MT28P2 - CPM SPY27 Mule Team Release!

[jwbnyc]

Wrong thread.

[sal]

Hi Tom,

Yes, they do. I have in my hand a MT2 in a leather sheath, nice fit as well.

sal

[RamZar]

The Boltaron Sheath (MTSH2) for Mule Team 2 SPY27 (MT28P2) is back in stock.

[Bolster]

Sweet blade. Despite the photos, the acute tip still took me by surprise; I have to be more careful around this Mule because that needly tip can kick! It's also a tad lighter than the regular mules at 2.62 oz (cf 2.75 oz). Since the SS mule is replaceable, I've no qualms about modifying it into a lightweight backpacking blade, and will likely whittle down the profile of the handle a bit.

[Cl1ff]

Hi Tom,

Yes, they do. I have in my hand a MT2 in a leather sheath, nice fit as well.

sal

I’m now also holding a scaleless MT2 in a leather sheath! Very happy with both and the 2023 Product Guide that came with them!

Excited to get using and testing it, while looking forward to a serrated MT2.

Thank you, Sal, and all of the others at Spyderco who make these knives possible.

[Connman]

Sweet blade. Despite the photos, the acute tip still took me by surprise; I have to be more careful around this Mule because that needly tip can kick! It's also a tad lighter than the regular mules at 2.62 oz (cf 2.75 oz). Since the SS mule is replaceable, I've no qualms about modifying it into a lightweight backpacking blade, and will likely whittle down the profile of the handle a bit.

Reminds me so much of PM 2 , like having a fixed blade version.

[CLOK]

Got mine set up today and started using it. Pretty sharp out of the box and looking forward to carrying it a lot. I am surprised about the size differences in sheaths from the MTSH2 and MTSH. Not a complaint, just a noticeable difference.

[chkn]

Do I want a SPY27 Mule, even if it's not the coolest version? Yes. Getting the OG SPY27 Mule is hard at this point.

The Mule Team is supposed to be a standard configuration that allows people to compare steels with a minimum of variables. Changing the shape of the blade goes against that philosophy in my opinion, even if technically the only change is the spine. I would have been much more interested with a different steel in the original configuration as the "production" mule, even something as "pedestrian" as VG-10, S30V, etc since then I wouldn't have to worry about swapping sheaths if I change knives, I could just swap the knife into the Mule sheaths I already have either on my belts on work or casual clothes or strapped to my gear.

[bobartig]

The philosophy behind eliminating variables in the Mules is so that the cutting instrument is more comparable between steels. That is to say, eliminating edge geometry and blade construction variations so that performance differences relate back to the steel choice more readily. Does shaving the spine flat affect the cutting performance of a Mule? To a very small degree it affects ergos if you are placing your thumb on the spine, but I would seriously doubt that it has any measurable effect on most measures of cutting performance.

So while the uniform blade profile is key to the Mule philosophy, to some extent you are arguing style over substance. Additionally, my understanding is that the production Mule isn't part of the steel-testing family of mules anyway. It's really to provide a kit knife experience with Spyderco quality steel. If you want to make a custom fixie, you don't have to wait for the next Mule drop. I still prefer the classic profile and curved spine, but the argument that the Production Mule doesn't fit the Testing Mules' design philosophy is fairly moot, since it isn't a testing mule to begin with.

The sheath incompatibility is a bummer, and it actually stopped me cold from making a purchase for now. I will buy some SPY27 Mules soon, but I would have already gotten them and a boltaron sheath if they were backwards compatible w/ the older mules.

[TomAiello]

Got mine today! Can't wait to start building up some nice handles...

[chkn]

I would seriously doubt that it has any measurable effect on most measures of cutting performance

Agreed, but how are we to know for certain unless a comparison was made between the two? As it stands it's a variable that was needlessly introduced.

So while the uniform blade profile is key to the Mule philosophy, to some extent you are arguing style over substance.

Perhaps, but that doesn't erase the fact that altering the spine could affect the knife in ways that weren't accounted for.

Additionally, my understanding is that the production Mule isn't part of the steel-testing family of mules anyway.

And yet that's what people are going to be using it for. You even said as much earlier in the thread.

If you want to make a custom fixie, you don't have to wait for the next Mule drop.

If you want the original blade shape you would, though right now you can at least grab the M398 version while it lasts

the argument that the Production Mule doesn't fit the Testing Mules' design philosophy is fairly moot, since it isn't a testing mule to begin with.

I suppose you could argue that it is it's own thing, but more than likely most people will be getting one in order to compare to their other Mules. This is why I would have preferred the "production" Mule to have been in a different steel rather than a different shape though, because for me the shape is more important than the steel. Just airing my opinion BTW, this is not some call for Spyderco to cater to my whims.

[standy99]

This is not a testing Mule in my book.

I have a number of mules for testing and have put some nice handles on them and always get people wanting one. But these are not for sale as I make them for myself. (And due to the fact they are not readily available to re-purchase)

Now I have the chance to buy a few at a time and make knives for others. (That aren’t mule testers like myself)

Just the fact a new person to making a knife can get a knife blank of this caliber for only $60 to start a journey is awesome.

[bobartig]

Additionally, my understanding is that the production Mule isn't part of the steel-testing family of mules anyway.

And yet that's what people are going to be using it for. You even said as much earlier in the thread.

I have never suggested that the spine difference invalidates the SPY27 as a cutting point of reference against other Mules. That's what you're implying with your philosophical incompatibility. That's your position, not mine. It is entirely consistent for me to use it as a test point of the SPY27 steel against other Mules because I've never suggested it can't or shouldn't be done. I predict this cuts like a Mule, and that Spyderco has gone to great lengths to make sure it does that. And, while it is not THE MT28 SPY27 Mule, it is still its own data point of a particular composition, treated in some way, with an edge geometry that matches other Mules. Sure, there is some delta introduced because it's not THE Spy27 Mule, and like a 3% difference in thumb position. But, do you think those differences are so great that a person cannot get a useful sense of how SPY27 behaves compared to REX76 as a result? I'm going to enjoy my Mules and gather data (for my purposes anyway) and using the rest of my wits and senses to account for the delta.

I can see the highly vested Mule collector seeing this as a heretical act. The fact that there's 40 other Mules out there with such and such dimensions doesn't matter as much to me because I am new at this and I'm going to get what I can get and learn what I can. Right now, that's Rex76, M398, and soon to be SPY27 and a T15, and the SPY27 will look like awkward penguin face, but will still get time in the rotation. Oh and a ZDP-189 that supposedly has messed up heat treat, and I just kind of stare at that one.

[chkn]

I have never suggested that the spine difference invalidates the SPY27 as a cutting point of reference against other Mules.

Didn't say you did. That was to point out the dichotomy of saying this mule isn't a testing mule and multiple people, including yourself, saying that's what they're going to do with it.

[TomAiello]

Just the fact a new person to making a knife can get a knife blank of this caliber for only $60 to start a journey is awesome.

100% agree. I see this as a public service to the hobby knife making community from Spyderco.

[chkn]

I have a number of mules for testing and have put some nice handles on them and always get people wanting one. But these are not for sale as I make them for myself. (And due to the fact they are not readily available to re-purchase)

Now I have the chance to buy a few at a time and make knives for others.

I'd be interested to see which of the two blade profiles people prefer.

[Ramonade]

This is not a testing Mule in my book.

I have a number of mules for testing and have put some nice handles on them and always get people wanting one. But these are not for sale as I make them for myself. (And due to the fact they are not readily available to re-purchase)

Now I have the chance to buy a few at a time and make knives for others. (That aren’t mule testers like myself)

Just the fact a new person to making a knife can get a knife blank of this caliber for only $60 to start a journey is awesome.

That's exactly my thoughts. I started to buy several like for the Rex76 (bought 3 of them) in order to answer to the request of people interested in me making them a custom handle. This option is perfect for that !

[Josh Crutchley]

Additionally, my understanding is that the production Mule isn't part of the steel-testing family of mules anyway.

And yet that's what people are going to be using it for. You even said as much earlier in the thread.

I have never suggested that the spine difference invalidates the SPY27 as a cutting point of reference against other Mules. That's what you're implying with your philosophical incompatibility. That's your position, not mine. It is entirely consistent for me to use it as a test point of the SPY27 steel against other Mules because I've never suggested it can't or shouldn't be done. I predict this cuts like a Mule, and that Spyderco has gone to great lengths to make sure it does that. And, while it is not THE MT28 SPY27 Mule, it is still its own data point of a particular composition, treated in some way, with an edge geometry that matches other Mules. Sure, there is some delta introduced because it's not THE Spy27 Mule, and like a 3% difference in thumb position. But, do you think those differences are so great that a person cannot get a useful sense of how SPY27 behaves compared to REX76 as a result? I'm going to enjoy my Mules and gather data (for my purposes anyway) and using the rest of my wits and senses to account for the delta.

I can see the highly vested Mule collector seeing this as a heretical act. The fact that there's 40 other Mules out there with such and such dimensions doesn't matter as much to me because I am new at this and I'm going to get what I can get and learn what I can. Right now, that's Rex76, M398, and soon to be SPY27 and a T15, and the SPY27 will look like awkward penguin face, but will still get time in the rotation. Oh and a ZDP-189 that supposedly has messed up heat treat, and I just kind of stare at that one.

If the BTE is similar to the MT1 I don't see why you couldn't compare the edges. I like to see how sharp I can get different steels and then cut bamboo to see how/when the edge fails, if it does. These newer steels are too wear resistant for cardboard cutting comparisons unless you want to cut miles of it. I plan on getting one just to modify since I've already tested SPY27 in a Native 5 LW.

[chkn]

I see this as a public service to the hobby knife making community from Spyderco.

I'd argue if that was the case then keeping the original shape would make more sense, since if people preferred the straight spine they could grind/shave it down. As it stands the production mule forces you to accept a blade profile that none of the previous mules have had. Did people ask for a different blade profile? I never saw it. As it stands the production mule is the only one that unmistakably differs from all other previous mules released which arguably defeats the purpose of a MT knife being much more readily available if the buyer wanted a "standard" mule.

[Connman]

I have a number of mules for testing and have put some nice handles on them and always get people wanting one. But these are not for sale as I make them for myself. (And due to the fact they are not readily available to re-purchase)

Now I have the chance to buy a few at a time and make knives for others.

I'd be interested to see which of the two blade profiles people prefer.

Just by comparing from photos I prefer the leaf verses the straight spine. One I get a straight spine in hand that may change. Not currently rushing out to get one as have plenty of other mules to play with. Will probably pick up a pair when T15 become available to combine order. If I don’t like will pass onto my son and nephew. My nephew expressed immediate interest in the flat spine and my sons tastes in knives is a little more stabby profile than mine so he would like. He’s into 3D printing so I trade scales for mules . He’s done a couple of Josh style scales for me already so I already owe him.