Mule #12 Cruwear

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Bolster
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Mule #12 Cruwear

#1

Post by Bolster »

Mule #12 of Cruwear in 2011. This was the first tool steel offering in the series, and the mule that was re-heat-treated and then underlined CRUWEAR on the ricasso, I think. The description on the Spyderco website states: "Upstate New York's Crucible Steel manufacturers Cru-Wear..." But that's not the same as CPM, Crucible Powder Metallurgy, is it?

Was Mule #12 a powdered or ingot version of Cruwear? If the ingot version, any idea of how much toughness would be reduced for the ingot vs the powdered version of Cruwear?

========== Edit ========

Do'h, question retracted. JuPaul posted the answer in another thread. Cruwear around 30 ft lbs; CMP Cruwear around 43 ft lbs.

Both plenty tough, given that many knife steels (typically stainless) are <10 ft lbs for toughness.

========== Edit, Edit ========

Sal said the Cruwear mule was powdered! See quote below.
Last edited by Bolster on Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
yablanowitz
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#2

Post by yablanowitz »

And all these years I thought 52100 and CPM M4 were tool steels.
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Tucson Tom
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#3

Post by Tucson Tom »

yablanowitz wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:58 pm
And all these years I thought 52100 and CPM M4 were tool steels.
I'd call M4 a tool steel, but not 52100.

When I think of "tool steel" I think of what much of the machining world calls "high speed steel". And certainly M4 qualifies.

52100 is sort of a refined carbon steel with a dab of Chromium, but I wouldn't call it a tool steel (i.e. a steel used to cut other steels). It certainly isn't stainless. It is used in bearings. One of my favorites for sure, whatever the case.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#4

Post by yablanowitz »

Yeah, I thought about that some more after I posted and I agree. But that still makes MT02 the first tool steel Mule.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#5

Post by Bolster »

OK, Mr. Snarky! Your argument is with Spyderco, not me...

"Cru-Wear...is the first tool steel offering in Spyderco's Mule Team Series."

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... ruwear/703
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#6

Post by yablanowitz »

Yep. By the time MT12 rolled out, they had forgotten MT02. Kind of like they keep saying the first Police Model was hollow ground. I have five of them and they are all flat saber grind, not hollow.
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Bolster
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#7

Post by Bolster »

Mystery finally solved, two years later (or 12 years later, depending where you start), thanks to Josh Crutchley, who found this:
sal wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:24 am
Some interesting history to share;

Many decades ago, being a knife Junky with fewer choices than we have today, I purchased a Gerber folding hunter with a steel called "Vascowear". I really liked the steel, probably still have the knife around somewhere. I contacted Crucible and asked about it. They said they had the chemistry and had made the earlier steel. They said they could make it for me. They called it Cruwear.

I ordered enough to make a "Mule Team" run. When the steel came in, they informed me that they had powdered it for me. I was surprised and pleased to have CPM Cruwear. (I like powdered steels).
The Mule Team was very popular so we began using it on production knives. The knife afi's like it so we're planning more in the future.

More recently, another foundry began making it and calling it Z-Wear. We'll be using it as well.

sal
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#8

Post by Xplorer »

That's a great Mule! Z-Wear is my personal favorite non-stainless steel. Great balance of attributes and tremendous sharpening response. When I make myself a knife intentionally I choose Z-wear 80% of the time.
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Josh Crutchley
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#9

Post by Josh Crutchley »

Bolster wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:07 pm
Mystery finally solved, two years later (or 12 years later, depending where you start), thanks to Josh Crutchley, who found this:
sal wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:24 am
Some interesting history to share;

Many decades ago, being a knife Junky with fewer choices than we have today, I purchased a Gerber folding hunter with a steel called "Vascowear". I really liked the steel, probably still have the knife around somewhere. I contacted Crucible and asked about it. They said they had the chemistry and had made the earlier steel. They said they could make it for me. They called it Cruwear.

I ordered enough to make a "Mule Team" run. When the steel came in, they informed me that they had powdered it for me. I was surprised and pleased to have CPM Cruwear. (I like powdered steels).
The Mule Team was very popular so we began using it on production knives. The knife afi's like it so we're planning more in the future.

More recently, another foundry began making it and calling it Z-Wear. We'll be using it as well.

sal
Problem is I've found conflicting info from Sal. Two posts saying Crucible powdered it by surprise and another about ingot. I tried asking Sal back when I found these posts but he never responded.
sal wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:49 am
Thanx for the support. Now maybe "youse guys" can help us pick some new Mule Teams?

The Cruware Mule is getting ready to be released again. CATRA tests were quite acceptable, especially for an ingot steel. The Elmax Mule teams are on the shelf for the next release. Then ???

Probably needs a new thread?

sal
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Bolster
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#10

Post by Bolster »

Wow, thanks Josh for your excellent research. So it's still a mystery! It's a Sal mystery--the most mysterious sorts of mysteries that ever mystified: "The Case of the Possibly Powdered MT#12."
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#11

Post by standy99 »

Xplorer wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:22 pm
That's a great Mule! Z-Wear is my personal favorite non-stainless steel. Great balance of attributes and tremendous sharpening response. When I make myself a knife intentionally I choose Z-wear 80% of the time.
And when you make me a knife :winking-tongue

(It’s already made and enjoyed)
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#12

Post by JRinFL »

All this time I thought it was ingot Cruwear in the mule?
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#13

Post by yablanowitz »

I suspect that after everything that went on with that Mule, it simply slipped Sal's mind at that moment that it was powder metal instead of the ingot steel he had expected when he ordered the steel.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#14

Post by Josh Crutchley »

yablanowitz wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:25 am
I suspect that after everything that went on with that Mule, it simply slipped Sal's mind at that moment that it was powder metal instead of the ingot steel he had expected when he ordered the steel.
If Sal doesn't remember the only way to know for sure is with a micrograph.
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Bolster
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#15

Post by Bolster »

Josh Crutchley wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:27 pm
yablanowitz wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:25 am
I suspect that after everything that went on with that Mule, it simply slipped Sal's mind at that moment that it was powder metal instead of the ingot steel he had expected when he ordered the steel.
If Sal doesn't remember the only way to know for sure is with a micrograph.

I was going to suggest some repressed memory recovery techniques for Sal, but maybe a micrograph would work as well.
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Re: Mule #12 Cruwear

#16

Post by Ramonade »

Too bad, i would've brought the candle !
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