Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

A place to share your experience with our Mule Team knives.

What steel you'd like to see/test on one of the upcoming Mule Team knives

M398
8
8%
CPM S125V
7
7%
REX121
22
21%
Vanax SuperClean
57
55%
Your own variant (specify in comments)
9
9%
 
Total votes: 103

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Bolster
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#61

Post by Bolster »

Fireman wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:52 pm
Dendritic cobalt would be rad. I have a knife already in it by Boye but I would buy a mule version. Cast mule would be a first but not the first cast knife for Spyderco.

Tell me about dendritic cobalt. I don't understand it.
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Fireman
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#62

Post by Fireman »

:winking-tongue Mule Team Army 001
MNOSD 008 :usflag
Image Stable Mules; Z-Max, Z-Wear, Magna Cut, SRS13, Rex 76, Rex T15.
TomAiello
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#63

Post by TomAiello »

Isn't the idea of the dendritic cobalt pretty similar to the cast 440c in the Serrata?
Stuart Ackerman wrote:As-poured 440C cast steel, was discovered by David Boye to have toothy edges...
When you hot or cold roll it, as per normal manufacturing methods, it does remove the toothy-ness...BUT it did make it tougher overall...

Therefore a Serrata wil not lever as well, but there are tools built for that purpose.. ( crowbars etc )
Cliff Stamp has a Serrata for testing, and in time he will be able to compare it in his carpet and cardboard cutting exercises...
He might see this thread and pass comment?

I tried to "converse" with Mr Boye when I started my research, but I never managed to make contact via email...
I still regard him as THE pioneer in 440C cast steel...yes I know that steel makers were experimenting long before he did, but I have to give credit to him...
From here: viewtopic.php?t=68120

FWIW, I think the Serrata is one of the most underrated Spyderco knives of all time. I love mine.
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Stuart Ackerman
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#64

Post by Stuart Ackerman »

Thanks Tom, for the kind words.

Yupo, dendritic formation is the same for cobalt and steel.
The actual structure might not be exactly the same, but the song remains the same... :)

A Mule would be costly in investment cast 440C ( or other steel, or even cobalt)

I have sold near-finished Serrata blanks, but they cost a tad more than a Mule.
Some folk like to do it their way, and I have seen some really great examples of a Serrata completed by others...
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Bolster
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#65

Post by Bolster »

Fireman wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:26 pm
https://www.boyeknives.com/pages/new-dendritic-cobalt

this is quite informative
Thanx. Have read--still confused. So is "dendritic cobalt" a non-iron (thus non-steel) alloy? And they cast it instead of forge it, apparently. Is there truly no iron in it (rust free)? The "wearing away of the matrix to expose new carbides" sounds like any other carbide-rich steel. What kinds of carbides I wonder? Guessing not iron carbides, and it sounds like not chromium carbides either.

I see some old Cliff Stamp posts where he says a cast cobalt alloy is "significantly lower fracture toughness" and "a lot softer/weaker than the steels" with a coarse grain structure. Those comments don't really much sell me in D.C.

Anybody know the composition of Boye's D.C.?
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Fireman
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#66

Post by Fireman »

I am not sure if his magic mix but i love the craftsmanship of his work and how thin behind the edge his knives are. I love my custom hunter from him. Buy his knives now. He is really old and not many more will be made I fear.
:winking-tongue Mule Team Army 001
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David R
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#67

Post by David R »

Stuart Ackerman wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:55 pm
Thanks Tom, for the kind words.

Yupo, dendritic formation is the same for cobalt and steel.
The actual structure might not be exactly the same, but the song remains the same... :)

A Mule would be costly in investment cast 440C ( or other steel, or even cobalt)

I have sold near-finished Serrata blanks, but they cost a tad more than a Mule.
Some folk like to do it their way, and I have seen some really great examples of a Serrata completed by others...
Glad to see Stuart here.

Agree on the Serrata being under rated. People see 440C and aren't interested. The cast 440C is not the same as rolled 440C. Sharpens differently, cuts differently, and holds an edge differently. And the shape of the Serrata blade is useful for most of my cutting tasks.

I don't think we'll see a cast 440C Mule for 3 reasons: Sal mentioned somewhere that it was very difficult to get right and that he would not be doing it again. The low popularity of the Serrata makes me think the Mule would also not be popular. The Seratta stock is very thick, I assume to resist breaking. If they made a Mule in the standard thickness with cast 440C it may be too brittle. Or if they made it thicker it would not be like the other Mules.

MagnaCut and Rex 121 are at the top of my preference list. I'd add cast 440C as well if I thought there was a chance. I used my Spyderco Serrata and my custom from Stuart all the time. They are my go-to when I reach for a fixed blade. (My Junction gets used too, and I like PSF27, but the I don't like the handle as much for hard cutting or a lot of cutting. Great blade, however.)
David R
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#68

Post by David R »

Rp5 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:00 pm
Toughness and Edge Retention are inversely related to hardness...
All things being equal, you will see less toughness and more edge retention with more hardness.
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Josh Crutchley
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#69

Post by Josh Crutchley »

Bolster wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:51 pm
Fireman wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:26 pm
https://www.boyeknives.com/pages/new-dendritic-cobalt

this is quite informative
Thanx. Have read--still confused. So is "dendritic cobalt" a non-iron (thus non-steel) alloy? And they cast it instead of forge it, apparently. Is there truly no iron in it (rust free)? The "wearing away of the matrix to expose new carbides" sounds like any other carbide-rich steel. What kinds of carbides I wonder? Guessing not iron carbides, and it sounds like not chromium carbides either.

I see some old Cliff Stamp posts where he says a cast cobalt alloy is "significantly lower fracture toughness" and "a lot softer/weaker than the steels" with a coarse grain structure. Those comments don't really much sell me in D.C.

Anybody know the composition of Boye's D.C.?
Cliff claimed Boye used Stellite 6 a cobalt chromium alloy. Talonite is also very similar, they all have large chromium carbides but low bulk hardness(43-48HRC) compared to knife steels.

http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/review ... _misc.html
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#70

Post by Rp5 »

David R wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:38 pm
Rp5 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:00 pm
Toughness and Edge Retention are inversely related to hardness...
All things being equal, you will see less toughness and more edge retention with more hardness.
I guess the way I said it was confusing. Toughness and Edge Retention have an inverse relationship to each other as hardness changes. My point was that you can't give a finite number/rating to a toughness or edge retention measurement since there is a variable range of hardness.
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Bolster
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#71

Post by Bolster »

Joshcrutchley1 wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:14 pm

Cliff claimed Boye used Stellite 6 a cobalt chromium alloy. Talonite is also very similar, they all have large chromium carbides but low bulk hardness(43-48HRC) compared to knife steels.

http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/review ... _misc.html

Aha, thanks for that. Good sleuthing, JC.

A good friend has asked me to sharpen his Boye cast cobalt blade, and it's an odd experience so far.
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AlexRus
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#72

Post by AlexRus »

I decided I want Vanax SuperClean one :respect
But M398 and S125V won't be rejected by me either :')
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#73

Post by AlexRus »

New Knife Steel Ratings by Knife Steel Nerds

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/ ... esistance/
Gham
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#74

Post by Gham »

Hoping the Magnacut is next but also would like to see Vanadis 8 and CPM 9V!
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AlexRus
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#75

Post by AlexRus »

Gham wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:22 pm
Hoping the Magnacut is next but also would like to see Vanadis 8 and CPM 9V!
Sounds good)
David R
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#76

Post by David R »

Rp5 wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:42 pm
David R wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:38 pm
Rp5 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:00 pm
Toughness and Edge Retention are inversely related to hardness...
All things being equal, you will see less toughness and more edge retention with more hardness.
I guess the way I said it was confusing. Toughness and Edge Retention have an inverse relationship to each other as hardness changes. My point was that you can't give a finite number/rating to a toughness or edge retention measurement since there is a variable range of hardness.
Got it. And hardness isn't all the same. A given steel at a given hardness won't necessarily behave the same. It's about the process/procedure, not just the number. At least this is what I've gleaned from reading Larrin and listening to Shawn. At the same hardness number a given steel could have more or less toughness and edge retention. For this reason (and others), I consider hardness numbers to not be very useful.
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sal
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#77

Post by sal »

Hi Gham,

Welcome to our forum.

sal
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AlexRus
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#78

Post by AlexRus »

David R wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:34 pm
Rp5 wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:42 pm
David R wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:38 pm
Rp5 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:00 pm
Toughness and Edge Retention are inversely related to hardness...
All things being equal, you will see less toughness and more edge retention with more hardness.
I guess the way I said it was confusing. Toughness and Edge Retention have an inverse relationship to each other as hardness changes. My point was that you can't give a finite number/rating to a toughness or edge retention measurement since there is a variable range of hardness.
Got it. And hardness isn't all the same. A given steel at a given hardness won't necessarily behave the same. It's about the process/procedure, not just the number. At least this is what I've gleaned from reading Larrin and listening to Shawn. At the same hardness number a given steel could have more or less toughness and edge retention. For this reason (and others), I consider hardness numbers to not be very useful.
Agreed. It's mostly not about hardness numbers only, it's mostly about how that gives hardness was acquired. That will determine the properties of the steel much more than the mere hardness numbers themselves
:respect
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Paraguy
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#79

Post by Paraguy »

I'd like to see another run of Cruwear, CPM 3v and Elmax
"Some call me...Tim?"
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Paraguy
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Re: Steel Poll - What new steel would you like to try/test on a Spyderco Mule Team knife

#80

Post by Paraguy »

Delt 3v perhaps???
"Some call me...Tim?"
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