Mule Team quantity discussion
- senorsquare
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
Late to this discussion, but I think the way to go is a pre-order with additional mules added based on a percentage of pre-order numbers. Not sure what the percentage over should be, 10%, 15%, 20%?.. Maybe it's a simple case of rounding up to the next hundred or two. Say you get 483 folks sign up in the pre-order window then maybe you do a 600 piece run. If 683 folks sign up then maybe consider 800 or 900 depending on what risks you're willing to take on production costs, etc.
In the end it's still a guessing game but a pre-order is at least one way to limit the variables.
In the end it's still a guessing game but a pre-order is at least one way to limit the variables.
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
I'm with one of the above posts in that I would be willing to pre-order. I really wanted to try the latest one but work got in the way for a little while and then boom, all gone. That would solve the supply problem and the excess inventory problem maybe, get enough for all the pre-orders plus a small extra and go. Guess I will have to really be on the ball for the next release.
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
This seems like a most reasonable course of action, for all the reasons cited. I do think that making the SPY27 Mule a production item would satisfy folks looking for a great starting point for a kit knife, and would reduce demand for the following MT releases to just folks who want to try a given steel. I will say, I understand the kit knife sub-market for mules now what I have my MT28 in hand, size and layout wise, it should make for a near perfect hunting blade.sal wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:30 pmMaybe the best solution would be to hold as we are and see what the next few Mules do? Regular production of a Mule in SPY27 would serve as a "Kit knife" for those that are seeking that, and that might reduce the demand for other steels as well as get more of our steel out there?
sal
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
I like the idea of a regular production SPY27 as a "kit knife" and then other steels like the normal mules have been. With a production SPY27, I would be making a few as Birthday/Christmas gifts for friends and family.sal wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:30 pmI'm getting a lot of suggestions for which I thank you. Most of the suggestions seem to add complexity and a lot of paperwork, follow up, individual communication, etc. Which I'm not really big on. Not only does it eat up a lot of someone's time, but it adds cost.
Since the steel for the next 6 mules are made or are being made, there is little that we can change. Maybe the best solution would be to hold as we are and see what the next few Mules do? Regular production of a Mule in SPY27 would serve as a "Kit knife" for those that are seeking that, and that might reduce the demand for other steels as well as get more of our steel out there?
sal
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
Hi Sbdude,
Welcome to our forum.
sal
Welcome to our forum.
sal
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
NONE of these knifes should be a kit knife. That goes against the whole purpose of the Mule Project as far as I can understand. Spyderco wants us to go out and use these knifes in the real world. Whether you are cutting boxes or gutting and skinning. I'm pretty sure Spyderco would like to hear our feed back. I think a good heads up prior to release to everyone on this form would be a feasible option. Not too much work since Spyderco has our emails and a forum moderator. Emails could only go out to active participates. Up to us to stay on top of it and not get too hurt when we miss out.
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
Hi $chmitty,
Welcome to our forum.
The argument for a constant is the reason for a regular Mule Team model. Not as a kit, but the kit is a potential way to have a constant.
sal
Welcome to our forum.
The argument for a constant is the reason for a regular Mule Team model. Not as a kit, but the kit is a potential way to have a constant.
sal
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
I still think the kit knife idea is good and SPY27 is the best choice for that. It also serves to get more of that steel out into the hands of users. For all the other steels, keep it mostly the same, but I favor a partial pre-payment to help determine run quantities.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.
M.N.O.S.D. 0001
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
I like the idea of a pre-order with downpayment for forum users for future Mules. Would certainly give an idea of the interest level. Not sure if that would have to be too much in advance as I have no idea of the time frame from decision to produce to actual production.JRinFL wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:12 amI still think the kit knife idea is good and SPY27 is the best choice for that. It also serves to get more of that steel out into the hands of users. For all the other steels, keep it mostly the same, but I favor a partial pre-payment to help determine run quantities.
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
Here is the original proposal (argument) from 2012: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57171&p=808382&hilit=mule#p808382
brian
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
I like the idea of pre-order, however it seems like the crunch would just move forward in time to the pre-order start date. I think the only way to make the Mules more accessible is to make more of them. In a way I would like to see a run of 600 released 100 at a time, on different days and different times. Sprinkle them around if you will. Spy 27 as a regular stocked item would help. Rerunning popular Mules would help too.
As for the "kit" knife component, I think it is a really important element. I have heard fit issues with the Halpern scales. I do not own any but I would like to own removable scales and be able to move them from one Mule to the next as I choose. My biggest problem is only 1 Mule.
As for the "kit" knife component, I think it is a really important element. I have heard fit issues with the Halpern scales. I do not own any but I would like to own removable scales and be able to move them from one Mule to the next as I choose. My biggest problem is only 1 Mule.
Spyderco: Tenacious G10, Waterway, Para 3 Spy27, Pacific Salt H1, Catcherman, In the Mule Team Stable(Z-Max, Z-Wear, S45VN, Magnacut, SRS13/SUS405, M398, Aeb-l, 15v)
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
The Halpern scales have no fit issues except with the earliest Mule. They are purposely designed to end just shy of the outline of the Mule steel. To get a perfect fit you would need them to a bit oversized so they could be ground to fit. That defeats the "bolt on" aspect. I understand most don't care for the look, but they fit as designed.
People seem to forget this was not meant to be a money maker, Spyderco is releasing these as close to cost as they can. That means we need to ask for things that will not drive the cost so high they completely abandon the project. Multiple releases, re-runs, and even the pre-order idea add costs. Every minute someone at Spyderco works on this project is time not spent on another, profitable project.
Sometimes I think the whole thing should be limited to metallurgists, amateur knife makers, and confirmed testers. Yes, that would keep me from getting any. This only semi-serious, so don't break out the torches just yet!
People seem to forget this was not meant to be a money maker, Spyderco is releasing these as close to cost as they can. That means we need to ask for things that will not drive the cost so high they completely abandon the project. Multiple releases, re-runs, and even the pre-order idea add costs. Every minute someone at Spyderco works on this project is time not spent on another, profitable project.
Sometimes I think the whole thing should be limited to metallurgists, amateur knife makers, and confirmed testers. Yes, that would keep me from getting any. This only semi-serious, so don't break out the torches just yet!
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
Friends call me Jim. As do my foes.
M.N.O.S.D. 0001
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
I think the mention of cost is my correct answer for every question. What is most cost effective? Ok, do that.
I picked up a Mule #27 Pd#1, only because I was watching the website and the forum. I will pick up a Spy#27 when they come around again. The Mule Team is the only game going that allows one to feel steel for steel, same knife. As a hobbyist I find this very appealing. I have even come to like doing cord wraps now that I own a skeletonized knife. The affordability is key for me. My money is better spent on blades and paracord right now, bolt on scales when there are 3 or so in the stable. And, I don't mind to wait until stock comes around again.
Stability is the trick. The Mule Team has ebbed and flowed. Now it is ripping along, floating more boats, and that is good. When Spyderco figures out the numbers we will get blades. And if there are more people into it, and more numbers, it should lower per unit cost, or enable more varieties. More players in the game is a good thing. I am not a fan of flippers and fakes, oh well.
I am also not a fan of sitting at the computer refreshing the page. Sorting the works out so there is enough stock that people can buy stuff, little leftover so the program is cost effective and not being so precious that the secondary market kills the hobby are the 3 biggest problems holding the Mule Team back.
I picked up a Mule #27 Pd#1, only because I was watching the website and the forum. I will pick up a Spy#27 when they come around again. The Mule Team is the only game going that allows one to feel steel for steel, same knife. As a hobbyist I find this very appealing. I have even come to like doing cord wraps now that I own a skeletonized knife. The affordability is key for me. My money is better spent on blades and paracord right now, bolt on scales when there are 3 or so in the stable. And, I don't mind to wait until stock comes around again.
Stability is the trick. The Mule Team has ebbed and flowed. Now it is ripping along, floating more boats, and that is good. When Spyderco figures out the numbers we will get blades. And if there are more people into it, and more numbers, it should lower per unit cost, or enable more varieties. More players in the game is a good thing. I am not a fan of flippers and fakes, oh well.
I am also not a fan of sitting at the computer refreshing the page. Sorting the works out so there is enough stock that people can buy stuff, little leftover so the program is cost effective and not being so precious that the secondary market kills the hobby are the 3 biggest problems holding the Mule Team back.
Spyderco: Tenacious G10, Waterway, Para 3 Spy27, Pacific Salt H1, Catcherman, In the Mule Team Stable(Z-Max, Z-Wear, S45VN, Magnacut, SRS13/SUS405, M398, Aeb-l, 15v)
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
With the current interest rates the cost of capital is a far cry from what it used to be.yablanowitz wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:00 amThat's easy to say when it isn't your capital tied up in inventory that isn't moving and won't generate significant profit when it does.
The same as with the ready-made scales and easily available sheaths: Mule may not be exactly a niche product anymore.
Probably have got it lost in that long message of mine.
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
Hi Brian,
a decade ahead in time, like usual.
sal
a decade ahead in time, like usual.
sal
- defenestrate
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
I'm good with things as is and don't mind watching the mule forum to find out about availability - had I been aware, I would likely have been able to grab an MT-28.
Strongly agree that having a "regular run" Mule in a steel likely to be used for other knives (like SPY27) is a great idea. It makes a decent serviceable Mule available to all and makes for a good comparison steel against new and/or exotic steel in other models and would just be a good, affordable fixed blade to have around.
Strongly agree that having a "regular run" Mule in a steel likely to be used for other knives (like SPY27) is a great idea. It makes a decent serviceable Mule available to all and makes for a good comparison steel against new and/or exotic steel in other models and would just be a good, affordable fixed blade to have around.
Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
Require pre-pay for up to 3 mules, give 90 days notice to those who a sign-up on a mule registry. Make a couple hundred extra perhaps for distribution later. No kits. No retail sales. I now have a half dozen mules all over my house and garage and in my trucks, they get beaten and loved...I bought from the beginning of the mule program. Almost all of my other (40) Spyderco folding knives just sit on a shelf all pretty... waiting for a party. Please STOP any madness of last minute speculation that is now bound to occur otherwise.
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
I would prefer to have my name and credit card information on file to AUTOMATICALLY receive 2 of every NEW Spyderco Mule Team blade released, until **** freezes over. You might call it the 'Spyderco Mule Team Club', much like the old book or record clubs. When I wasn't notified about the MT28 sale by email, I looked on eBay and was shocked to see how many of these brand new MT blades were listed at a 400% mark-up! There are some people that are ONLY interested in RESELLING these mules and would probably try anything to get around the quantity restrictions. Maybe the 'Club' would help to control some of these gougers and offer a more predictable demand for these blades. I now have a complete set of 1 or 2 of each Spyderco Mule Team blade released and I want to keep it that way. I've never sold one and never plan to. The current decision to stop announcing new Mule Team blades through email means that I have to check the Mule Team forum almost daily. This is unacceptable and means that I will probably miss out on some future MT releases. I did manage to get my 2 MT28 blades after all, thanks to Derek at the factory!
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Re: Mule Team quantity discussion
"by sal » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:31 am
Hi $chmitty,
Welcome to our forum.
The argument for a constant is the reason for a regular Mule Team model. Not as a kit, but the kit is a potential way to have a constant.
sal"
Hmmm. Potential. Constant. Create, Test, Edge-u-cate. I have seen change bring more knife enthusiasts to the Mule Team. I kinda think that not changing is why the Mule Team sales and interest dropped off. Not changing only helps collectors and flippers. More availability and better availability helps to check those 3 boxes in the banner, "Create, Test, Edge-u-cate."
Hi $chmitty,
Welcome to our forum.
The argument for a constant is the reason for a regular Mule Team model. Not as a kit, but the kit is a potential way to have a constant.
sal"
Hmmm. Potential. Constant. Create, Test, Edge-u-cate. I have seen change bring more knife enthusiasts to the Mule Team. I kinda think that not changing is why the Mule Team sales and interest dropped off. Not changing only helps collectors and flippers. More availability and better availability helps to check those 3 boxes in the banner, "Create, Test, Edge-u-cate."
Spyderco: Tenacious G10, Waterway, Para 3 Spy27, Pacific Salt H1, Catcherman, In the Mule Team Stable(Z-Max, Z-Wear, S45VN, Magnacut, SRS13/SUS405, M398, Aeb-l, 15v)