Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

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Xplorer
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#21

Post by Xplorer »

standy99 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 11:39 pm
Can I come to your place to finish mine....All those flash toys you have ;)

Thanks for posting.

One question, I seem to have a bit of epoxy on the blade at where the scales end. (Where you use the brass thinjgymajig) Should I just use a razor and not any acetone.
Yes you can come by any time Andy. :)

I do suggest a razor blade. BUT, be aware of the corner of the blade and watch that you don't scratch anything with it. You should be able to press the flat edge of the razor blade against the blade or ricasso and toward the handle and pop the epoxy up in large(ish) pieces. Try not to use the razor directly on the wood as it will scratch and mar too easily.

You can use acetone. The caution I would suggest is that you risk eroding the epoxy at the leading edge of the scales a little. I would also suggest being careful not to let your scales absorb the acetone if they are not stabilized. All said, these are very minor concerns and borderline irrelevant. Realistically, once your epoxy is fully cured you can use acetone to clean up without harming anything. I choose not to only because I'm overly cautious about stuff like that.
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archangel
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#22

Post by archangel »

Xplorer wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 11:31 pm
archangel wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:22 pm
Wow... :eek:

Thank you! For the manual, and for using my proposal to call us Mule Heads! ;)

I wish I had all the tools & equipment to do it, I really do. Gotta stick with Paracord Wraps..... :(
You're welcome! I don't know if a name has been officially designated or not, but Mule Heads is just the one that stuck in my head after reading the nickname thread a few weeks ago :) .

One really nice thing about paracord handles is you can change them much more easily any time you decide you want to fresh new look. Plus it seems like paracord comes in about 1000 colors and patterns so choices are nearly infinite. For someone like me, ordering paracord for lanyards is really dangerous. I get on the paracord website and I want to order like 50 of them :o I always end up buying 3 times as many colors as I actually needed (just in case :) ).

Best regards,
Chad

I know EXACTLY what you mean... :D I now own 5 or 6 different patterns of regular 550 PC plus some Firecord plus some Battlecord plus a few meters of climbing rope - cause you never know... :cool: ;)
Michael
48 Spydies, 44 different models, 43 different steels
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Grail knife, still to be acquired: original Tuff by Ed Schempp Feel free to help me find one at a reasonable price...
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#23

Post by yablanowitz »

I think at last count I had about 2,000 ft of paracord in about 30 colors. (Not counting what's wrapped around Mules).
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#24

Post by TomAiello »

I'm so tempted to take a picture of my para 'cord' supplies. I own a parachute rigging loft--I have a lot of line.
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#25

Post by Bolster »

TomAiello wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 11:15 pm
I built myself a wooden 'box' (really just 4 pieces of wood) that I clamp around the edges of each piece that I'm gluing (lined with parchment paper), and then I put weights on top of the materials being glued. I use tubular webbing filled with lead shot and sewed shut, because I have a bunch of them for sewing (in my real 'day job' work) and I just grabbed those for this task. But I'm sure that almost any weights would work.

I think I can 'see' this in my head, but if you get a chance Tom can we see a photo of this device in use sometime?
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#26

Post by standy99 »

Xplorer wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:04 am
standy99 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 11:39 pm
Can I come to your place to finish mine....All those flash toys you have ;)

Thanks for posting.

One question, I seem to have a bit of epoxy on the blade at where the scales end. (Where you use the brass thinjgymajig) Should I just use a razor and not any acetone.
Yes you can come by any time Andy. :)

I do suggest a razor blade. BUT, be aware of the corner of the blade and watch that you don't scratch anything with it. You should be able to press the flat edge of the razor blade against the blade or ricasso and toward the handle and pop the epoxy up in large(ish) pieces. Try not to use the razor directly on the wood as it will scratch and mar too easily.

You can use acetone. The caution I would suggest is that you risk eroding the epoxy at the leading edge of the scales a little. I would also suggest being careful not to let your scales absorb the acetone if they are not stabilized. All said, these are very minor concerns and borderline irrelevant. Realistically, once your epoxy is fully cured you can use acetone to clean up without harming anything. I choose not to only because I'm overly cautious about stuff like that.
Worked a treat just with a razor blade :cool:
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.
izzoyournizzo
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#27

Post by izzoyournizzo »

Another quality post Chad. Thank you so much for it!

When are putting that final finish on the handle, do you coat it with anything in addition to buffing it.

I think I'm a little confused on how the handle is sealed after sanding and buffing. Or is the act of buffing it auctually sealing the handle.
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#28

Post by Xplorer »

izzoyournizzo wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 11:38 am
Another quality post Chad. Thank you so much for it!

When are putting that final finish on the handle, do you coat it with anything in addition to buffing it.

I think I'm a little confused on how the handle is sealed after sanding and buffing. Or is the act of buffing it actually sealing the handle.
I didn't do anything on that handle that isn't pictured or mentioned in the thread. It's all there for people to replicate if they want :) .

After sanding with such fine sandpaper buffing alone brings out the shine that you see. There's nothing added to the surface, no coatings of any sort. The wood was stabilized, which is like sealing it from the inside in a way. What that means is the oxygen was pulled out of the inside of the grain under high vacuum while sitting in a vat of resin. Once all of the air is pulled from the wood, the wood itself becomes a vacuum when the vac pressure is released. The wood then sucks the resin into all of the area within the grain where there was once air. After curing the resin the entire structure throughout the wood grain is now surrounded and supported by resin. This makes the wood infinitely stronger, much more impact resistant and most importantly chemical and water resistant more like a plastic product than a wood product.

If you sand raw wood up to 2500 grit like this and buff it, it too will shine like that but it won't stay polished looking very long and it won't have the water, chemical and impact resistance that makes a really durable and long lasting knife handle. As a side note, for raw wood I would suggest thoroughly saturating it in boiled linseed oil to protect it rather than any coatings that sit on the surface.

Best regards,
CK
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Father of 2, nature explorer, custom knife maker.
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izzoyournizzo
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#29

Post by izzoyournizzo »

Wow, I had no idea that the scales were actually stabilized like that before. I was planning on trying to make my first mule scales from some wood off a tree in my yard. Thanks for the advice of boiling it in linseed oil. Would you do this after shaping the scales or before?
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Xplorer
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#30

Post by Xplorer »

izzoyournizzo wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 12:28 pm
Wow, I had no idea that the scales were actually stabilized like that before. I was planning on trying to make my first mule scales from some wood off a tree in my yard. Thanks for the advice of boiling it in linseed oil. Would you do this after shaping the scales or before?
You treat them with boiled linseed oil after they are completely finished. To be clear, you don't boil them in linseed oil. Boiled linseed oil is the product you use. You actually rub the oil in once per day for about a week, until the wood stops absorbing the oil. Steel wool prior to each re-coat if the grain has lifted. This way the oil will not allow anywhere for water and other oils to be absorbed anymore and the wood will be far more stain, water and oil resistant. You re-coat as needed after that.
An example of a good oiling plan would be..
once per day for 5 days
once per week for the next 5 weeks
once per month for the next 5 months
once or twice per year from then on
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izzoyournizzo
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#31

Post by izzoyournizzo »

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Now I need to buy a buffing wheel for my bench grinder and some linseed oil. I hope that will do the trick.
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#32

Post by Bolster »

Xplorer wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 12:13 pm
The wood was stabilized, which is like sealing it from the inside in a way. What that means is the oxygen was pulled out of the inside of the grain under high vacuum while sitting in a vat of resin. Once all of the air is pulled from the wood, the wood itself becomes a vacuum when the vac pressure is released.

This has me wondering. I have a FoodSaver vacuum sealer. I wonder what would happen if I put wood scales in a FoodSaver bag of linseed oil and sealed them in for a couple of days.
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#33

Post by Xplorer »

Bolster wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 11:27 pm
Xplorer wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 12:13 pm
The wood was stabilized, which is like sealing it from the inside in a way. What that means is the oxygen was pulled out of the inside of the grain under high vacuum while sitting in a vat of resin. Once all of the air is pulled from the wood, the wood itself becomes a vacuum when the vac pressure is released.

This has me wondering. I have a FoodSaver vacuum sealer. I wonder what would happen if I put wood scales in a FoodSaver bag of linseed oil and sealed them in for a couple of days.
Keep in mind that the vacuum won't press any oil into the wood. It will possibly pull a little air out of the wood if anything. It's when you release the vacuum that the wood might pull some oil in if it was fully submersed in oil when the vacuum pressure is released.
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#34

Post by TomAiello »

I've never tried using a food saver that way. I have one, though, and it might be worth some experimentation. If you do it, Bolster, try to weigh the wood before and after to see how much of the linseed oil penetrates it.

My guess is that you'll just be accelerating the absorption a little bit, over hand applying the oil on a recurring basis. The difference between the vacuum pump I use for stabilizing (it's intended for HVAC service) and the food saver is pretty substantial.

Do you have the food saver canisters? Those might work better than a bag for this.


Xplorer, have you ever tried using pressure after vacuuming? I was reading about that the other day (putting the pieces into a pressure pot immediately after vacuum to 'push' more resin into the wood), but I have no idea if it's actually effective in increasing resin uptake. I don't own a pressure pot, but I was thinking of picking one up to try making some hybrid scales (and, if I'm being honest, because my kids want to make custom dice for dungeons and dragons).
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#35

Post by Xplorer »

TomAiello wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 8:13 am
...The difference between the vacuum pump I use for stabilizing (it's intended for HVAC service) and the food saver is pretty substantial.
No doubt. I was going to explain the same thing here, and how very important it is to get as close to full atmospheric vacuum as possible in order to get good resin penetration among other key details. But then I figured..I haven't actually done the food saver thing and can't definitively say it won't help so Kel might as well give it a try if he wants to. After all, he won't fail no matter what. He will either succeed or he'll learn something new and maybe even teach us what he learned. :)

TomAiello wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 8:13 am
Xplorer, have you ever tried using pressure after vacuuming? I was reading about that the other day (putting the pieces into a pressure pot immediately after vacuum to 'push' more resin into the wood), but I have no idea if it's actually effective in increasing resin uptake. I don't own a pressure pot, but I was thinking of picking one up to try making some hybrid scales (and, if I'm being honest, because my kids want to make custom dice for dungeons and dragons).
No I have not. If you mean taking them out of the resin and placing them (wet) in the pressure pot, I have serious doubts that pressure afterward will make any noticeable difference without the blank remaining submerged in the resin.

If you mean placing them in the pressure pot and pouring the resin in with them so that they are fully submerged, I have a strong feeling it would help. The one thing I'm unsure of is the pressure required to make more progress than the vacuum already made. High vacuum is incredibly powerful and doesn't convert to a simple analogous opposite measurement when comparing it to pressure so I'm unsure (as I write this) how high the pressure would have to be.

I do know this however...nearly everyone who sells stabilized wood blanks uses vacuum for stabilizing. The one exception that I am aware of (there may be others I'm unaware of) is the guys at K&G Finishing Supplies (Knife and Gun) kandgstabilizing.com. They use high pressure instead of vacuum from what I understand. The significant thing about this is that I've bought a bunch of stabilized woods from multiple sources, I've spent hundreds of dollars experimenting and learning to get the best possible results out of doing it myself, my dad (life-long woodworker) who makes very high-end custom wood furniture has worked to perfect the process on his end, and still the hardest, heaviest, most dense piece of stabilized wood I've ever held was the stuff K&G stabilized. It's feels like it's got 50% more resin in it than anything else I've ever seen. This leads me to believe there's something to the pressure they use that is superior. However, I do not know how much pressure or for how long etc.. they don't share the recipe :( .

Now that you've brought this up, I think I might just get a pressure pot and try putting half the blanks and all of the resin in it after the soak (post vacuum) and then compare the results of the pressurized blanks and non-pressurized blanks when the process is complete. :D I'll either succeed or learn :D .
Last edited by Xplorer on Sun May 23, 2021 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#36

Post by TomAiello »

I've seen one of the suppliers (one in Australia, I think?) that advertises a 'both vacuum and pressure' process. I was wondering if having a pressure pot big enough to accept the full vacuum chamber inside would work--so I could keep the work piece fully submerged and just transfer the entire 'chamber+resin+submerged work' into the pressure pot.

There is a document discussing this technique here: http://azwoodturners.org/pages/tips/Vac ... lizing.pdf
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#37

Post by Xplorer »

After reading what the article says, I would say it has potential to increase the amount of resin absorbed although the initial vacuum stage is still the most critical element in the process. The one thing that I see in the process described that I would want to be absolutely sure to avoid is in moving the blanks from the vacuum chamber to the pressure pot I would not want the blanks to have ANY exposure to air during the transfer. Any open space in the wood at that point would still contain vacuum and any air it sucks in would take space away from resin that could have been pushed in.

I won't be working on this immediately, but you can bet I'll have a pressure system built by the end of Summer :) .
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#38

Post by wisby »

Wow! Thanks for sharing your experience here and helping me out with a few years of presents to add to the list of tools for my wife to buy me :)
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#39

Post by Xplorer »

wisby wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 5:06 pm
Wow! Thanks for sharing your experience here and helping me out with a few years of presents to add to the list of tools for my wife to buy me :)
:D LOL :D Glad I could help. ;)
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Re: Making a Mule Handle (step-by-step)

#40

Post by Holland »

Incredible thread, thanks for taking the time to put this together and add all the photos! Very informative
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