Is BD1 an okay steel

Discuss Spyderco's byrd knives.
99Dirk
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Is BD1 an okay steel

#1

Post by 99Dirk »

So I've been hesitant in purchasing a Byrd knife. My reason being, budget knives are okay for either risky endeavors (high chance of losing) or beaters.

Buck knives have generally been my go to for cheap readily available options in the risky (traveling checked luggage, etc.) And CS have had their place for abusive use (shop knife - tasks that are likely going to get gooey stuff on blade, or digging into abrasive materials, etc).

I've been considering the Raven2 until I see it was in BD1 - I have a Manix2 LW in BD1 (not BD1N) and haven't been happy with it's performance at all.

Anyone have a reason in why I sould give BD1 another go, out wait for a different option in the budget line?

D.
TomAiello
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#2

Post by TomAiello »

What is it that you don't like about the BD1 manix? Edge holding?
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Ramonade
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#3

Post by Ramonade »

Well if you're considering Byrd knives, the BD1 is IMO a better performer than 8Cr13MoV.
:respect In the collection :respect : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.

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99Dirk
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#4

Post by 99Dirk »

TomAiello wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:59 pm
What is it that you don't like about the BD1 manix? Edge holding?
It's hard to say, when I sharpened the Manix (have tried: Sharpmaker, Work Sharp - normal and with edge grinding attachment, Jende bench system, & freehand) with the precision systems I could get a micro wire-burr at the the apex edge and strop. My normal technique for guided systems. Or on bench stones going for more of a working toothy edge (1000-1200 grit). Angles tried: 17°-23°.

The edge performs similar to my large SAKs (111mm) both in feel and longevity. Since I carry a 111mm SAK as an backup in my daily comp bag, and have one ready to go in my shop. These are my current favorite for multitools - when paired with 6" Nipex Cobra Jaws pliers. I don't see the benifit of a dedicated side blade in BD1.

14C or D2 would be a step up, I've read Sal's comments on Chinese steels and it will be interesting to see if they go to a better performer in the Byrd line.

It's silly I know being this picky on budget models when I'll spend 2-3x or more on more expensive options just to keep them in a drawer or give away if I don't end up liking them.

The BD1 just really put me off on the Manix. Think I spent around $100+, should have researched it better. Was wanting to see if I would like the feel better then the PM2s - answer was no.
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#5

Post by TomAiello »

I've found BD1n to be a step up (and that's what the model uses now), but I own two BD1 manii and they are my first choice in a 'beater' knife.

It's a bummer to get turned off a whole model because of the low-end experiences you had with the low end variant. There are lots of great iterations of the manix out there. I can't wait for a Magnacut Manix Salt. ;)
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#6

Post by z1r »

Ramonade wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:28 am
Well if you're considering Byrd knives, the BD1 is IMO a better performer than 8Cr13MoV.
Agreed, but 8Cr13MoV is easier to sharpen if that matters.

This reminds me that I was searching for a Raven2 last year and never found one. Hmm.
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Ramonade
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#7

Post by Ramonade »

I know of one place to find it new, but it's in Europe.
Might not be a good deal if they even ship to the States !
:respect In the collection :respect : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.

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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#8

Post by z1r »

Ramonade wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:30 am
I know of one place to find it new, but it's in Europe.
Might not be a good deal if they even ship to the States !
Thanks, appreciate the assist but I will just drive over to the SFO soon, I'm sure they'll have one.
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#9

Post by Ramonade »

Oh, they still are available ? My bad then, I was sure it was an hard one to get nowadays. Nice then.
:respect In the collection :respect : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.

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vivi
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#10

Post by vivi »

99Dirk wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:51 am
TomAiello wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:59 pm
What is it that you don't like about the BD1 manix? Edge holding?
It's hard to say, when I sharpened the Manix (have tried: Sharpmaker, Work Sharp - normal and with edge grinding attachment, Jende bench system, & freehand) with the precision systems I could get a micro wire-burr at the the apex edge and strop. My normal technique for guided systems. Or on bench stones going for more of a working toothy edge (1000-1200 grit). Angles tried: 17°-23°.

The edge performs similar to my large SAKs (111mm) both in feel and longevity. Since I carry a 111mm SAK as an backup in my daily comp bag, and have one ready to go in my shop. These are my current favorite for multitools - when paired with 6" Nipex Cobra Jaws pliers. I don't see the benifit of a dedicated side blade in BD1.

14C or D2 would be a step up, I've read Sal's comments on Chinese steels and it will be interesting to see if they go to a better performer in the Byrd line.

It's silly I know being this picky on budget models when I'll spend 2-3x or more on more expensive options just to keep them in a drawer or give away if I don't end up liking them.

The BD1 just really put me off on the Manix. Think I spent around $100+, should have researched it better. Was wanting to see if I would like the feel better then the PM2s - answer was no.
My BD1 knives have held an edge much better than my Victorinox knives. I use a Vic chef knife every day at work so I'm very familiar with their level of performance.

I like BD1 enough as a budget steel that I specifically seek it out at times. It's one reason I picked up a few Voyagers when they used that steel, and one reason I bought a Ronin 2.

I sharpen my BD1 knives in the 12-15 degree range. I've tried grits from 200-8,000 with the steel. I am happiest with the performance I get with a ~300 grit diamond stone followed by 40 micron diamond strop only one time per side.

Lower edge retention steels like BD1 and Victorinox steel greatly benefit from a very toothy edge as once the apex dulls past the point of scrape shaving the microserrations allow the knife to continue having excellent slicing performance.

Here's a thread on low grit sharpening that goes into more detail: viewtopic.php?t=85096

At the obtuse angles and high polish you are using edge retention will be very low with this class of steel. I would try dropping to 15 degrees per side and going no higher than 300-600 grit and see if performance improves before writing off the steel.

BD1 has a lot goijg for it with few downsides - very cheap, very corrosion resistant, among the quickest sharpening steels on the market, pretty tough. Only downside is edge retention and it isn't as hard / resistant to rolling and general deformation compared to stuff like Rex45, K390, ZDP189 etc.
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99Dirk
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#11

Post by 99Dirk »

z1r wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:19 am
Ramonade wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:28 am
Well if you're considering Byrd knives, the BD1 is IMO a better performer than 8Cr13MoV.
Agreed, but 8Cr13MoV is easier to sharpen if that matters.

This reminds me that I was searching for a Raven2 last year and never found one. Hmm.
You can get one from Spyderco online: https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... rade-2/925

D
99Dirk
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#12

Post by 99Dirk »

vivi wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:19 am
At the obtuse angles and high polish you are using edge retention will be very low with this class of steel. I would try dropping to 15 degrees per side and going no higher than 300-600 grit and see if performance improves before writing off the steel.

BD1 has a lot goijg for it with few downsides - very cheap, very corrosion resistant, among the quickest sharpening steels on the market, pretty tough. Only downside is edge retention and it isn't as hard / resistant to rolling and general deformation compared to stuff like Rex45, K390, ZDP189 etc.
Alright knew I came to the right place thanks vivi! I'll be pulling out the Manic this weekend and re-profile to a more acute toothy angle and give it another go.

D .
T.J.
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#13

Post by T.J. »

A BD1N Manix was my first Spyderco and it lead to my knife obsession. It’s the one knife I’ll never part with. So, yes, I really like it
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#14

Post by bjz »

It’s not a manix/raven or bd1, but I grabbed an efficient to bring to the food bank today to volunteer…it had a pretty fresh ~16-17 deg edge from a 400grit Diamond plate with just a few passes per side on SM brown rods in the 40 deg slots. It ate up to a of packing tap, plastic wrap cardboard, glanced off steel shelving, frp carts and fell on the concrete floor. Somewhere in there I managed to catch my finger and it cut so clean it never bled and I didn’t even notice. When I got home the only thing keeping it from sailing through a bunch of envelopes from the mailbox was all the adhesive I did t bother to clean up.

There is definitely a lot more to be said about edge prep versus steel “quality”!!! I for one, kind of regret letting a bd1 manix go! I really like bd1n, but for work purposes, I think a manix lw in bd1 would be great!! (The manix was my first larger knife and at the time it just didn’t feel right so it went straight back I. The mail…I’m kicking myself!)

All this being said, I ended up choosing an SE tenacious lw vs the raven! Way more edge length, it felt better in hand and was lighter. If you are having reservations about a raven in bd1, you could spend a bit more and get a tenacious in s35vn or even 8cr and be in great shape!
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Wartstein
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#15

Post by Wartstein »

TomAiello wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:01 am
I've found BD1n to be a step up (and that's what the model uses now), but I own two BD1 manii and they are my first choice in a 'beater' knife.

It's a bummer to get turned off a whole model because of the low-end experiences you had with the low end variant. There are lots of great iterations of the manix out there. I can't wait for a Magnacut Manix Salt. ;)

That´s what I found too - and at my (rather low) level of steel experience it says something that I actually can tell a difference between BD1 and BD1N. And I am sure I do.
I think I even started a thread back when I got my BD1N Manix (had a BD1 before), cause I found the steel behaved a lot better than it "should" have..

That said: It is not that BD1 (without "N") would be bad by any means. But, as said: For me it is not like BD1N or VG10 or the like
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
99Dirk
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#16

Post by 99Dirk »

vivi wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:19 am
99Dirk wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:51 am
TomAiello wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:59 pm
What is it that you don't like about the BD1 manix? Edge holding?
It's hard to say, when I sharpened the Manix (have tried: Sharpmaker, Work Sharp - normal and with edge grinding attachment, Jende bench system, & freehand) with the precision systems I could get a micro wire-burr at the the apex edge and strop. My normal technique for guided systems. Or on bench stones going for more of a working toothy edge (1000-1200 grit). Angles tried: 17°-23°.

The BD1 just really put me off on the Manix. Think I spent around $100+, should have researched it better. Was wanting to see if I would like the feel better then the PM2s - answer was no.
At the obtuse angles and high polish you are using edge retention will be very low with this class of steel. I would try dropping to 15 degrees per side and going no higher than 300-600 grit and see if performance improves before writing off the steel.
Vivi - pulled out the DMT stones and reprofiled to 15.5°/ps and stopped at blue (45 microns) with a single light pass of red per side (25 microns). Wiped the blade down and couldn't help giving each side (2) swipes each on a bare leather strop.

I'll use this edge fire daily tasks this weekend and next week. To see if BD1 and an acute angle are worth looking at other models (Raven2) for EDC.

Haven't decided if I'll prep a 111mm SAK for comparison, gut tells me Manix2 will out perform given the new edge geometry (but may may do the same to a SAK).

Thanks again, D.
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sal
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#17

Post by sal »

We make versions of the Murray Carter kitchen knives with BD1N, ground at very thin angles and it's a good steel even at low angles. I use a Galley V to maintain them at 10 DPS (20 degrees total).

sal
99Dirk
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Re: Is BD1 an okay steel

#18

Post by 99Dirk »

So compared the reprofiled BD1 Manix2 with Buck 110 440C(?) over the weekend and the Manix held up better with needing a couple of swipes on each side of the Spydue double stuff pocket stone.

The thinner edge was okay until you have to push cut through something sitting on ground (packed earth).
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