The case for a fully serrated Byrd Meadowlark

Discuss Spyderco's byrd knives.
Josh306
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:31 am

The case for a fully serrated Byrd Meadowlark

Postby Josh306 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:30 am

Hi guys,

First thing, great to see this new Byrd sub-forum. For someone like myself, who only buys knives that I will actually use, the Byrd line is truly excellent. I only have direct experience with a couple of models so far (Cara Cara 2 FRN Rescue is my sailing knife, and just acquired an FRN Robin 2 fully serrated) but they are quickly proving themselves. They are ergonomic, the FRN grips well in the hand, the steel liners make them really strong and give them good feel in the hand, and the blade steel seems great.

My question is, will the standard Meadowlark 2 FRN be released in a fully serrated version?

Obviously there are already several Meadowlark sized Byrd's which are fully serrated - the Hawksbill and the sheepsfoot bladed Rescue model - and the standard Meadowlark also comes in a combo edge. However, I really believe there is a case for a fully serrated standard blade Meadowlark 2 FRN. These are the reasons:

1) Byrd serrations are, in general, excellent. Unlike some serrated edges, the serrations on Byrds are small enough that they do not catch in material (which seriously detracts from cutting ability). They also do not make the knife less versatile than a plain edge (which is typically why plain edges are often preferred over serrations)

2) On a blade that is relatively short, effective serrations massively increase the cutting power of the knife. With a plain edge blade, tough material sometimes has to be really heavily sawed at in order to get through, and on Meadowlark sized knives the blade is not long enough to safely perform that kind of vigorous sawing. My fully serrated Robin 2, despite having only 48mm in blade length, can chew through tough material like hosepipe quickly and safely.

3) Meadowlark / Delica is the perfect size for an EDC. I use a Cara Cara 2 Rescue for sailing because I'm often wearing gloves and the extra handle length is very useful for grip. The Robin 2 is also great, particularly when real discretion is required, but I can only get 3 fingers on the handle unless I use the choil, which is ok but does put the thumb in a bit of an awkward position ahead of the jimping on the blade. In my average sized guy hands, the Meadowlark is the perfect size for an EDC, allowing a full bare hand grip without being unnecessarily large.

4) Finally, the sheepsfoot Rescue and the Hawksbill are specially shaped blades, for special purposes. If you have one of those purposes (like I do, when sailing) they are great, but they are not general purpose EDC blades. As for the combo edge, as has been said many times, there is simply not enough serration on them to be useful, and what there is is at the wrong end of the blade. Serrations are for sawing cuts, and you saw with the length of the blade beginning at the tip.

For all these reasons, I believe the Meadowlark 2 FRN (and probably the Cara Cara 2 as well) should be released with full serrations.

User avatar
Blerv
Member
Posts: 11695
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 11:24 am

Postby Blerv » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:00 am

Great post and welcome to the forums :) .

I'm a serrated fan like you but it seems much more prefer a plain edge. Teeth put even a steel like 8Cr into superhero world of cutting so go figure more dont agree. :confused:

If you haven't tried a rescue you might in the meanwhile. I really like the blade shape for my cutting needs over a drop point. A little PE tip (half an inch) would be nice tho.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

User avatar
ASmitty
Member
Posts: 979
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: South Dakota
Contact:

Postby ASmitty » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:15 am

Welcome Josh306!

I think you make an excellent point in your case for a full serrated Meadowlark (and by extension Cara Cara). Although, I probably wouldn't buy or carry one, I do see the need for it. My own preference is for a combo edge blade. I don't need serrations as often as some people, but I do like to have them when needed. I also really like having the versatility of both edge types in my EDC.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a danish."

Quietly lurking the Spyderco forum since 2003...

User avatar
defenestrate
Member
Posts: 2357
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: RTP NC area
Contact:

Postby defenestrate » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:13 pm

I agree and would like to see SE Meadowlarks and Cara Cara. The Cara Cara Rescue is pretty nice looking, though. If i can still get one of those soon, I probably will to replace traded and stolen Rescues of past days.
I drink, and I cut things.
-er, me, by way of Tyrion Lannister

Josh306
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:31 am

Postby Josh306 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:12 am

In all honesty I've strongly preferred plain edges myself in the past, and to an extent still do. It really just depends on what type of task the knife is being put to. I think the perception has been that serrated knives are useful for some tasks (cutting really tough material etc.) but that the serrations make the knife much less useful for all other tasks. That is definitely true with some serrations, particularly when they are very toothy. I had a CRKT M21 with a combo edge, and the serrations on that thing were complete ****, not only bad at cutting things you would normally use a plain edge for but also terrible on tough material, hose piping etc. The problem was that the teeth were way too exaggerated, and would hang up on any material I tried to cut. Complete ****, the thing was useless. But when serrations are done properly they really can produce a great EDC knife. One thing that does help with the Byrds is that the serrations are ground on the left side of the blade, and because I'm left handed that means as I slice into something pushing the edge away from me the blade works a bit like a chisel, giving a lot of control. It works less well if I'm bringing the edge of the blade towards me, for example peeling a piece of fruit. It would obviously be the opposite using them right handed.

bdblue
Member
Posts: 1373
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:04 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Postby bdblue » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:23 pm

Josh306 wrote:3) Meadowlark / Delica is the perfect size for an EDC. I use a Cara Cara 2 Rescue for sailing because I'm often wearing gloves and the extra handle length is very useful for grip.
I was thinking the same thing and I thought it odd that the ML didn't come in full SE but the Delica does.

I wanted one to go with my Hawkbill and Ladybug:

Image

ToneGrail
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:34 pm

Postby ToneGrail » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:52 am

I'd also like to see a fully serrated Cara Cara and Meadowlark. I'd buy both.

User avatar
sal
Member
Posts: 12289
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Golden, Colorado USA

Postby sal » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:04 pm

Hi Josh, Tonegrail too,

Welcome to our forum.

Thanx much for your kind commens and suggestion, we'll keep it in mind. We've been making serrations for a long time and have a pretty fair handle on how they should be. It does take a while to teach makers to make them. They often have their own ideas about how serrations should "look" with little consideration to how they perform. Certainly not all serrations are "created equal".

You might consider a Wings Slipit which is an interesting combination of blades.

What do you sail?

sal

Josh306
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:31 am

Postby Josh306 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:39 am

Hi Sal, thanks for the welcome mate, appreciated. I know for a certainty that your company has a lot of fans here in Australia where I live. I'm sure you're also aware of the **** we've been going through with our customs service, which has literally become a law unto itself. Knife laws are very strict in Australia but it is absolutely not illegal to own one-hand opening knives, and yet customs have taken it upon themselves to severely disrupt their importation to the country. Its an absurd situation and it has Spyderco fans in Australia like myself bloody furious. I heard that there were legal challenges going on, but not sure what the status of those is. Thankfully there are still a few companies that seem to have plenty of stock, or are managing to import.

But back on topic, the Wings Slipit looks ok, but I only really buy folding knives with locks. Sliced my finger badly as a kid with a slipjoint swiss army knife that closed on me, and have been pretty wary ever since. The Wings G10 looks really good though, possibly for a sailing knife as there are times when a nice pointy plain edge is very useful. Will probably buy one if I can find it here in Aus.

As for boats, I've mainly sailed off-the-beach catamarans, Paper Tigers and Mosquitos. They may not be well known in the States, not sure. Really exciting boats to sail. More recently I've been sailing a lovely old wooden keelboat that my father bought. Not as thrilling as the cats but fun nonetheless.

Josh.

ToneGrail
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:34 pm

Postby ToneGrail » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:07 pm

Hello Sal! It's an honor to speak to you. I'm a big fan. Anyhow, Spyderco serrations are the only ones I like, I won't buy a serrated knife of any other brand. They just don't work as well.

I already have the full size Byrd Wings that I carry on my duty belt for cutting seat belts and utility use. However for EDC, it's a little thick, which is why I'd love to see a serrated Cara Cara or Meadowlark. I EDC both the plain edge versions since I'm not a fan of partial serrations.

User avatar
sal
Member
Posts: 12289
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Golden, Colorado USA

Postby sal » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:43 pm

Hi Josh,

We've been watching Oz very closely. Zen has been our distributor for more than 20 years and they've been working/fighting with customs. It doesn't look very good. Right now we're planning a two hand open Rescue that locks open, can't be flicked and have a second blade/function.

The new Fixed blade "Enuff" might be legal to carry and fit in a pocket.

sal

Josh306
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:31 am

Postby Josh306 » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:43 am

The Rescue sounds interesting Sal, I'll look out for it. Here in Australia carrying any knife in public, whether fixed or folding, is illegal unless you have a genuine, good reason for having it. A genuine reason might be a fisherman with his gear on a pier, someone hiking in a remote area or a construction worker travelling to or from work etc. Self-defence is explicitly excluded as a good reason. It would be illegal to EDC for the purpose of having a knife simply for use in unforeseen circumstances.

User avatar
Half Sack
Member
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:55 am
Location: Alberta, undisclosed location of the Weapon Plus Program

Postby Half Sack » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:33 am

I visited Oz in 2009 and had a great time. I did bring a knives with me and used them during my trip, this was before the :spyder: bit me, but its sad to hear what's going on with the laws.
Chances are I could've faced some issues with packing knives with no good reason.

I don't have any Byrd/Spyder half serrated (excluding my Caspian) I've avoided half serrated and my full serrated knives are hawkbills but a full serrated Meadowlark might catch my eye.

Edit: Meadowlark Rescue fill the need with the small plain edge tip?
Welcome to our newest member, Half Sack
:spyder: Endura4 wave, Ladybug Hawkbill H1, Byrd Hawkbill, PM2 digi camo, Sharpmaker *Sprints: Dodo Orange, MeerKat Burgundy, "R" Nishijin *Discontinued: Caspian H1 :spyder: #ByrdWeek Winner :cool:
No one likes the dark - Robin Sherbatsky
*Signature not updated, purchases missing...*


User avatar
sal
Member
Posts: 12289
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Golden, Colorado USA

Postby sal » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:56 pm

We've been shipping Spyderco Rescue models to the Australian government, which buys them for the rescue teams. But to date, we don't have anything that the Givernment says OK, you can carry this. We think we have been able to provide the UK and Denmark with legal carry EDC models, but Oz is still elusive. We'll try again when I return to the States.

Hi Coool,

Welcome to our forum. Hope you enjoy your time spent here.

sal


Return to “byrd Knife General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest