Mule 23 and Mule 27 Steel opinions and Mule 28

[standy99]

Just purchased a couple of Mule,s

Mule Team 23 CPM 20CV - PlainEdge (MT23P)

Mule Team 27 Micro-Melt PD#1 - PlainEdge (MT27P)

Not the smartest tool in the shed when it comes to types of modern steel

I have read a bit about both but seems they have similar characteristics

( Bought one handle and one sheath so which one should I try first )

[Tucson Tom]

CPM 20CV is one manufacturers version of M390, which is another manufacturers version of CTS 204P. An excellent stainless steel and one of my favorite all time blade steels in whatever version.

PD1 is (as I understand it) a version instead of Cruwear, but made by Carpenter. This is NOT a stainless steel. Don't let that worry you though, this is (Cruwear that is) a highly regarded steel by many people. A great balance of properties and pleasant to sharpen. I have read almost nothing about PD1 specifically, but I think it is safe to expect the same from PD1 as from Cruwear. Be aware of the fact it is non-stainless and enjoy it.

Now what kind of advice were you looking for?

[Nate]

Congrats! The Mules are a great fixed blade pattern imo.

I don't have anything in either of those two steels unfortunately (I have a pair of the B70P mules), but I can give you my layman's understanding from reading the forums way too much. :rolleyes:

20CV should be essentially the same as M390 or 204-P. Generally considered one of the top performing steels in wear and corrosion resistance. It's also reportedly fairly easy to sharpen vs. the more extreme alloys like s90v.

PD1 is very similar composition-wise to Cruwear (I do have a Cruwear Manix), which has been very well received. Compared to 20CV, I'd expect people to say you give up some wear resistance and a fair amount of corrosion resistance in exchange for greater toughness and ease of sharpening.

Hope that helps to get the ball rolling and that you get some good use out of your new blades.

(Tuscon Tom beat me to it, I'm glad we're not contradicting each other! :p)

[silvrjeepr]

I also have a mule in 20cv and love that knife. Be sure to post on comparison with the PD1 mule!

[standy99]

Thanks guys.

Will give the PD#1 a go first. Am a GB1 fanboy so am used to less stainless characteristics like M4 ( having been a butcher for years in the past I have always picked high carbon steel )

Live tropical and fish and hunt a lot so will be good to compare both over time.

Now what kind of advice were you looking for?

Think you covered it, but if you have and tricks on how to slow the saltwater crocodiles up so I can dress a water buffalo or pig on the flood plains here in the Northern Territory

[Nate]

This may be obvious/redundant if you're comfortable with carbon steels, but one tip I have is that if you're planning to just bolt on the scales and keep them swappable, moisture will get under them and cause rust over time.

Probably low risk on the 20CV, but still possible. Certainly something to watch with the PD1. I've had some rust develop under the scales on one of my stainless B70P mules. When I used to have the K390 mule, black spots developed under the scales within minutes after I washed it and didn't immediately take off the scales to dry the tang as well.

Wiping the tang down with tuff-glide or another oil/ lubricant will add some protection, but still something you may want to watch.

Here is an old pic of the B70P mule:



The tang had a thin coat of mineral oil when I put the scales on, but after many months and washings it started to rust. It was minor and came off easily with steel wool/automotive sandpaper, but still not something I'd want to leave unchecked.

[standy99]

Thanks Nate
On top of that already, plan on cutting a blank of felt and soaking in crc tackle guard and placing one on each side prior to attaching handle.
Live in a tropical climate and well aware of issue.

Might be a tip for others

https://www.crcindustries.com.au/produc ... ckle-guard

[Nate]

Nice! Never would have thought of the felt idea.

[standy99]

Nice! Never would have thought of the felt idea.

Comes in packs of several colours

[Tucson Tom]

Rust under the scales. Who would have thought, but it makes total sense. I need to run in and check the PM A11 mule I use all the time in
the kitchen. I like the impregnated felt idea. Thanks.

As for saltwater crocodiles, hoo boy -- you are on your own there !!

[Tucson Tom]

And indeed, I fetched my PM A11 mule (MT26) from the kitchen, pulled the scales off, and there is rust under the scales -- even a tad worse than what Nate shows -- but nothing that can't be scrubbed off and then we can consider new measures in the future. This is no great surprise given that PMA11 is a tool steel with only 5.1 percent chromium. It might well be far worse if this was not the southern Arizona desert.

I am surprised though to see rust with B70P, which has 14.38 percent chromium. Of course "stainless" is a relative term and only steels like H1 or LC200N are never expected to exhibit corrosion. The traditional threshold for calling something stainless is 13 percent, but this is probably just a handy rule of thumb.

Given that the thin crack between the scale and tang pulls and holds water by capillary action, it is a perfect situation to generate rust.

[Nate]

...Given that the thin crack between the scale and tang pulls and holds water by capillary action, it is a perfect situation to generate rust.

Yeah, I think that's the key. I haven't had any issues with B70P otherwise. It should have close to the same amount of Chromium as s30v, which I've had some spotting on under adverse conditions.

Not this adverse though :eek::


(s30v Blur, not my pic)

Glad you took a look under your mule's scales sooner than later!

[Tucson Tom]

Not this adverse though :eek::

Golly, how does that happen? That looks like a can I had sitting next to a bottle of hydrochloric acid. Nothing like HCl fumes to promote rust.

But I may change the mule steel in the knife I use in the kitchen to .... maybe even LC200N !! That oughta do it.

Some fine day I am going to work up some real handle action for the PMA11 blade.

[Nate]

Sounds like it was just lost outside for a few months and it rained a lot.

Here is the source thread from Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/knives/comment ... shaw_blur/

I've been itching to buy an LC200N mule as well, but I keep buying other stuff ahead of it...

[standy99]

Why is it that most of the aftermarket scales in the US have $35 shipping costs :eek:

In Aus so if anyone knows of a good place where the shipping isn't nearly as dear or more than the scales themselves :cool:

[Matt Deaner]

I own both of these mules.

I have used the 20cv mule extensively as my stiff blade for filleting fish. It gets used for the first cut behind the gills, and above the ribs along the spine before the fillet knife comes into play. I have been impressed with its edge holding and corrosion resistance in this role. Its geometry is also very lean. Behind the edge, it measures 0.015.

The pd1 mule has mainly been used in the kitchen and on home improvement projects. It takes an edge more easily than 20cv but doesn’t hold it as long. The geometry is more typical at about 0.022 BTE. I haven’t had the opportunity to put it to hard use to test the toughness of the steel, but I have run the edge pretty thin, and edge stability is excellent. Corrosion resistance is pretty good. I have a little patina in one place. Other than that, mine still looks like new.

[standy99]

Have used the pd1 in the kitchen for the last two weeks and all going well. Cutting everything without any issues. No patina as yet but does get wiped clean after use each time. Haven't touched it up as yet as I am seeing how long it lasts on factory edge.

Small blade takes a bit of getting used to as I am used to butchers knives.

Will be interesting to test several steels in this way over time.

[standy99]

Mule 27 worked well and has had several months with a few sharpens. Found it easy to sharpen and held up good with daily steeling before use. ( ex butcher so always steel knives ) Went just over 2 months from new before sharpening and recieved another sharpen 6 weeks later only because was going away for work and wanted to leave it sharp for the boss
Quick steel and still sharp.
Slight patina but wash and dry knives religiously after use.

Found it a tough knife and point came in handy more than anything on these style of knives.

Will try the Mule 23 now for comparison

[standy99]

After the first slight build up of rust between the Handle and blade the felt sprayed heavily with inox between blade and Handle stopped any issue from that point on. Was food grade inox used.

[The Meat man]

Thanks for sharing your experiences standy99! I'm interested in this thread because I have just acquired a PD#1 Mule myself.

We've been very busy lately (just got back from a trip) so I haven't had an opportunity to put handles on, or get a sheath made. I'm thinking about making the handle slabs out of Osage Orange wood, which is an extremely strong, tough, rot-resistant and dense yellowish-orange wood. There's tons of it around locally. It makes for some very hot-burning firewood too.

I could also scan the knife at work and draw up a set of handle scales, and laser cut them out of stainless steel or 6061 aluminum. That would be much quicker and probably more durable, but of course it wouldn't have the warmth or appeal of wood.

Anyway, the knife came very sharp out of the box and I can't wait to start putting it through some hard use. I like the design. It looks like it would make a good EDC fixed blade for me.