Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

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Traditional.Sharpening
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#41

Post by Traditional.Sharpening »

tcarltonw wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:29 pm
Bolster wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2023 12:14 am
bleasure wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:39 pm
Bolster wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:28 pm
A fun graphic with PM T15 making an appearance (which also shows why PM M4 is such a good knife steel):
do you know what "red hardness" represents on that graph? idk the term, but these are interesting data

I think it means hardness at high temperature, as for a metal cutting bit. Of no interest for a pocket knife blade, unless you are in ****.
I wonder if it will enable it to be sharpened by belt grinder with less threat of overheating....

Unlikely to prevent damage at the very apex since it can reach in the realm of 2000 F at such a small cross section but potentially farther back from there it will be an improvement.
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Josh Crutchley
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#42

Post by Josh Crutchley »

kennbr34 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:42 am
It's interesting to me that given how similar T15 and Z-Max are, that Z-Max is so much higher on Larrin's edge retention chart. Given their composition and micrographs, it seems like their carbide content is pretty similar...
Z-max is probably closer to Maxamet than T15. The carbon content effects how much carbide forms.

Maxamet 22% carbide 2.15% carbon
Z-max. 20% carbide 2.0% carbon
T-15. 17% carbide 1.6% carbon

Z-max also has a large moly addition that would contribute to a higher carbide %.
Last edited by Josh Crutchley on Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#43

Post by kennbr34 »

Josh Crutchley wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:44 pm
kennbr34 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:42 am
It's interesting to me that given how similar T15 and Z-Max are, that Z-Max is so much higher on Larrin's edge retention chart. Given their composition and micrographs, it seems like their carbide content is pretty similar...
Z-max is probably closer to Maxamet than T15. The carbon content effects how much carbide forms.

Maxamet 2.15
Z-max. 2.0
T-15. 1.5-1.6
That would make sense, but just going by the appearance of the micrographs since there's no figured available, it seems like they have the same amount of carbide. If anything T15 appears to have a little more. Yet Z-Max is wayyy higher in the CATRA test.
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#44

Post by Josh Crutchley »

kennbr34 wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:01 pm

That would make sense, but just going by the appearance of the micrographs since there's no figured available, it seems like they have the same amount of carbide. If anything T15 appears to have a little more. Yet Z-Max is wayyy higher in the CATRA test.

Yeah I think Z-max and Maxamet score higher than predicted by the formula. The numbers for carbide volume on Knife Steel Nerds are all over the place. That makes it hard to use the formula when you're not sure what numbers to use.

It's also possible T15 could score higher with an optimized HT. Rex-121 jumped up the Catra chart when it was retested with a more blade friendly HT. Z-max also jumped up some when comparing the newer charts to the old ones.

Something else I just noticed, Maxamet was predicted to come in below S125V in the last chart.
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#45

Post by Bolster »

Joe Suarez wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:31 am
In terms of its performance as a blade steel, T15 is relatively uncommon, but some knife makers have experimented with it. One of the benefits of T15 is its high wear resistance, which means it should hold an edge well. However, it may not be as tough as some other steels, which could make it more prone to chipping or breaking under heavy use.

Overall, T15 could make a good blade steel for certain applications, but as with any steel, its performance will depend on the heat treatment and other factors such as edge geometry and use. If you are interested in a knife made from T15 steel, it would be best to research specific models and their reviews to get a sense of how it performs in practice.

Is that a human post? Sounds like a chat-bot post, the way it summarizes and generalizes conventional wisdom in a pedagogic manner. If real, then: Welcome Joe Suarez.
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#46

Post by kennbr34 »

Josh Crutchley wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:20 am
kennbr34 wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:01 pm

That would make sense, but just going by the appearance of the micrographs since there's no figured available, it seems like they have the same amount of carbide. If anything T15 appears to have a little more. Yet Z-Max is wayyy higher in the CATRA test.

Yeah I think Z-max and Maxamet score higher than predicted by the formula. The numbers for carbide volume on Knife Steel Nerds are all over the place. That makes it hard to use the formula when you're not sure what numbers to use.

It's also possible T15 could score higher with an optimized HT. Rex-121 jumped up the Catra chart when it was retested with a more blade friendly HT. Z-max also jumped up some when comparing the newer charts to the old ones.

Something else I just noticed, Maxamet was predicted to come in below S125V in the last chart.
Hmm never noticed that with S125V being predicted over Maxamet before.

After reading around Larrin's blog more, it seems his data set is pretty limited when it comes to molybdenum/tungsten carbide based alloys, so it seems like the equation might not very accurately predict the performance of Mo/W carbide alloys vs Vanadium carbide alloys ad well as it predicts Vanadium carbides vs Vanadium carbides.

I wonder if there's a way to ping him to weigh in with an opinion? It would be cool if he could tell us specifically what the carbide percentages are too.

In any case... Darn. I was really hoping based on the compositional similarities that T15 would hang around up there with Z-Max for a second. My excitement kinda fell off when I saw Larrin's numbers.

It seems like it could make decent competition for 10V if it has better corrosion resistance and grindability. I wonder if it could be a little cheaper to produce but offer similar performance if it was easier on the grinders.

I guess I am just struggling to see what the advantage to this steel would be or if it's just an opportunity to try a different flavor
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#47

Post by tcarltonw »

Bolster wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:34 pm
Joe Suarez wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:31 am
In terms of its performance as a blade steel, T15 is relatively uncommon, but some knife makers have experimented with it. One of the benefits of T15 is its high wear resistance, which means it should hold an edge well. However, it may not be as tough as some other steels, which could make it more prone to chipping or breaking under heavy use.

Overall, T15 could make a good blade steel for certain applications, but as with any steel, its performance will depend on the heat treatment and other factors such as edge geometry and use. If you are interested in a knife made from T15 steel, it would be best to research specific models and their reviews to get a sense of how it performs in practice.

Is that a human post? Sounds like a chat-bot post, the way it summarizes and generalizes conventional wisdom in a pedagogic manner. If real, then: Welcome Joe Suarez.
First Chatgpt post on the Mule forum??
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#48

Post by Bolster »

tcarltonw wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:27 am
Bolster wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:34 pm
Joe Suarez wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:31 am
In terms of its performance as a blade steel, T15 is relatively uncommon, but some knife makers have experimented with it. One of the benefits of T15 is its high wear resistance, which means it should hold an edge well. However, it may not be as tough as some other steels, which could make it more prone to chipping or breaking under heavy use.

Overall, T15 could make a good blade steel for certain applications, but as with any steel, its performance will depend on the heat treatment and other factors such as edge geometry and use. If you are interested in a knife made from T15 steel, it would be best to research specific models and their reviews to get a sense of how it performs in practice.

Is that a human post? Sounds like a chat-bot post, the way it summarizes and generalizes conventional wisdom in a pedagogic manner. If real, then: Welcome Joe Suarez.
First Chatgpt post on the Mule forum??

One thing I've noticed about chat-bot "conversations" is that they often sound written by Captain Obvious, a sort of overall average of conventional wisdom, often without a particular individual perspective of its own.

The pedantic bit about what a lack of toughness means might be OK for explaining to 7th graders, but seems oddly misplaced here.

Apologies to Joe if real, but a general summary post such as this for a first post is unusual. I'm half expecting Fireman to pop in and have a good laugh at us.
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#49

Post by Bolster »

I asked Chat GPT if T15 was a good steel to use in a knife, and I got a bland, sophomoric response:

T15 is considered a high-performance steel and is often used in high-end knives due to its excellent toughness, corrosion resistance, and edge retention. It is a premium steel that is challenging to forge and process but offers the durability and sharpness required for high-performance knives. Ultimately, whether T15 is a good steel in a knife depends on the user's specific needs and preferences.

Excellent toughness at 8 lbs? Excellent CR with 4% Chromium? And then the typical chat bot caveat at the end: "it depends."
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#50

Post by Mushroom »

Bolster wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:34 pm
Joe Suarez wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:31 am
In terms of its performance as a blade steel, T15 is relatively uncommon, but some knife makers have experimented with it. One of the benefits of T15 is its high wear resistance, which means it should hold an edge well. However, it may not be as tough as some other steels, which could make it more prone to chipping or breaking under heavy use.

Overall, T15 could make a good blade steel for certain applications, but as with any steel, its performance will depend on the heat treatment and other factors such as edge geometry and use. If you are interested in a knife made from T15 steel, it would be best to research specific models and their reviews to get a sense of how it performs in practice.

Is that a human post? Sounds like a chat-bot post, the way it summarizes and generalizes conventional wisdom in a pedagogic manner. If real, then: Welcome Joe Suarez.
Yep, that’s a bot.
-Nick :bug-red
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#51

Post by p_atrick »

Bolster wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:51 am
I asked Chat GPT if...

Can you access the temperature in the ChatGPT interface? The temperature is an ML term that corresponds to creativity in the response. I believe values for the temperature range from 0 (boring) to 1 (most creative or "random"). Might be interesting to see how the responses vary by changing this input.
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#52

Post by RustyIron »

Bolster wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:34 pm
Is that a human post? Sounds like a chat-bot post, the way it summarizes and generalizes conventional wisdom in a pedagogic manner.
Dude! That's hilarious. I tried using ChatGPT instead of my usual Google or DDG searches, and found its broad generalizations to be utterly useless. I don't know what all the fuss is about or how this newfangled technology is going to change the world.
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#53

Post by sal »

So, I don't think a bot signed on to our forum? This means that a person signed on to our forum and is using AI to answer and then posting what AI says? Will that person respond? Or does the bot respond to posts here? If so, how? What is the mechanism for this to occur?

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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#54

Post by Bolster »

^ Good questions. I guess we'll find out (provided Joe is a bot, or quoting a bot). Brave new world.

One thing for sure: We're all going to have to sharpen our ability to detect bot-ism. (Bot-u-lism?)

I find bot answers to be pedantic/didactic/school-marmy and often non-committal (compared to the usual highly opinionated post), but certainly that will improve with time. Neither have I seen a bot answer that incorporates humor or wit. They don't do snark or sarcasm (that I've seen).

FWIW, writer.com thinks Joe is 76% likely to be human, but cautions Joe to "edit your text until there's less detectable AI content."
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#55

Post by kennbr34 »

I managed to make it write this...
While I personally prefer stainless steels in knives, if one were to choose CPM T15 steel for a blade, it is likely that Spyderco would produce a superior knife compared to other companies. Spyderco is known for their exceptional craftsmanship and attention to detail, and they have a reputation for producing knives with high-quality steel and excellent performance. Given their expertise and experience, it is reasonable to assume that they would be able to produce a knife with CPM T15 steel that would maximize its strengths while mitigating its weaknesses.
I first asked it...
Please summarize the use and advantages of CPM T15 steel in knives, but in an opinionated way influenced by a preference for stainless steels
And then refined it...
Write your first response over again, but this time imply that Spyderco would likely do a better job at producing a knife in this steel than any other company
Now if I ask...
Can you modify the grammar and prose of your last post to appear to be a user of a social media site or forum without a very extensive vocabulary?
I get...
Personally, I like stainless steel in knives, but if you want CPM T15 steel in your blade, Spyderco might be the way to go. They make really good knives and are known for paying attention to the details. They know how to use good steel and make knives that perform well. So it makes sense that they could make a knife with CPM T15 steel that's really strong and doesn't have too many weak spots.
And another try with the same prompt...
I think if someone wants a knife made of CPM T15 steel, Spyderco would be the best choice. They're really good at making knives and they pay attention to every detail. I've heard they use high-quality steel and their knives perform really well. So, it makes sense that they could make a knife with CPM T15 steel that would be strong where it needs to be and not weak where it shouldn't.
I let it regenerate based on the last parameters two more times and got...
If ya wanna knife with CPM T15 steel, Spyderco is probs the best bet. They make really good knives and are known for paying attention to details. So if ya want the most from CPM T15 steel, they'd be able to get the most out of it.
So it's pretty flexible and easy to make it not very botlike.


But anyway, just slightly off topic lol
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#56

Post by Bolster »

kennbr34 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:10 pm
So it's pretty flexible and easy to make it not very botlike.

Yeah! That was a good demonstration, and I stand corrected, regards several of the "tells" I use to identify a bot. The "I heard..." would have fooled me (previously, ahem). I would have difficulty identifying several of those as bot-written if they were on the BF forum. Here, they'd clearly be out of place.

I think the concern is that the Forum might start to fill with auto-botted tripe. I've heard that the bot-meisters are considering water-marking botted text somehow.

Your initial text gets only a 4% human over at writer.com, but your final text got 97% human-generated, so you last one fooled the detectors, too.

Also O/T. Apologies.
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#57

Post by SteveMidwest »

Putting the Chat Bot comments aside for a moment, and back on topic :smiling-halo
(I vote yes, it was a Bot answer from a real person, who really didn't know what to jump in with, on their first comment here on the Forum:)

This T15 has GOT to be just about to drop, right?

Should we think that we are waiting for the M398 to sell out first?

I did my part. I bought three of those! :bug-red-white

And could Stock now be very low, on the M398? I just now put 99 of them in my Cart, and an error told me that I could only buy 4.
:smiling-cheeks
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#58

Post by Bolster »

SteveMidwest wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:20 pm
This T15 has GOT to be just about to drop, right?

You would think! Man, it's been a long wait.

It hadn't occurred to me that Spyderco might wait for a previous model to sell out before producing the next. That brings a little raincloud into my knife life.
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#59

Post by legOFwhat? »

"We have 143 Mule Team M398(s) in our inventory. You may only order 143"

Count is getting lower.
-Larry
Hebrews 13:6 So we may boldly say: “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”
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Re: Anticipation of: CPM REX T15 in MT34

#60

Post by SteveMidwest »

Bolster wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:00 pm
SteveMidwest wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:20 pm
This T15 has GOT to be just about to drop, right?

You would think! Man, it's been a long wait.

It hadn't occurred to me that Spyderco might wait for a previous model to sell out before producing the next. That brings a little raincloud into my knife life.

I suspect that the T15 Mules are already made. My guess is they are waiting for a slightly slower moment in Golden to box them up individually, and then release them. After all, they have to do all of these single box fulfillment themselves, on these Mules. That, and I also think they are waiting on the M398 to dwindle down to near zero.
:bug-red-white
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