that I need to go ahead and do this to the Magnacut mule so I can better compare my mule steels though.

[5-by-5]

I got a holder to take my sharp maker down to 10dps. Never done it yet.

[troutinCO]

Started profiling/sharpening this mule on my Sharpmaker. Initial report: It is pretty awesome on the CBN rods. Feels really nice. Not going to need much profile work, yay! Not going to take much work to get it where I want it.
Pics, report and comparisons coming soon.

[Gtscotty]

I've been taking mine down to 13dps on 100 grit Venev stones. Not terrible, but certainly hasn't been trivial, definitely a wear resistant steel. Just need to get it finished up this evening in case I get a chance to take it out on a deer hunt tomorrow.

[Gtscotty]

Finished up, definitely a wear resistant steel, but it takes a mean edge nicely.

[Evil D]

This is my first real cut test, and it didn't really go very well. Not so much because of the steel but because this urethane is super hard in the cold and the plain edge wanted to do more sliding than cutting. I may play around with some low grit edges and see if this kind of material is easier to cut, but in the heat of getting this job done I had to pull out my Autonomy which cut through it like hot butter.

[troutinCO]

I have a bad habit of closing windows making these reports and not saving my work...........
I don't hand sharpen as I dont trust myself, I use a Sharpmaker currently. I have CBN and Diamond rods for it. Sharpie and loupe are the other part of the kit. I plan on getting something that lets me have more adjustability later.

So onto the Mule sharpening.
I put my sharpie on the mule to start and see what my angles were and how much work this was going to be.

I made light passes on the CBN rod, to my surprise it was nearly bang on with the 15DPS side on the Sharpmaker. So I continued to make light passes for a while.

After a couple of shows worth of that I noticed that the bevel is really a little less than 15DPS on the factory edge and that I am really putting a nice micro-like-bevel on the edge. It got sharp really fast, honestly I probably could have put it on the brown rods for 10 minutes and been good to go. But I like going too far typically.
This bad shot through the loupe shows the edge coming along.

Where I stopped last night. After some brown rod treatment.

I used the factory edge up and could not cut paper cleanly or shave arm hair before I went to sharpen it. Over the course of the day yesterday and a bit this morning I spent maybe 1 hour to get to where I can make paper curls, it shaves hair, and is sticky sharp on the skin. It matches my other edges on other knives.
Magnacut on the Sharpmaker CBN rods feels really good. It doesn't feel like it is skipping over things like harder steels like my Z-max mule. It has a nice even scratch that gets put into it. Takes a super fine edge too.

Comparisons to my 2 other Mules on the initial sharpenings:
Z-Max - well this one had one bevel that needed major reprofile. On the Sharpmaker that was a LONG while to get it down. Once I got it down and then worked to the apex and hit that, this thing has stayed wicked sharp. Not hard to get sharp, just takes time on the system I have. Magnacut is much faster and even easier to get the edge I like on it compared to Z-max, obviously. The comparison here will more likely come from corrosion and edge holding in kitchen scenarios, so more to come from that.

Z-Wear - My sample felt a bit harder than my spyderco cru-wear knives. I think it was the factory edge because now it feels much more like the cru-wear I have. It sharpens easily. Takes a great edge. I think Magnacut was a bit easier to deal with and took a finer edge with less care on my part to do so.

I think this stuff is going to be great!