New byrd model?

Discuss Spyderco's byrd knives.
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defenestrate
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Postby defenestrate » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:11 am

A karambit would be cool, but I'm not sure how well it would sell. That said, if fixed blades from byrd come out, a fixed karambit, made simply but with more of a traditional FMA-intended design, I think could sell well because of the price point and niche.
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Postby Donut » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:06 pm

Maybe a Byrd Ronin. :)
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Postby ugaarguy » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:06 am

I'm probably the least liked person on this forum right now, so take this with a grain of salt. However, Spyderco already donates 5% of Sage sales to the Denver chapter of the National Alzheimer's Association. I lost my paternal grandmother to Alzheimer's and finally terminal dementia, so that's a cause that's very close to my heart.

I think it would be great if at least one future Byrd model was named after a bird of prey, and a small percentage of sales were donated to the World Center for Birds of Prey in Boise, ID; or to a similar raptor conservation and rehab center.

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Postby ugaarguy » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:12 am

Ooops, double tap.

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Postby RJNC » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:00 pm

Still love my new Finch, it's a great affordable, solid little knife.

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Postby sal » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:15 pm

Hi Ugaarguy,

thanx for the thought. I don't think that byrd sales are large enough yet to do as much good as we like to. Perhaps inthe future.

Thanx RJNC. Appreciate the feedback.

sal

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Postby ugaarguy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:43 pm

Sal, thanks for the reply. Any ideas on why Byrd sales aren't where you want them to be? The three Byrds I have aren't as refined as all the true Spydies I have, but I think they're exceptional values.

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defenestrate
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Postby defenestrate » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:17 am

I'd guess that market penetration is tough for a small company with so much competition. I always recommend them to people who only buy inexpensive knives.
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Postby sal » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:11 am

As mentioned, market penetration takes time and persistence. We're also competing against hundreds of other Chinese made knifes, many from known named brands.

sal

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Postby TargaMonteSS » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:28 pm

In the 20-30 dollar knife range, I feel consumer tastes are different than what the byrd line provides, and market is extremely saturated with these knives. Non knife people distinguish 20 dollar pocket knives by features not steel quality or company reputation. People want colors, gimicky glass breakers, seat belt cutters on their cheap knives. Smith and wesson border guards, Kabar Doziers, Sanrenmus stamped with Boker and countless other chinese imports cater to this market very well, Is it worth it for spyderco to enter this market. I personally dont think so, but I enjoy my byrd knife and this hobby.
God Bless

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Postby ugaarguy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:56 pm

We're also competing against hundreds of other Chinese made knifes, many from known named brands.
Sal, I think brand recognition is the issue. I'll expand on that a bit. I think TargaMonteSS is correct on non-knife people focusing on superfluous features, but he's also correct that non-knife people recognize names like Smith and Wesson. After that, though, I'd divide knife people into two categories: Users and Aficionados. Users buy moderately priced knives to actually use, and most of those people know they don't superfluous features. They aren't Aficionados like us who frequent knife forums. Further, coming from the gun culture side of things, I've seen many gun aficionados who are knife people only in the tool user sense.

There's the problem, as I see it. It's only Aficionados who know that Byrd is part of Spyderco, and Byrd isn't targeted at aficionados. Users see the green box and the comet shaped blade hole and assume Byrd is Spyderco knockoff, and therefor must be inferior. Non-knife people don't know the brand either, and the knives don't have the cool factor for that group.

As points of comparison, the HK Pika series by Benchmade is the most direct competitor to the Byrd Robin / Meadowlark / Cara Cara line. Non-knife guys know the HK name, and they might buy it despite the lack of features. Knife users also know the HK name, and it's somewhat known in the gun community that Benchmade makes HK knives. Then there's Boker. They throw superfluous features at the non-knife folks with the Magnum line. Then they hit the knife user with simple, quality designs under the Boker Plus line. The knives are sturdy and users know the Boker name. Boker pushes the plus line further with things like the subcom and other CLB collaborations that even get knife aficionados to buy them. Kershaw takes an even more subtle approach. Everything is a Kershaw, and the US made knives get the US Flag / Made in USA logo added to the box and added on promotional materials. I know that Spyderco can't internally keep up with every other knife company, but take a look at Kershaw's Cryo line, along with the Thermite, Zing, and Chill. The Cryo models and the Thermite are Rick Hinderer designs. The Zing and Chill are RJ Martin designs. All of those are made in China, but they're very well made. With those Kershaw gives the non-knife guy name recognition, cool looks, neat pocket clips, and the fun factor of assisted opening. Users get name recognition, a designer they may have heard of, and a sturdy frame lock knife.

So, given my above reflections and comparisons to the competition, I have to wonder: Is it time to drop the Byrd name? Maybe it's time to put a round hole on the Meadowlark, sell it in a red and black Spyderco box, rename it the Standard, and make it the return of the C05. Then follow suit with the rest of the Byrds.

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Postby Officer Gigglez » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:17 pm

defenestrate wrote:A karambit would be cool, but I'm not sure how well it would sell. That said, if fixed blades from byrd come out, a fixed karambit, made simply but with more of a traditional FMA-intended design, I think could sell well because of the price point and niche.
Good call
Spyderco Knives (in order of obtainment):
-Tenacious, Combo edge
-Tasman Salt, PE
-Persistence Blue, PE
-Pacific Salt, Black, PE
-Delica 4, Emerson Grey
-DiAlex Junior
-Byrd SS Crossbill, PE
-Endura 4 Emerson Grey
-Byrd Meadowlark 2 FRN, PE
-Resilience

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Postby Officer Gigglez » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:22 pm

TargaMonteSS wrote:In the 20-30 dollar knife range, I feel consumer tastes are different than what the byrd line provides, and market is extremely saturated with these knives. Non knife people distinguish 20 dollar pocket knives by features not steel quality or company reputation. People want colors, gimicky glass breakers, seat belt cutters on their cheap knives. Smith and wesson border guards, Kabar Doziers, Sanrenmus stamped with Boker and countless other chinese imports cater to this market very well, Is it worth it for spyderco to enter this market. I personally dont think so, but I enjoy my byrd knife and this hobby.
God Bless
Yeah. Those who buy the low priced knives generally are shooting for the "mall ninja" features.
Spyderco Knives (in order of obtainment):
-Tenacious, Combo edge
-Tasman Salt, PE
-Persistence Blue, PE
-Pacific Salt, Black, PE
-Delica 4, Emerson Grey
-DiAlex Junior
-Byrd SS Crossbill, PE
-Endura 4 Emerson Grey
-Byrd Meadowlark 2 FRN, PE
-Resilience

ugaarguy
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Postby ugaarguy » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:26 pm

Yeah. Those who buy the low priced knives generally are shooting for the "mall ninja" features.
Depends on if they're non-knife people / knife wannabes, or if they're knife users who aren't aficionados like us. Non-aficionado users aren't swayed by mall ninja features. Opinel is still business, and the younger guys seem to have discovered Mora of Sweden as well. Those are both about as far from mall ninja as one can get.

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Postby Blerv » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:27 pm

ugaarguy wrote:Depends on if they're non-knife people / knife wannabes, or if they're knife users who aren't aficionados like us. Non-aficionado users aren't swayed by mall ninja features. Opinel is still business, and the younger guys seem to have discovered Mora of Sweden as well. Those are both about as far from mall ninja as one can get.
Yep :) .

Those seeking functional tools have found solace with some of the cheaper brands. Typically for the money the more flashy the less functional or well made. Fooling the YouTube generation is easy...the knife fanatics pick out the losers quickly. Byrds are a nice mix of modern and quality without the silliness.
ugaarguy wrote:I'm probably the least liked person on this forum right now, so take this with a grain of salt.
I very much doubt that :) . All our salt is equal here, bud.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

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Postby ugaarguy » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:41 am

Thanks, Blake.

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Officer Gigglez
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Postby Officer Gigglez » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:45 am

Rough sketch I scribbled up today. The blade obviously needs to be longer in the pic to fit, but the measurements should remedy any confusion. Not sure on a name, and any/all criticisms, suggestions, etc. are welcome.
Image
Spyderco Knives (in order of obtainment):
-Tenacious, Combo edge
-Tasman Salt, PE
-Persistence Blue, PE
-Pacific Salt, Black, PE
-Delica 4, Emerson Grey
-DiAlex Junior
-Byrd SS Crossbill, PE
-Endura 4 Emerson Grey
-Byrd Meadowlark 2 FRN, PE
-Resilience

TargaMonteSS
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Postby TargaMonteSS » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:24 am

Reminds me of some of mantis karambits they even use a circle opening hole on a bunch of theirs

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Postby TargaMonteSS » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:52 pm

"Hyacinth" pronounced hi- ya- sin- th after the rare Macaw would be cool. Karambits remind me of a macaws beak.

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Donut
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Postby Donut » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:31 am

(This paragraph is a ramble.) I was thinking that if you could give people a little higher quality in a cheap knife, you could win a portion of the market over. If you can give higher quality at the same price, it will win opinions. At that point you could offer another moderate step up in quality for $10 more.

To me, it seems like the casual market is looking for different things than I am now. I will try to think back to when I was buying $20-30 knives.

When buying:
1. I want something that isn't ugly.
2. I want something that is easy to carry. (Clip, thin, light.)
3. I want something that doesn't feel bad in my hand.
4. I want something that is easy to operate.
5. I want something that feels reliable.
6. I want about a 3.5" blade.
7. Prefer USA made if possible.

After buying:
1. I want something that doesn't fall apart.
2. I want something that doesn't rust.
3. I want something that is easy to clean.
4. I didn't care about sharpening, if it got too dull, it would give me a chance to look for something different.

I used to think back lock was too difficult based on my history with bad back locks. I would buy liner/frame locks. The few knives I got before trying Byrd/Spyderco were frame locks with steel handles because they offered moderate weight and felt sturdy. (If anyone here remembers, I used to not think much of frame locks because they all felt cheap, I still don't like them, but I put up with them.) I didn't need extreme ergonomics, I didn't need extreme wear resistance or carbides, I didn't need tip up, tip down, I carried tip down because it was more available.

I was not looking for a tactical folder or high abuse folder because I didn't want to pay extra for those features. I just wanted a simple knife that would offer me the most (from my list of demands :p ) for my money.


So, in relation to Byrd, what could we offer to this market?

Why doesn't Byrd make more Liner/Frame locks? More open construction?

8Cr13MoV doesn't seem to offer great corrosion resistance, are all other manufacturers using 8Cr13MoV on their China made knives? I still think CTS-BD1 would make Byrd stand out as higher quality.

IMO, Spyderco's strong point is the LBK's. It seems like a LBK with a clip and liner lock would be good for the market.
-Brian
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Waiting on a Squeak, Pingo, and Cliptools with a Split Spring!


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