Mule Team quantity discussion

[TomAiello]

I would definitely be very happy to join a 'Mule Team' that worked like a collectors club, and got me every single mule (2 of each would be even better). :)

[elmeringalo]

Hello Sal. In my particular case, I usually buy two to take advantage of the cost of shipping to Spain, but if you have to reduce the maximum to one, so that the project can continue, that's fine. If you choose to make an advance payment or a preliminary survey to make a demand forecast, it seems to me a better idea still and thus determine the quantity to be manufactured, of each steel. If you could make a reservation of the number you decide, for my part, it has at least one from each Mule. I think it's a very interesting project and it shouldn't go to waste

[sal]

Hi Edge-Up,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[Rwstubbz]

What about a lottery system? That would make them more valuable on the secondary market. I personally think that every steel nerd should be able to test their hearts out, but it may work and make them collectibles.

[austrian_spyder_fan]

I'm not in fixed blades a this point of my Spyderco collector's life.
But i think the idea of Mule Team is unique and thats what the spirit of Spyderco is.

How much should you make?
I don't know!
An old german saying goes like this: "Too little and too much is the fool's goal."
So i mean, you can't make it right for anyone.
But a pre order system whould be an option.

I like yablanowitz's idea about a regular production kit knife.
For me I really love working with wood so maybe someday i'll get a Mule/Kit doing my own scales.
A folder kit knife whould also be great for DIY custom projects, but that is another story.

[archangel]

Sal, thank you for being so open to discussion. I salute you.

So far, different mules have had different prices (all affordable, very reasonably priced, especially considering that there were some really premium steels among them). It's only logical, cause the steels you buy must have different prices. But the price of the finished product is also highly driven by the quantity of raw material you buy. So if you announce a new steel, and ask us if we'd be interested to see how many you should produce = how much steel you must buy, you can't really tell us upfront how much the new MT will cost, right? Any idea how to sort this out?

I am aware that many of you forumites will say that they'd buy the mule at any cost. But for some of us it makes a difference if the price is $50 or $90. MT28 with you proprietary own house steel at $50 was a no-brainer for me. To speak the truth, at $90 I most likely would have passed.

[LanM]

The presale model that Kickstarter/Indiegogo uses would be great, and it’s become much more popular these days. I know I’ve waited quite some time even on some products that didn’t turn out so great from freshman companies. Since it’s Spyderco and an already refined/established piece, that takes much of the worry out.

Definitely. I drop questionable dollars on potentially getting something from some guy in his garage..So I’d sure as heck drop real dollars to eventually get something From a company that’s been around longer than I’ve been alive.

[LanM]

I hate to say it, but the solution I see working the best is going to be the least popular option: put the middlemen in and normal markup as well. It has been fantastic being able to try new steels without breaking the bank, but as far as I can see, that ride is over. The word has spread, the Mules are (and always were) a steal. Snap them up and flip them for a profit.

Fervently disagree,
The solution to a scarcity problem is not to raise prices for all of us. The solution to scarcity is increased production when you want to reach the goal of actually completing the task at hand....from which I understand is feedback via an active experiment in the performance of these pieces which is the primary reason and not for collection. increasing sample size is always going to give you better results.

I would never buy a mule again if they went through traditional retail markup. Which means I may subsequently not buy a model of knife associated with that same steel if I was hesitant to begin with. So the secondary byproduct and significant benefit of offering these mules is not only to get them out into the hands of a bunch of people to figure out what the **** it’s gonna do performance wise but be get them exposed to a steel that they’d actually like to have more models and get them to spend more of their hard earned cash on more knives in the future.

I’mconfident that the best way to achieve that particular goal is not by tossing them out into the mix with the traditional retail attachments. If the goal is to just sell Spyderco mules as fixed knives then that’s a different story.

[Sumdumguy]

Honestly, I prefer the Mule Team being in house only.

It makes them special. It's like a perk of being part of the family.

If I were to change anything, it would be to make a pre sale option for them on the forum. I would have ordered atleast one.

I missed out on this one, unfortunately. But, as is always, there will be more things to want in the future.

Limit 2.

Presale on the forum.

Keep it SFO only. This is a skunk works project, not a commercial venture.

[Glock27]

Bob's random thoughts:
I'd be in for pre-order.
Mules should be Factory Direct.
Surely this Forum should be able to gauge interest for each particular steel being considered.
SPY27 is in great demand because it's Spyderco's own improvement to their workhorse VG-10.
Could probably Re-run any earlier Mule that sold out in a day. Could Pre-order them as well.
Analyze why some Mules didn't sell well.
Automatic Second Run for any Mule that sells out in a hour! ;-)
G27

[WilliamMunny]

Sal,

I am fairly new to this forum but I have been a big Spyderco fan since I purchased my original Endura 25 or so years ago. I still actually have it but I don't carry it too much in fear of losing it. The Mule Team is a great program and I am very excited to get in on it. Thank you for being so engaging with your customers, be low are some of my thoughts.

1. If you start pre-ordering keep the limit at 2. If you sell them as before, keep the limit to 1. As always keep selling from Spyder Co Direct only.

2/3. As most say, pre-order is the way to go. Open a 21 day window to pre-order, if you pre-order maybe include a patch or challenge coin. Once you get your number of per-orders make an additional 25% to sell on your site. So if you get 600 per-orders, make 750, which would allow 150 to be offered to people who did not get in on the pre-order. Charge for the knife up front if you pre-order, 3 months is not a long time to wait for a custom product. There is no way for you know know how many knives to make, this would take the guessing game out.

4. I don't think spacing out sales would have any advantage, you will have a certain demand for a Mule when it is fancy and new. But once it its not the cool new Mule your demand would go down. It is also a challenge for people to get in on one release date for a Mule, let alone 3-4-5 release dates of the same Mule. It could lead to frustration and resellers having more of a chance to buy additional knives they plan to flip.

5. If you pre-order knives then you would not need to poll to see demand. A poll is good but depending on the time, day, month you may or may not get accurate numbers. If you poll mid summer when everyone is on vacation who is checking the forum for a poll? But mid winter when everyone has nothing better to do your numbers might go up.

6. Keep the Mules coming, they look great. Offer pre-orders for a 21 day period any longer would delay the release of the knife. Charge for the per-order and include a patch or challenge coin for being in on the pre-order. Add 25% to the pre-order number for people who did not get in to sell.

You have been doing a great job with these and I love the forum. Don't let frustrated people get to you, its not worth your time. After all, dare I say this in this forum, its just a stupid knife when it comes down to it. There will always be new releases and more knives. Thanks again, best of luck with whichever way you go, there will always be a demand and you will always have happy Mule owners at the end of the day.

[youeatwaffles]

In my opinion, I think you try to do a presale however long in advance that you need. I would say for the presale that the order quantity is unlimited because the customer has paid up front in full and you have no risk of inventory sitting on the shelf. The crazy knife nuts likely won't mind putting up $50+ a year ahead of time to secure a mule in a steel they know little about. From there you could maybe produce a smaller batch for the "add to cart snipers" that miss the pre-order and still want a shot at snagging one. I would think that this structure would keep the hurt feelings to a minimum, as everyone had a chance to put in a pre-order. I also think folks need to understand where you are coming from as well, in that the mule team project is out of the kindness of your heart and that you don't owe anyone anything in terms of the mule team. It's very big of you to keep the project moving forward and people should respect that. Thanks!

[cody6268]

I'm not in fixed blades a this point of my Spyderco collector's life.
But i think the idea of Mule Team is unique and thats what the spirit of Spyderco is.

How much should you make?
I don't know!
An old german saying goes like this: "Too little and too much is the fool's goal."
So i mean, you can't make it right for anyone.
But a pre order system whould be an option.

I like yablanowitz's idea about a regular production kit knife.
For me I really love working with wood so maybe someday i'll get a Mule/Kit doing my own scales.
A folder kit knife whould also be great for DIY custom projects, but that is another story.

There used to be a "kit knife" called the Woodcraft, sold only through the eponymous chain of woodworking supply stores to put scales on. Unfortunately, they're not making it anymore. But, personally, I like the size (under 7" OAL) and blade shape better than the Mule.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68675

[Cl1ff]

Happy Valentines Day Sal and everyone!
So glad I can be a part of this forum and discuss knives with you all every day!

I especially like both the idea of a pre-sale and a Mule Collectors Club. Waiting for a period of time is not an issue to me.
Perhaps it would be a decent idea to also make slightly more blades than the pre-sale to have available when you get them in house? If not, I understand because I’ve got no real clue how this stuff works behind the scenes.

The limit per person, if any, should be more than a single item in my opinion.

Honestly I’m open to a lot like the full production kit knife versions, the polls, re-runs, etc.

[eonbluemantra]

I guess I’m in the minority here, but it was available for an hour. If you wanted one and set a timer you most likely got one. You’ll never please everyone Sal as I’m sure you already know. I’m in favor of limiting one per customer, however, I assume you have the data on percentage of people who bought 2 and if it was insignificant then no change needed. Either way thank you for making these available. I’m not into a 1 year pre-order personally. Whichever decision you go with I will adapt as needed.

[TomAiello]

I think the Spy27 Mule would make a great regular production 'kit knife'. It's not some crazy carbide monster, it's stainless, it would work as a general knife for most people, and (perhaps most importantly) it's proprietary to Spyderco.

[Josh Crutchley]

I like the idea of bringing the older steels back with different heat treatments. They could have something to tell them apart like the Cruwear Mule underline.

[gdwtvb]

Thanks Sal for bringing this up. The best solution I see is a presale arrangement, and include a bump in price. (This would be necessary due to the added costs Spyderco would have in implementing a presale arrangement. Plus while I admire and support Spyderco doing the mule team as a service to interested individuals, I think you owe it to your employees to make spyderco profitable for continued benefits, expansion, and raises. The mule team should not be a money loosing proposition, or even a net zero profit part of your business, ***my opinion, you're in charge.*** ) I envision the flow to go something like this.

First an announcement of a new mule steel with a write up of its properties in the Spyderco Byte newsletter and reveal. A projected price and ordering window, with prepayment. I think one month should be enough for everyone that wants one to get the order in. (Limit 2)

Next is where you would need to make decisions. You know your manufacturing capability and how many pieces constitute a run, I'm going to use 600 just as an example. The first 600 orders would be expected within 3-6 months, and would be noted on the order. If it is a big demand, the next 600 orders have a longer window of fulfilment say 9 months to a year. I would expect anything with longer than a year before expected delivery date to be a pre-order rather than a presale.

Although this opens up lots of other headaches. People move. People change their minds and demand refunds. Etc.

I also wonder if expanding the mule program will adversely affect Spyderco's business. Spy27 mule sales instead of spy27 models knives. How many K2 models were sold because people wanted to try out 10V or more likely be able to brag that they had a knife in 10V. (I did, I admit it.)

It doesn't seem like the mule sales are the same this time, I think more sales were to people wanting a 'extreme deal' on a Spyderco fixed blade rather than wanting to compare the steel performance. Sadly with the way things have changed, I doubt it could every go back to a group of steel junkies trying out different steels.

Perhaps the mule team could be Spyderco's first custom shop item? Pick your steel, pick your handles, make a leather sheath as an option and maybe a laser for custom engraving.

Grizz

[Dazen]

Honestly, I prefer the Mule Team being in house only.

It makes them special. It's like a perk of being part of the family.

If I were to change anything, it would be to make a pre sale option for them on the forum. I would have ordered atleast one.

I missed out on this one, unfortunately. But, as is always, there will be more things to want in the future.

Limit 2.

Presale on the forum.

Keep it SFO only. This is a skunk works project, not a commercial venture.

My feelings are pretty much this ^

You could rerun the SPY27 as regular production and list it as a “Kit Knife”, since it is a proprietary steel.

[austrian_spyder_fan]

I'm not in fixed blades a this point of my Spyderco collector's life.
But i think the idea of Mule Team is unique and thats what the spirit of Spyderco is.

How much should you make?
I don't know!
An old german saying goes like this: "Too little and too much is the fool's goal."
So i mean, you can't make it right for anyone.
But a pre order system whould be an option.

I like yablanowitz's idea about a regular production kit knife.
For me I really love working with wood so maybe someday i'll get a Mule/Kit doing my own scales.
A folder kit knife whould also be great for DIY custom projects, but that is another story.

There used to be a "kit knife" called the Woodcraft, sold only through the eponymous chain of woodworking supply stores to put scales on. Unfortunately, they're not making it anymore. But, personally, I like the size (under 7" OAL) and blade shape better than the Mule.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68675

Thanks Cody,
I agree with you. I Like the Woodcraft shape more

Regards
ASF