Folding Mule?

[Fireman]

What do you all think about a folding mule?
The basic concept is there as the regular mule but the folder would be possibly a kit that you assemble yourself and inexpensive. Possibly the same blade shape but more accessible for people around the world who have fixed knife issues that could be bought as a lock back too keep it simple and cheap. The majority of Spyderco knife users are folder using patrons so a more realistic real world mule should be a folder amiright?

[RustyIron]

The concept of the Mule is really cool, but for me has limited appeal. Fixed blade utility knives just aren't my cup of tea. I would much rather carry a folder.

If some kind of novel steel was offered in a platform that I found appealing, I'd be down with that. But is it practical to offer it disassembled? Slapping together a pile of parts probably doesn't take that long for someone who does it all day long. The cost savings would probably not be worth the headaches created by customers who can't properly assemble the parts.

P.S.
On another note, I've been listening to water-dropping Chinooks flying overhead. Your brothers will be working through the night.

[TomAiello]

I think the best way to do a 'folding mule' that could be carried and used by the most people would be to run sprints of the UKPK in various steels.

[Fireman]

Labor is a big part of cost. If you could have a kit that you could do yourself then it would keep costs down and not gum up the works at Golden.

[standy99]

Not the first time this has came up. Not going to happen.

Kit knives are a liability that Spyderco doesn’t need. Not everyone is into or up to putting knives together. ( most here are but we are a small % of the knife consuming population. I have guys that pay me to sharpen knives because they don’t know how, don’t want to know how and haven’t got the time but they are knife enthusiasts)

Looking just at the 10 or so steels you can get in a PM2 it’s a evolving mule already.

[yablanowitz]

The Military is the original folding Mule. But as Sal has said, these aren't Legos. Spyderco's lockbacks are cut to tolerances of less than the thickness of a human hair. Adding a lock is going to increase the cost substantially over a fixed blade. Adding something that any schmuck with a screwdiver can assemble with safe results would add a great deal more to the cost.

[ykspydiefan]

Word I have heard on the street says, the Mule Team is a special thing, keep it simple, keep it affordable, don't change it, and please don't mess it up.

As with any other good idea if it has merits on its own and enough support from forum users and others then it will eventually happen. I like kit knives and would like to see Spyderco do a high quality folder kit.

[Fireman]

I know I speak mule heresy. If labor is with all the added costs and management and insurance etcetera is say $100/hour it can greatly reduce the cost by just buying the parts. Yes, not for everyone, that is what a regular assembled pocket knife is for. “Made at home” should be a proud label. Remember, the regular mule is still a “part” albeit the most important one. If you EDC the mule it will be a more realistic test of the steel.
Ultimate Mule

[sal]

Hi Fireman,

This topic has been discussed a number of times, but we always blank out. We recognize that folders would be more convenient for the "tester", but folders have all sorts of their own challenges. The only folder that we could even consider would be a slip joint. Locks are very complicated and dangerous if not assembled correctly. This is especially true of lock-backs and the potential liability issues are too great. Even as a slip joint, one could expect a much higher cost considering the number of parts involved, as opposed to the one piece Mule Team.

sal

[yablanowitz]

I know I speak mule heresy. If labor is with all the added costs and management and insurance etcetera is say $100/hour it can greatly reduce the cost by just buying the parts.

If you are saying that the selling price of a folding knife could be substantially reduced by selling all the parts instead of paying a highly trained and skilled laborer to correctly assemble them into a complete unit, I suppose that is true. The problem there is that for every dollar they save, they'll end up spending five on lawyers fees for the liability suits when customers injure themselves with improperly assembled knives, not to mention the unrecoverable damage to their reputation for "reliable high-performance" caused by those cases.

[Fireman]

I am just happy Spyderco is making mules in the first place. Seems like too much bother to make a folding mule. Thanks for the clarity Sal.

[defenestrate]

If we find a compelling and unique reason why slipjoints or other folders could be a good test platform, I'm likely to be on board. That said, modest sized fixed blades are versatile, bypass the complexities, potential failures and ruinability of folders, can be sold to us for quite a bit less, etc.

Maybe someone will work out a way to modify these into folders if they're that motivated. It should be plausible, though I would have to see some good examples before doing one myself.

[TkoK83Spy]

I like the Mule, but personally would like it to have a smaller handle for easier and more comfortable carry/concealment. Yes, I know the handle can be modified!

[defenestrate]

If we find a compelling and unique reason why slipjoints or other folders could be a good test platform, I'm likely to be on board. That said, modest sized fixed blades are versatile, bypass the complexities, potential failures and ruinability of folders, can be sold to us for quite a bit less, etc.

Maybe someone will work out a way to modify these into folders if they're that motivated. It should be plausible, though I would have to see some good examples before doing one myself.

Anyway, just happy that this is picking up steam and looking forward to trying more.

[sethwm]

Hi Fireman,

This topic has been discussed a number of times, but we always blank out. We recognize that folders would be more convenient for the "tester", but folders have all sorts of their own challenges. The only folder that we could even consider would be a slip joint. Locks are very complicated and dangerous if not assembled correctly. This is especially true of lock-backs and the potential liability issues are too great. Even as a slip joint, one could expect a much higher cost considering the number of parts involved, as opposed to the one piece Mule Team.

sal

Sal,

This is surprising to me. To my uneducated eye, having disassembled liner locks, compression locks, axis locks, and lock backs, lock backs _seem_ to be the simplest of the bunch.

I'm curious if you'd be willing to share what makes lock-backs especially complicated. And what lock type do you think is the simplest/easiest to assemble/"get right"?

Thanks!
Seth

[TomAiello]

If we find a compelling and unique reason why slipjoints or other folders could be a good test platform, I'm likely to be on board.

They would allow a much larger group of people to participate as testers, by letting people EDC the test blades in a much greater number of jurisdictions.

[cody6268]

I'm wondering--how about a friction folder, similar to the Svord. Simply built, a lot less stuff to go wrong as opposed to a slipjoint or locking folder.

[RustyIron]

After giving this some consideration, I've decided that MY "folding Mule" is a Sprint. Sometimes my folding Mule is an exclusive, and sometimes it's even a production knife.

Right now I'm curious about a particular steel which just happened to be used on a folding knive that appeals to me. I bought it and it will be delivered on Monday. I'll be having fun playing with a new knife with new steel, and even after the novelty wears off, I'll still be able to throw it in my pocket and get some use out of it.

The regular Mule, on the other hand, would get used for a while and then set aside for infrequent use. I just don't carry a fixed blade that often. As long as Spyderco keeps making their folding knives with novel steel, I'll be entertained. That's all I can ask for.

[Fireman]

I guess the only way to get a folding mule is to use the first hole behind the finger guard as a pivot hole and custom make it.

[sal]

Hi Fireman,

This topic has been discussed a number of times, but we always blank out. We recognize that folders would be more convenient for the "tester", but folders have all sorts of their own challenges. The only folder that we could even consider would be a slip joint. Locks are very complicated and dangerous if not assembled correctly. This is especially true of lock-backs and the potential liability issues are too great. Even as a slip joint, one could expect a much higher cost considering the number of parts involved, as opposed to the one piece Mule Team.

sal

Sal,

This is surprising to me. To my uneducated eye, having disassembled liner locks, compression locks, axis locks, and lock backs, lock backs _seem_ to be the simplest of the bunch.

I'm curious if you'd be willing to share what makes lock-backs especially complicated. And what lock type do you think is the simplest/easiest to assemble/"get right"?

Thanks!
Seth

Hi Seth,

Taking them apart is a lot different than building them. Lock-backs done properly are very close tolerance and don't have the "self adjustment" of many other locks like Linerlocks or Compression locks or ball bearing locks.

In my opinion, and I've thought hard and long on this, is to make Slip-joint Mule Teams, but it is really is a large undertaking. It's kind of like setting up a custom shop; lots of prep that is different than what we're now doing, and frankly, right now we're peddling as fast as we can just trying to get what we can to you.

sal