Mule Team quantity discussion

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dlum1
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#141

Post by dlum1 »

I find it interesting that the spy27 mule sold out so quickly. I planned to pick one up, was busy with work, and they were gone by the time I went to order one. I wonder if the lower price tag made them more popular or if it was a result of being the return of the mule team project and FOMO drove the sales -- similar to how sprints and exclusives sell to both users and flippers. Somewhat unfortunately, flipping is becoming a common practice nowdays to make a quick and easy $20 per knife. Another run would likely dissuade flippers from buying up the stock in future runs if they can't move their inventory. Of course, spyderco might be left with sitting inventory. From a business perspective, Spyderco is in a great position such that their products are selling quickly. I wouldn't mind a pre-order with a long wait time but for now, I'm pretty happy the mule team project is back. Just hoping I'm quick to the draw on the next release...
yablanowitz
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#142

Post by yablanowitz »

I find it interesting that many of the things people are asking for now are exactly what Sal DIDN'T want when he started this.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/ste ... ns.445613/

Pre-order/pre-pay sounds feasible until you factor in the lead time. How many of you are going to blindly plunk down your hard earned cash then wait patiently for two or three years to get your Mule? How do you determine a price for prepayments when you don't know if you can get the steel, how much it will cost to buy, how much it will cost to machine, or how much it will cost to heat treat it?

When this project was still on the drawing board, the Spydercrew asked for e-mail responses to a few basic questions in order to gauge interest. They had no idea how much these things would cost or when they might be available. The response was so feeble that the project nearly died right there. Sal was thinking 600 pieces, and as I recall they got less than 200 e-mails, and not all of them were enthusiastic. One of the ideas being kicked around at the time was a Mule Team Club, but people weren't willing to commit without knowing what kind of financial burden they were signing up for, and at that time it was a totally unknown factor.

If the steel is set for the next several Mules, I would suggest putting a limit of one on the purchase for the first week and watching the outcome. If they can weed out the bots and flippers and put them into the hands of the people who really want to use them it will give a better idea of how to proceed on down the line.

And always remember, each and every one of these Mules is a gift from Sal to us.
dlum1
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#143

Post by dlum1 »

These are all good points. But to be candid, a good engineer should have answers to all these questions before any potential pre-order is announced. Supply, materials, material waste, and manufacturing cost all can be estimated after obtaining a material sample. But you're right in the end. The necessity to order materials in bulk with set minima far in advance would likely kill the project if people don't want to wait more than a year (which would be very probable). Additionally, all that time estimating materials supply and manufacturing cost would be wasted if the minimum pre-order requirements is not met. Establishing pre-orders is somewhat of a logistical nightmare because the consumer can be a wild card. I think your suggested limit for 1 per customer for the initial release is a great idea. Lifting the limit a day or two after the initial release would certainly give people, such as myself, a chance to purchase a mule before they sell out. Guess we'll have to wait and see if Spyderco agrees.
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sal
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#144

Post by sal »

Thanx Jack, for the perspective.

Thanx for all of the suggestions. Many of them are really not feasible without significantly raising the cost to get it to you. Maintaining records or pre-orders and holding funds, etc. would really complicate the project. We have raised the quantity of some of the steels for future runs, but we won't see that for a while as most of the upcoming steels for the project were ordered a long time ago.

I can see a one per customer limit for initial offering.

Hi Dlum,

Most of the time, we do not get a sample to test. We have to order the batch to get a sample. Most of these steels are fairly exotic and the foundries do not maintain inventory. Some of the steels we tried to get have minimums that are far too large to try. So we're mostly going by chemistry or requests from you.

Even the highly sought after steels can take a while. Larrin's new yet "un-named" steel Will be in high demand due to his knowledge and involvement in the blade industry. We did get a sample to test that is being sent, but getting enough to do a Mule Team run might take a it of time, even with Crucible, with whom we work with a great deal.

Crucible is also working on the next pour of SPY27 is also which seems to be in high demand despite the exclusivity.

sal
QUICKSILVER
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#145

Post by QUICKSILVER »

Sal,
Please keep the limit at 2. Don't want to chase the second one at a high price from a flipper.
Again there a few of us that really want all the mules. We are highly motivated and I for one would be willing to make a large non-refundable deposit for the next mule regardless of steel or price or date of release. I would even be willing to pay an additional fee that would off set your additional costs and effort in offering a reservation. Think about it.
Thanks,
Bill Maier
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standy99
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#146

Post by standy99 »

sal wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:26 pm


I can see a one per customer limit for initial offering.



sal


Please no 1 only Sal, this would see a double in postage for us Australian buyers.

I can justify the $45 US shipping to Australia for 2 but not for just 1 at a time.
Im a vegetarian as technically cows are made of grass and water.
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sal
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#147

Post by sal »

I'll discuss the question with staff.

sal
TomAiello
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#148

Post by TomAiello »

Sal, what if you just did multiple small runs until demand dried up? They'd be a long time apart, but at least people wouldn't be killing themselves trying to get in on the drops, because they'd know it wasn't a 'never again' situation. And you guys wouldn't be committed to making 5000 of something that didn't sell. You could just make 600 (or whatever) at a time, scheduling repeat runs for anything that sold out quickly (and announcing that immediately to reduce flipping). People who really wanted the mule could just wait a couple years and get the re-run, instead of people getting all bent out of shape because they missed the drop.
dlum1
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#149

Post by dlum1 »

Hi Sal, thank you for addressing my comments. You're piece of information basically throws most of my ideas about pre-orders out the window. I'm dumbfounded that the suppliers require you to purchase in bulk without offering a sample. Talk about risky! Can the foundry simply not produce a small batch? I suppose they provide some heat-treating information, but establishing any manufacturing estimates without an actual sample would be quite challenging. I'm used to requesting small chip samples from manufacturers to make measurements before ordering a batch, so I figured requesting a material sample would be a non-issue. I apologize for that assumption. All that being said, I guess there's no easy solution, but I appreciate the opportunity you and Spyderco prove to us fans!
austrian_spyder_fan
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#150

Post by austrian_spyder_fan »

I spent hours and days the last weeks to find a Mule in Europe.
No way, not even one exists on ebay.
Ebay.com from 150 to 250 bucks + shipping and taxes/customs.
So i give up.

ASF
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sal
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#151

Post by sal »

Hi Tom,

We really don't want to impede our production with same Mules over and over.

Hi Dlum,

Some foundries will send samples if they have inventory. It seems that many of the steels were looking for are not common. In the case of Larrin's new CPM-MagnaCut, we're getting a sample and we'll also get a run. I don't know how many are planned or how much we can get?

Any way we do it, it's not a simple process as every new steel is a new project. We also have to learn to process each steel.

sal
dlum1
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#152

Post by dlum1 »

CPM-MagnaCut That's a great name and immediately reveals the steels intended usage. I'm down for at least one! If this is Larrin's design, I imagine he simulated the carbide (or nitride?) formation and is likely tweaking the experimental heat-treat as we speak (assuming he isn't already done). Part of me wish I did more solid state /condensed matter physics. Given Larrin's reputation here, I suspect it'll be another quick sell-out for the mules... especially since the name doesn't leave much to the imagination.
Trev
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#153

Post by Trev »

Hi,
I’m new to the knife game, but hope to get in on the next mule release. Not completely new. More like I’m now able to afford real/quality knives. I’ve gone through quite a few of the forums and I see the passion and frustration on both sides. It’s hard to implement some type of ordering change without increased costs. I did see another post suggesting possibly a preorder list, but not necessarily with pre payment. Maybe an early ordering period for those that signed up, or even a heads up in this forum thread so we can all have our fingers on the order button. Hopefully I can help contribute to the program in the future. Thanks

Trev.
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Glock27
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#154

Post by Glock27 »

I missed out on the SV45vn Mule because I was ~45 minutes late in logging on. To see them pop up on ebay minutes later makes me dislike Speculators! The only way to stick it to speculators is to have a policy that any release selling out in less than an Hour or specified time frame will trigger an automatic additional run. Perhaps when negotiating for Steel for Mules a clause to increase order size if 1st run sells out quickly? I would be perfectly OK Paying in advance to assure I would receive 1st run even if it meant waiting a year or more.
G27
yablanowitz
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#155

Post by yablanowitz »

Just bumping this up for the latest rehash.
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attila
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#156

Post by attila »

Data point: 2000 of the Magnacut was insufficient.
Have: old S30V Native, HAP40 Endura, ZDP DF2, S110V Manix LW, Cru-wear Para 3, SE H1 DF2, S90V Native 5, K390 Urban, SE Pac Salt, P.I.T.S., XHP Manix LW, SB Caly 3, B70P, PMA11, K03, Kapara, REX 45 Military, 154CM Manix LW, Swick, AEB-L Urban, KC Cruwear Manix, M390 PM2, Mantra 2, CruCarta Shaman, M390 Manix, K390 Police 4, S90V Manix LW, Rex 45 Manix LW, 20CV Manix, Rex 45 Lil’Native, Shaman, C208GP, Cruwear Manix, Cruwear Manix, M4 Chief, Z-max!!!

Want: SPY27, K490, Swick 5
.
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Chleiti
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#157

Post by Chleiti »

attila wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:33 pm
Data point: 2000 of the Magnacut was insufficient.
I admit upfront that I have no idea how the backend of an e-commerce platform works but I wonder if it would be possible for someone to examine the statistics on today's site traffic to determine how many different individual users (and/or bots) were trying to place orders. Obviously you can't go by number of page hits since everyone was frantically refreshing for a while, and it's probably messy to impossible to filter out the noise from folks who were trying on multiple devices simultaneously, but it would be very interesting to see how many distinct buyers were out there this morning. Was it 1100 people competing for 2000 mules? 2500? 5000?

On the one hand, it seems like that would be useful data for the company to have, but on the other hand there's no way to know how much of the excitement specifically over a ~~MagnaCut~~ mule would carry on for future batches. I was right there crashing the site with everybody else this morning but if this steel is as good for all-round use as it sounds (and assuming I can escape being bitten by the collecting bug) then I'll likely be happy with this one as my first and only fixed blade.
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nerdlock
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#158

Post by nerdlock »

One thing to note with the MC drop is that we were also competing with FB and IG knife collector groups, a relatively recent phenomenon (2 years), but it looks like its going to be the trend going forward, for better or for worse. These folks can drive up demand and hype like there's no tomorrow with FOMO.

This is why 2k units still seemed unable to cope up with the demand.
8Cr13MoV:N690Co:VG10:S30V:S35VN:S45VN:Elmax:SPY27:H1:LC200N:4V:MagnaCut:CTS-XHP:204P:M390:20CV:Cru-Wear:Z-Wear:M4:Rex-45:10V:K390:15V:S90V:Z-Max:Maxamet
Clanleslie
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#159

Post by Clanleslie »

Does anyone know the Rockwell hardness on the magnacut mule?
Clanleslie
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion

#160

Post by Clanleslie »

Double tap.

sal
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