Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Discuss Spyderco's byrd knives.
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araneae
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Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby araneae » Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:33 am

Hey Sal,

People often ask for steel upgrades in the Byrd and Budget line knives. The swap to an American steel has apparently been a bit troublesome and costly. Have you looked at 9Cr18Mo recently? I recall that back when the mule was produced, there were some issues, I think maybe warping, but it seems to be used more commonly now. Civivi seems to do a very decent job with it, and it even appears in Schrade branded knives, can't vouch for those.

Of side interest, Artisan cutlery appears to have developed their own proprietary Chinese PM steel, AR-RPM9. Exact chemistry has not been revealed, which makes me skeptical. If it pans out, this could be a big step for the budget knife world.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
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The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby sal » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:38 am

Hi Nick,

I'll check current status of 9Cr with our makers.

sal

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby TomAiello » Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:40 am

Isn't 9cr just another name for 440c? Or am I misremembering that?

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby vivi » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:17 pm

TomAiello wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:40 am
Isn't 9cr just another name for 440c? Or am I misremembering that?
I believe the chemistry is different on these two steels.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/9cr18mo.shtml

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=440C

They are very similar either way.
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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby araneae » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:27 am

TomAiello wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:40 am
Isn't 9cr just another name for 440c? Or am I misremembering that?
It's similar, but not the same.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
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The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby Jurphaas » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:47 am

Many, many years ago, when Spyderco was introducing their More affordable Byrd line made in China. 9Cr18Mo was indeed a chinese steel Sal was testing. For this testing just a few Catbyrd mules were made with this steel. These were the early ones with the linerlock and the 50/50 forward finger choil. Later the production models were fitted with a frame lock.The ying and yang anti slip inlay pieces were grey instead of black. I have one and I am still very impressed by the quality of Spyderco's Chinese production at that time. Although I have the knife, I am unble to put a picture up here. Still Amazing what Sal/Spyderco and crew were able to come up with in those early Byrd years. I do not know what stopped Sal from producing the BY18 Catbyrd with this 9Cr18Mo.

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby araneae » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:15 am

Jurphaas wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:47 am
Many, many years ago, when Spyderco was introducing their More affordable Byrd line made in China. 9Cr18Mo was indeed a chinese steel Sal was testing. For this testing just a few Catbyrd mules were made with this steel. These were the early ones with the linerlock and the 50/50 forward finger choil. Later the production models were fitted with a frame lock.The ying and yang anti slip inlay pieces were grey instead of black. I have one and I am still very impressed by the quality of Spyderco's Chinese production at that time. Although I have the knife, I am unble to put a picture up here. Still Amazing what Sal/Spyderco and crew were able to come up with in those early Byrd years. I do not know what stopped Sal from producing the BY18 Catbyrd with this 9Cr18Mo.
I had forgot about those, wasn't that the Titanium version? I think a sprint run.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got:D'fly K390 ,GITD

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby Jurphaas » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:27 am

Hi araneae, Yes you are right it is one of the titanium models. I checked with a magnet and even the Pocketclip is Ti.
This is a very early example from the very first attempts of Spyderco to have production of more affordable (Instead of Cheap!) knives produced in China. This was before the Byrd line became a reality. The Byrd knives had a slow and difficult start due to the fact that they were produced in China. In America people at that time were very reluctant about China and Chinese made products. However, the visionary in Sal knew that a value line of Spyderco knives could never be produced in Golden at any time. It took a while to find the correct partner in China who was not all about producing huge volumes. The people Sal found were running a small company and were eager to learn from Spyderco and to grow at a steady pace. Long ago Sal told me that he was doing chalk drawings on the factory floors to explain the technical specifics of Spyderco knives. The early journeys to China that the Glessers did, must have been really adventurous.... Just to explain my relationship with Sal, I am the organizer of the yearly Amsterdam Spyderco Fan meet in March before the Spyderco crew moves on to the IWA tradeshow in Germany.

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby Michael Janich » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:53 am

Hey, Jurphaas:

It's great to see you sharing your knowledge here! Your historical perspective on Spyderco knives and their evolution is truly incredible. I miss you, brother!!!

Stay safe,

Mike

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby GarageBoy » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:10 am

Would the sandvik steels be an option?

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby sal » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:41 am

Hi GarageBoy,

We use Sandvik steel on some of the China made Models. Mostly on the very small Slip-joints, "Bug", etc.

sal

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby TomAiello » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:04 pm

14c28n would be a great budget steel, if it's in the same price range. The Kershaw Leek in 14c28n is one of the best values in folding knives on the market today.

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby Bemo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:07 pm

I'd love some 14c28n in the Byrd line. Bet it is great done SE.

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby defenestrate » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:17 pm

I'm happy enuogh with the Sandvik 12c27 on a couple of my moras. 14c28n would be even better.

I got a couple of the 9Cr18Mo Mule 5s, and while I seem to recall hearing about some warping issues (this was a bit more than a decade ago and the only Mule I could afford at the time), I never noticed it on mine and I thought they were good blades and a crazy good deal.

I'd be happy to get into either of these, especially if the steel premium didn't hike the price too much. I'm generally happy with my 8Cr13MoV byrds and regularly EDC them (right now I carry a waved CaraCara2 to match up with my waed Matriarch 2 still and they're both fine blades).

I haven't seen a good side-by-side comparison of 14c28n and 9cr18mov. Looks like the former has a bit less carbon, but can take a bit higher rc, I'd also guess that on average it is ilkely to be a cleaner steel.

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby GarageBoy » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:41 am

But not many companies take the Sandviks up that high on the hardness
Does 9CR have better wear resistance?

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby vivi » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:51 pm

The sandvik steels mentioned have better corrosion resistance in my experience, but 8Cr as heat treated by Spyderco has surprisingly good edge retention.
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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby Daven82 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:56 pm

I like knives with the finger choil. Thought very similar the meadowlark is a different animal compared to the delica. Kara kara vs Endura
DN

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby sal » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:25 pm

Hi Daven,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby Bemo » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:51 pm

Hate to drag up an old thread (*cough* no not really) I just watched a video from Outpost76 testing a couple examples and heat treated properly it seems like a very good steel. Better than any of the imported D2 and rivaling M390 tests. Granted it's cardboard but it looks very promising. I would love to see what Spyderco could do in either the Byrd or the value line.

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Re: Re-examining 9Cr18Mo as an option

Postby araneae » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:04 am

Artisan's AR-RPM9 appears to be a PM version of 9Cr18MoV.

Per knife newsroom: The composition of AR-RPM9 is: 0.9% Carbon, 18% Chromium, 1.0% Molybdenum, 0.45% Manganese, 0.1% Vanadium, 0.30% Cobalt, 0.2-0.8% Silicon, less than 0.40% Nickle, and less than 0.05% Rare Earth.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick

Just got:D'fly K390 ,GITD

The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal


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