Having a shot at some timber scales

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standy99
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#21

Post by standy99 »

WilliamMunny wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:32 am

How thick did you make your scales? 1/4”, 3/8”, 1/2”?
I aim for 20mm with tang both scales. So 8.5mm each scale and 3mm tang. Just measured and it’s spot on 20mm

Out of clamps (might see the colour a bit more with some epoxy on the scales)

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Will start sanding over the next few days.
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FullScaler
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#22

Post by FullScaler »

WilliamMunny wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:03 am

Did you have the wood stabilized first? I got the impression that it was fairly important to do.

I did not stabilize either of these. I know there is great debate over the subject but I prefer certain wood unstabilized. I find the natural patina and polish on natural wooden to look better, especially over time as it ages.

Stabilizing is required for softer woods wood with voids or high porosity, and wood that is more prone to warping, twisting, cracking, and swelling. Both of these woods are very hard and will receive good surface treatments to help keep their moisture levels consistent.

I may need to be a little more carefull with keeping them out of prolonged moisture than I would with a stabilized wood but with these particular scales I am sure they will both serve the purpose well and last a good long time in their natural unstabilized form.
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#23

Post by FullScaler »

TomAiello wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 6:32 am
Nice maple, full scaler. That's some good looking wood. :)
Thanks Tom. I will be sure to post some pics when it is all done.
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#24

Post by Bolster »

TomAiello wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:29 am
Here's a handle I put on a Brisa blank that way...

Lookin' good! Also thanks for the lead. Have been having difficulty finding quality non-China blanks...
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#25

Post by Bolster »

FullScaler wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:55 am
I did not stabilize either of these. I know there is great debate over the subject but I prefer certain wood unstabilized. I find the natural patina and polish on natural wooden to look better, especially over time as it ages.

Stabilizing is required for softer woods wood with voids or high porosity, and wood that is more prone to warping, twisting, cracking, and swelling. Both of these woods are very hard and will receive good surface treatments to help keep their moisture levels consistent.

I may need to be a little more carefull with keeping them out of prolonged moisture than I would with a stabilized wood but with these particular scales I am sure they will both serve the purpose well and last a good long time in their natural unstabilized form.

I have loads of "classic" slipjoints with unstabilized wood handles that have made it down through the ages in good shape. I also have one stabilized wood paring knife (a Warther S35VN) whose grain raised badly when an unnamed family member left damp, and I had to sand it back into shape.

Would like to see a discussion of simple finishes on wood that seal it (varnish, shellac, urethane, oil...)
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WilliamMunny
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#26

Post by WilliamMunny »

FullScaler wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:55 am
WilliamMunny wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:03 am

Did you have the wood stabilized first? I got the impression that it was fairly important to do.

I did not stabilize either of these. I know there is great debate over the subject but I prefer certain wood unstabilized. I find the natural patina and polish on natural wooden to look better, especially over time as it ages.

Stabilizing is required for softer woods wood with voids or high porosity, and wood that is more prone to warping, twisting, cracking, and swelling. Both of these woods are very hard and will receive good surface treatments to help keep their moisture levels consistent.

I may need to be a little more carefull with keeping them out of prolonged moisture than I would with a stabilized wood but with these particular scales I am sure they will both serve the purpose well and last a good long time in their natural unstabilized form.
I am planing to use some cherry wood I have for scales. Would your recommend stabilizing it or would it be hard enough?
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#27

Post by TomAiello »

Bolster wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:49 pm
TomAiello wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:29 am
Here's a handle I put on a Brisa blank that way...

Lookin' good! Also thanks for the lead. Have been having difficulty finding quality non-China blanks...
I've done a lot of practice handles on the Brisa blanks, and then gifted them to various friends and family. I've been pretty happy with them, and the 12c27 (AEB-L) is plenty good for that kind of thing. I started doing them to practice for my mules, because I wanted to get better before I tried permanently attaching a handle onto a not-easily-replaceable mule. You can get them from Lamnia or direct from Brisa, and the shipping speed and customer service from either of those sources is exceptional.
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#28

Post by TomAiello »

WilliamMunny wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 7:13 pm
I am planing to use some cherry wood I have for scales. Would your recommend stabilizing it or would it be hard enough?
Personally, I stabilize cherry. But I also stabilize maple. I have been diving down the stabilizing/dying rabbit hole, and since I have the equipment, I tend to stabilize anything that _might_ benefit. The only things I don't stabilize at this point are the really dense, oily woods (ebony, Blackwood, ironwood, etc).

Anyway, for me, cherry=stabilized.
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Xplorer
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#29

Post by Xplorer »

Stabilizing provides a big benefit for almost every wood species. But, that's a subjective statement in a way. For some people a piece of raw oak lasting 10 years on a handle is more than good enough. For others it's not. So, the question of stabilize or not to stabilize first begins with the person's view of what is good enough. Personally, I prefer to stabilize all wood species with only a very small handful of exceptions.

When it comes to Cherry it depends on which Cherry. American Cherry is relatively soft and should be stabilized if one is so inclined. African Cherry is medium-hard and should probably be stabilized as well. Brazilian Cherry is very hard and is the best choice of Cherry woods for using without stabilizing.
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standy99
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#30

Post by standy99 »

Probably 80% of wood needs to be stabilised in my book.

That leaves plenty that don’t, but as mentioned above how long a softer wood will last un-stabilised. Believe it or not the constant use and heat of the hand dries out wood rather quick.

I have a box of old wooden handled butchers knives and choppers all with split and cracked handles

Lucky for me there is a lot of Australian hardwoods that don’t require it. Ringed Gidgee being a great one
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#31

Post by TomAiello »

Bolster wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:52 pm
Would like to see a discussion of simple finishes on wood that seal it (varnish, shellac, urethane, oil...)
You're making me want to experiment more with that, now. :)

What finishes have you (or anyone else) used on knife handles?

I've used _a lot_ of spar varnish (my go-to is Minwax Helmsman) on outdoor furniture (attached picture of the backyard picnic table I built out of the scrap wood when we rebuilt our deck 8 years ago, which I am refinishing for the third time right now), but I haven't tried it on a knife handle. Maybe I need to do that.

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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#32

Post by Xplorer »

TomAiello wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 8:54 am

What finishes have you (or anyone else) used on knife handles?
While I might consider an actual hard finish (like Deft lacquer or similar) if I was finishing a removable wood handle that was completely shaped and sanded prior to attaching it to the knife, I haven't had that circumstance arise. The only time I've worked with a wood handle that was not stabilized it was a permanently attached handle that I shaped after attaching it. Once it's in place I don't like the idea of applying a coating that will sit on the surface because I don't want to lacquer over the tang and I don't want to deal with lacquering up to the edges of the handle next to the tang either. But that's just my personal choice.

I chose to treat the wood like one would treat a high quality walnut rifle stock. I coated it in boiled linseed oil each morning for 5-7 days in a row (can't remember now exactly how many days it took to reach saturation). I would lightly steel wool the surface (with 00 steel wool) and wipe it down with cheesecloth just prior to each new application. After about a week, it was had absorbed lots of oil and no longer soaked up the new applications of oil. One it was fully saturated, I finished it with Howard Citrus Shield wax for a little extra protection and a nice orange smell.
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This was the handle I treated with boiled linseed oil. It's also one of the few wood species I don't worry about stabilizing as well. It's Lignum vitae which is a very hard and very dense wood.
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#33

Post by Xplorer »

Another serious suggestion I would offer anyone wanting to treat some raw wood is coconut oil. I use coconut oil on all of my cutting boards and it is a really great oil sealer. It soaks in just like linseed oil, it won't go rancid like olive oil, it's "food safe", and it has a very mild and pleasant smell. You can coat a wood handle daily with coconut oil and after a few days you'll know you're done when you see that it just won't absorb anymore. Then, re-coat as needed every few months.
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#34

Post by Bolster »

Based on looks alone, my absolute favorite wood finish is shellac, for the deep subtle finish it gives, often with a bit of orange or yellow cast. Sadly, it doesn't resist water well, so is out of the running as a durable handle finish.

I think (? not an authority here) that what we used to consider varnish decades ago has been superceded by oil-urethane finishes like Tom's Helmsman's Spar Urethane, which are now called "varnish." Can someone check my thinking please, not sure. I believe the marine varnishes are differentiated by being somewhat flexible but I don't think they're as hard, either. I used a varnish called "rock hard" at one point at it really was just that.

Drying oil finishes (tung, linseed...) have a lovely natural look and make the wood "translucent" looking, but aren't as durable as urethane. Watco "Danish" oil is a mix of oil and urethane varnish and is quite durable, so some woodworkers consider it the best of both worlds. Somewhere I learned not to put oil finishes on rosewood or cocobolo or tulipwood or cedar because oils (incuding Danish oil) won't cure on them.

I don't know much about wax finishes. Can't imagine they're very durable but what do I know.

Take all above ^ with a grain of salt. Finishes have confused me my entire life.
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#35

Post by Bemo »

If you look up Maloof finishes, it's a pretty famous variation of 30/30/30 - 30% BLO, 30% polyurethane, 30% mineral spirits. It makes a good "wiping varnish" that you can build up layers. Wood workers and some luthiers have been using this for decades. Also easily repairable. Recently there's been a plethora of what's called hard wax oils that are very popular in Europe right now. Seems to be a cross between a carnuba wax and an oil like polymerized BLO (think Tru-oil). Odie's Oil is the most famous one of the U.S. made products. The hardwax finishes have been used on hardwood floors so there must be some durability to it.
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standy99
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#36

Post by standy99 »

So had a bit of time this afternoon with only a Dremel and a 60mm flap wheel sander attached to a cordless drill

Rough sand before I start shaping.

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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#37

Post by Xplorer »

Your progress looks great! :) It's getting close!! :D :D
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#38

Post by TomAiello »

Xplorer, what is the inlay in the Lignum Vitae scales?

Standy, I can't wait to see the finished product.

One more week of long work days..then I'll have a little time to get back to knife projects. You guys are making me want to do some scales. :)
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#39

Post by Xplorer »

TomAiello wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 10:14 am
Xplorer, what is the inlay in the Lignum Vitae scales?..
The inlay was natural canvas micarta, orange G10 and black G10. First I made a sandwich of black/orange/micarta/orange/black. I layered them, cut and staggered them, then cut the staggered piece and flipped it on itself, trimmed it, added G10 sides, cut it into the handle, split it down the center, and finally added G10 liners. Rounding the scales made the inlay appear to have a curve in it as well. :) Here's a few of the steps...
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:)
TomAiello wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 10:14 am
...You guys are making me want to do some scales. :)
Glad to hear it! :D :spyder:
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standy99
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Re: Having a shot at some timber scales

#40

Post by standy99 »

Been working lately too much but got a bit of time this afternoon.

Filed and sanded to 60 grit so a lot to go. Sanded to hand fit so one side looks a bit different.

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Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.
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