Mule Team knives steel hardness testing results

A place to share your experience with our Mule Team knives.
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Mule Team knives steel hardness testing results

#1

Post by AlexRus »

Hi y'all!
I've got a question. Spyderco Mule Team knives are sample knives used for different steel performance testing in the same blade geometry, and as we all know that even the same steels at different hardness show a bit different properties in performance. Anyone tested the hardness of steel on their Mules? Please share your date if you did. If we get enough date we could even make a listing of Mule Team knives steels hardness.
Thank you all in advance.
Last edited by AlexRus on Mon May 03, 2021 11:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TomAiello
Member
Posts: 6652
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness

#2

Post by TomAiello »

I think that we should create a thread with Mule hardness tests, and it should get a sticky in this forum. :)
User avatar
Bolster
Member
Posts: 5557
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:27 pm
Location: CalyFRNia

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness

#3

Post by Bolster »

TomAiello wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:32 am
I think that we should create a thread with Mule hardness tests, and it should get a sticky in this forum. :)

Ditto. Wish I could contribute; don't have a hardness tester.
Pokey
Member
Posts: 1208
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 1:11 pm
Location: Thornton, Colorado

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness

#4

Post by Pokey »

Here's an extensive list in a post that member elmeringalo has tested:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=88602&p=1495061&hi ... C#p1495005

Re: Z-Max mule!
post by elmeringalo » Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 pm

I’ve measured all my Mules and this is the results:
MT02P CPM-M4 62HRC
MT03P CPM-S90V 60HRC
MT04P ZDP-189* 65HRC
MT05P 9Cr18Mo* 59HRC
MT06P CPM-S35VN 58HRC
MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC
MT08P Aogami Super Blue 63,5HRC
MT09P Cobalt Special SUS420J2* 56HRC
MT10P CTS-BD1* 57,5HRC
MT11P M390 60HRC
MT12P CruWear * 59,5HRC
MT12P CruWear (2)* 62HRC
MT13P Elmax 60HRC
MT15P CTS-B75P 63HRC
MT16P CTS-XHP* 60HRC
MT17P K390 64HRC
MT18P CPM-S110V 69HRC
MT19P PSF27* 61HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P* 60,5HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P(2)* 61HRC
MT21P CPM4V* 64HRC
MT21P CPM4V(2) 65HRC
MT22P RWL34* 59HRC
MT22P RWL34(2) 61HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV 60HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV(2) 61HRC
MT24P Maxamet 69HRC
MT25P L200N* 57HRC
MT25P L200N(2) 58HRC
MT26P PMA11* 63HRC
MT26P PMA11(2) 64HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1 63,5 HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1(2) 63HRC
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness

#5

Post by AlexRus »

TomAiello wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:32 am
I think that we should create a thread with Mule hardness tests, and it should get a sticky in this forum. :)
Good idea! Renamed the thread to Mule Team knives steel hardness testing :)
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness

#6

Post by AlexRus »

Pokey wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:38 am
Here's an extensive list in a post that member elmeringalo has tested:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=88602&p=1495061&hi ... C#p1495005

Re: Z-Max mule!
post by elmeringalo » Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 pm

I’ve measured all my Mules and this is the results:
MT02P CPM-M4 62HRC
MT03P CPM-S90V 60HRC
MT04P ZDP-189* 65HRC
MT05P 9Cr18Mo* 59HRC
MT06P CPM-S35VN 58HRC
MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC
MT08P Aogami Super Blue 63,5HRC
MT09P Cobalt Special SUS420J2* 56HRC
MT10P CTS-BD1* 57,5HRC
MT11P M390 60HRC
MT12P CruWear * 59,5HRC
MT12P CruWear (2)* 62HRC
MT13P Elmax 60HRC
MT15P CTS-B75P 63HRC
MT16P CTS-XHP* 60HRC
MT17P K390 64HRC
MT18P CPM-S110V 69HRC
MT19P PSF27* 61HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P* 60,5HRC
MT20P CTS-B70P(2)* 61HRC
MT21P CPM4V* 64HRC
MT21P CPM4V(2) 65HRC
MT22P RWL34* 59HRC
MT22P RWL34(2) 61HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV 60HRC
MT23P CPM 20 CV(2) 61HRC
MT24P Maxamet 69HRC
MT25P L200N* 57HRC
MT25P L200N(2) 58HRC
MT26P PMA11* 63HRC
MT26P PMA11(2) 64HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1 63,5 HRC
MT27P Micro-Melt PD1(2) 63HRC
Wow! Awesome! Thank you Pokey!

P.S. But CPM-S110V 69HRC? Might be a mistake? Never seen, read or heard of S110V is capable of 69HRC. It's not Maxamet or REX121. CPM S110V would just fall apart from cutting an apple at 69HRC. IMHO.
TomAiello
Member
Posts: 6652
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#7

Post by TomAiello »

The best way to check that is to test another mule and see what happens. I have an s110v mule that we could test, but no ability to test it.
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#8

Post by AlexRus »

TomAiello wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:56 am
The best way to check that is to test another mule and see what happens. I have an s110v mule that we could test, but no ability to test it.
Agreed. But I'm still sure that 66-67HRC is the maximum S110V could be heat treated. And it would become EXTREMELY brittle at that 66-67HRC, not usable at all as a knife. IMHO again :)
TomAiello wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:56 am
I have an s110v mule that we could test, but no ability to test it.
Unfortunately I got no access to hardness testing machines either :(

P. S. I found Mule Team on Spydiewiki. It shows Spyderco Mule S110V at 60/61 HRC
http://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php?title=MT_Mule_Team

But it has no data for Mule SPY27 and Mule S45VN yet

So we need SPY27 and S45VN Mules to be hardness tested :)
Last edited by AlexRus on Sun May 02, 2021 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
TomAiello
Member
Posts: 6652
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#9

Post by TomAiello »

It could easily be a typo when he typed up his list to upload. Or a weird test result. Or maybe Spyderco really does have amazing s110v heat treat. My experience with Spyderco's s110v is that it holds an edge for a _long_ time but is chippy in hard use (I've chipped my s110v Manix and never chipped my Maxamet Manix, which does not seem to accord with the general experience of others on this forum or the internet generally).

Unfortunately, I don't have a Maxamet mule to test, but I have heard (also third hand on the internet) that the Maxamet mule was run harder than the production blades. I'm skeptical of that though, because my EDC Maxamet Manix holds it's working edge more or less forever.
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#10

Post by AlexRus »

TomAiello wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:24 am
It could easily be a typo when he typed up his list to upload. Or a weird test result. Or maybe Spyderco really does have amazing s110v heat treat. My experience with Spyderco's s110v is that it holds an edge for a _long_ time but is chippy in hard use (I've chipped my s110v Manix and never chipped my Maxamet Manix, which does not seem to accord with the general experience of others on this forum or the internet generally).

Unfortunately, I don't have a Maxamet mule to test, but I have heard (also third hand on the internet) that the Maxamet mule was run harder than the production blades. I'm skeptical of that though, because my EDC Maxamet Manix holds it's working edge more or less forever.
Maxamet and REX121 are the beasts :cool:
David R
Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:11 pm

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#11

Post by David R »

There are a few collections of hardness tests out there. One problem seems to be that most people doing the tests don't want to manage the data. Another issue is that it's hard to know when tests are done correctly or done at all. How can we know people aren't fabricating results?

I've had ~20 mules tested and can post the results. However, I'd prefer to add them to a shared spreadsheet where each test needs to have a the corresponding test info shared (who tested, when, links to any video or other evidence of the test).
Last edited by David R on Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TomAiello
Member
Posts: 6652
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#12

Post by TomAiello »

Does anyone know how to build a shared spreadsheet that people can add data to?
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#13

Post by AlexRus »

TomAiello wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 12:10 pm
Does anyone know how to build a shared spreadsheet that people can add data to?
There is one on Spydiewiki, but we can't add to it or edit it http://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php?title=MT_Mule_Team
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#14

Post by AlexRus »

David R wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 11:52 am
There are a few collections of hardness tests out there. One problem seems to be that most people doing the tests don't want to manage the data. Another issue is that it's hard to know when tests are done correctly or done at all. How can we know people aren't fabricating data.

I've had ~20 mules tested and can post the results. However, I'd prefer to add them to a shared spreadsheet where each test needs to have a the corresponding test info shared (who tested, when, links to any video or other evidence of the test).
Yeah, data authentication is a problem sometimes
User avatar
Bolster
Member
Posts: 5557
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:27 pm
Location: CalyFRNia

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#15

Post by Bolster »

MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC ?

So...that's the damascus mule, I think....would the 34 pertain to the outer damascus part? Not the VG10 center certainly.
yablanowitz
Member
Posts: 6871
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:16 pm
Location: Liberal, Kansas

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#16

Post by yablanowitz »

Yeah, that sounds like the tester hit a soft layer.
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#17

Post by AlexRus »

Bolster wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:57 pm
MT07P DPS15/VG10 34HRC ?

So...that's the damascus mule, I think....would the 34 pertain to the outer damascus part? Not the VG10 center certainly.
My guess is that MT07P DPS15/VG10 being 34HRC is rather a mistake or a typo, along with MT18P CPM-S110V being 69HRC
Gtscotty
Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:53 pm

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#18

Post by Gtscotty »

Has anyone posted HRC results for the new MT31 in S45VN yet?
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing

#19

Post by AlexRus »

Gtscotty wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:04 am
Has anyone posted HRC results for the new MT31 in S45VN yet?
I haven't seen it yet. Maybe anyone else?
User avatar
AlexRus
Member
Posts: 1128
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:42 am

Re: Mule Team knives steel hardness testing results

#20

Post by AlexRus »

A little update guys:

Spyderco Mule MT28 SPY27 - 61.5±0.5 HRC

According to gx9
Attachments
Screenshot_20210508_095211.jpg
Post Reply