The origin of Sal’s Mule Team Project

[JRinFL]

Many don’t know the history of the Mule Team project so I thought it would be good to find the very post that Sal mentioned it publicly. Reading through the comments in the thread made me chuckle. We as Spyderco fans have not really changed much over the years.

I hope this helps!

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/ste ... ns.445613/
(If someone can find a similar announcement post on this forum, please post it. Thanks)

Text of the first post by Sal Glesser.


Jan 6, 2007
#1
I would like to share a potential project with you.

The "plan" was to use a fixed blade pattern for learning about steels. The design is a warncliffe, 3" - 4" blade length. Blade and handle one piece of steel. Essentially a steel "mule" like we use in our testing, but with a handle.

I spoke with Brian Huegel (Country knives) about this a couple of years ago. He has a very good understanding of knives and the industry. He said that everyone will want a handle that is more than just the steel and probably a sheath. A good point. I don't want to get involved in trying to make custom handles of sheaths for the "mules".

I thought of doing this several years ago but the idea was put on hold because of the handle / sheath issue.

I've thought about it quite a bit and I would like to present the idea to the steel junky's.

A standard fixed blade pattern, probably a warncliffe, 3 - 4" in blade length. Handle and blade would be one piece of steel. Perhaps one of you could make aftermarket handles / sheaths where desired. Our sheath maker could probably be persuaded to make a standard Boltaron sheath.

I would work with the foundries to get material. We would make a pre-planned quantity, maybe 300 - 500. All full flat grind. We coud probably do 1 - 4 runs per year. Each "Mule Team" knife would be engraved with the type of steel.

We would determine steel to test and Rc on the forum before making each run. We would cut them out, heat treat, tumble (cheap), grind, sharpen and ship. Some steels have to be ground before heat treat. No handle, no sheath. All would have to be pre-sold (I don't want to inventory.) which means some of the group would purchase more than one to be able to have some available for those not signed up. We would keep the cost as low as is possible. Costs would vary depending on mfg costs.

We would begin with steels we're already using, eg: VG-10, S30V, ZDP, etc. to get the ball rolling. Then steel selction would come from you.

We could maybe do Rc, CATRA and Charpy tests, but leave the rest to you.

Any interest?

sal

His follow up post responding to the a question by the late Cliff Stamp:

Assuming there was sufficient interest, I guess the goal would be to be able to provide a "piece of the stuff" in a fairly consistent format, at an affordable cost. Same thickness, same grind, same tumbling, same edge angle.

We would shoot for an Rc on which the afi's agreed. CATRA and/or Charpy might give some basis for comparison from lab testing. Real world use would be a personal experience. A topic of conversation.

sal

[Burningcort]

Now that is pretty cool to know.

[sal]

Hi Jim,

Thanx for doing that. Funny, I was just thinking about the beginning and the more recent interest. Almost 14 years ago.

The Mule Team has turned into an interesting project. Now we just have to sort out the quantities so we have 10%-20% more that immediate demand. We do have a few more in-the-works and we're guessing quantities. Some take longer than others, hence the numbers not being consecutive.

With all of the new blade steels, and older blade steels, now available, Mule team variety could be strong?

sal

[Fireman]

Sal, will you consider re-issue of popular ones?

[Evil D]

Seems like the only part that's really missing from the original idea is forum/customer input on hardness and such. I actually think this is best left up to Spyderco and/or at the least they should run the mules at the same hardness they plan to make folders in so everything is consistent, unless they find that the hardness needs to change after trying out the mules. But then, do the mules REALLY provide the feedback on what the end result hardness will be? It doesn't seem to be working that way now especially when a lot of steels actually come out in folders long before a mule is even available.

[Ramonade]

Having a larger repertoire would mean more comparisons from the mule team !

[standy99]

Only problem is the more you get the less time you use each one.

At 7 now it’s a backlog getting scales on the last 2 Zmax/wear ones and now I think Magnacut will jump ahead of the line.

Do have a new material to throw on the Magnacut until I reveal….

[cjk]

So the the wharncliffe part of the idea didn't seem to come to fruition. Good thing you have Michael Janich around these days to help keep the wharncliffes coming! :)

[Evil D]

So the the wharncliffe part of the idea didn't seem to come to fruition. Good thing you have Michael Janich around these days to help keep the wharncliffes coming! :)

As much as I love wharnies I think the current blade shape was a smart choice, it makes the blade more versatile and allows people to use them for more tasks like skinning a deer for example.

[cjk]

As much as I love wharnies I think the current blade shape was a smart choice, it makes the blade more versatile and allows people to use them for more tasks like skinning a deer for example.

I do agree with you. I am a fan of wharncliffe blades, so I was amused by the wharncliffe mention with regard to the mules.

[Evil D]

As much as I love wharnies I think the current blade shape was a smart choice, it makes the blade more versatile and allows people to use them for more tasks like skinning a deer for example.

I do agree with you. I am a fan of wharncliffe blades, so I was amused by the wharncliffe mention with regard to the mules.

I was actually surprised to read that. I wonder if Sal was thinking it would just be less expensive to produce or if he had something else in mind?

[RustyIron]

It's interesting to see how Sal's original intention has morphed into something different. Or maybe he wisely suspected the result all along.

After all, there are probably only several among us who can actually perform real qualitative testing on any of the samples.

There are a greater number, although not many, who perform pseudo-scientific testing: sharpening, slicing cardboard, etc.

The rest of us are completely random: "By golly this blade sure sliced my sushi nicely after I sliced out the grizzly bear gallbladder and left it in the dirt overnight." Although unscientific, our observations are still legitimate and can be educational.

For me personally, the Mule gives me the opportunity to play in the shop. I don't want to be a REAL knifemaker, but it's fun sometimes to carve out some scales and assemble my own knife. Putting that much effort into a blade made from junk steel is a waste of labor, but if I can start off with a NICE blade, then I'll end up with something that is worth keeping and is a joy to use. Making stuff makes me happy. Using a nice knives makes me happy. If I get to make the knife and then use it, it's something so good that only another tool geek can understand.

[ladybug93]

i still don't have one in hand yet, but looking at them online, it seems to be very close to a manix, which makes me pretty happy. i love the blade shape and angle of the manix and have hoped for a fixed blade version in the past. my mule is going to get a lot of love.

[TkoK83Spy]

The only part that's sad is a lot of these knives, especially from this Magnacut release will likely be kept in a safe or don some very nice custom handle scales, a mirror polished edge and just be shown on Instagram. Making these folks kind of a waste and detriment to the Mule Team's actual intentions. Part of why I've always thought the release should have only been 1 per customer. That many more opportunities for someone excited to use the knife instead of someone playing dress up with one, and flipping the other, or keeping it as "a backup"

[TkoK83Spy]

i still don't have one in hand yet, but looking at them online, it seems to be very close to a manix, which makes me pretty happy. i love the blade shape and angle of the manix and have hoped for a fixed blade version in the past. my mule is going to get a lot of love.

I'll try to find it, I did a comparison of the one I have along with a Shaman and Manix. It really is very Manix like, but a pretty good amount of extra cutting edge, but the overall package is quite similar in size.

Edit - Here is the page I posted a few photos.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60127&hilit=larry%2 ... tart=25660

[ladybug93]

i still don't have one in hand yet, but looking at them online, it seems to be very close to a manix, which makes me pretty happy. i love the blade shape and angle of the manix and have hoped for a fixed blade version in the past. my mule is going to get a lot of love.

I'll try to find it, I did a comparison of the one I have along with a Shaman and Manix. It really is very Manix like, but a pretty good amount of extra cutting edge, but the overall package is quite similar in size.

Edit - Here is the page I posted a few photos.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60127&hilit=larry%2 ... tart=25660

sweet! seems to have a little less of a negative blade angle than the manix, but looks like a really great general use shape. obviously that makes a lot of sense, given the purpose. i can't wait to get mine.

[yablanowitz]

As much as I love wharnies I think the current blade shape was a smart choice, it makes the blade more versatile and allows people to use them for more tasks like skinning a deer for example.

I do agree with you. I am a fan of wharncliffe blades, so I was amused by the wharncliffe mention with regard to the mules.

I was actually surprised to read that. I wonder if Sal was thinking it would just be less expensive to produce or if he had something else in mind?

The actual mules used for testing (such as charpy tests) are straight-edged blades with stub tangs made to fit the testing fixture. That was the seed of the idea for the whole program, and what we see is what grew from that seed.

[N. Brian Huegel]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57171&p=808382&hilit=mule#p808382

This project has finally to fruition as Spyderco now has handles and sheaths available.

[sal]

As mentioned,

I decided that the straight edge, while good for lab testing, would not be as versatile as the "leaf" shape that I've been using for years. The actual shape is probably 40,000 years old.

Thanx Brian for the post. FYI, Brian is the owner of Country knives and is my "Go to guy" for knife history and general consulting.

sal

[archangel]

Wait Sal,

You did NOT invent the leaf shape for blades??