Bodacious Discussion

[JSumm]

I feel like the Shaman is meant to use the choil first. It is a large choil with a big fat nub to make it feel nice and secure. Feels great that way. But because of the large comfortable choil, it just does not feel right behind it I agree. The Polestar made me really appreciate choilless Spyderco ergonomics. That and the Rock Jumper. I have so wanted a big choilless Golden model. For that, I'm excited we have this to look forward to.

[wrdwrght]

I feel like the Shaman is meant to use the choil first.

I think you’re right, Jeff. In this position, my hand is nicely locked in.

[vivi]

Agreed. The shaman feels like an ergonomic masterpiece choked up. But gripped behind the choil I found it a bit blade heavy, and the large choil meant the cutting edge was pretty far from my grip.

Interested to see how this model plays out.

[Manixguy@1994]

Agreed. The shaman feels like an ergonomic masterpiece choked up. But gripped behind the choil I found it a bit blade heavy, and the large choil meant the cutting edge was pretty far from my grip.

Interested to see how this model plays out.

I am hoping this knife does well in sales as well as good reviews . Hopefully in future a Manix XL choilless version as suggested by you could be a reality . Dan

[apollo]

Agreed. The shaman feels like an ergonomic masterpiece choked up. But gripped behind the choil I found it a bit blade heavy, and the large choil meant the cutting edge was pretty far from my grip.

Interested to see how this model plays out.

I am hoping this knife does well in sales as well as good reviews . Hopefully in future a Manix XL choilless version as suggested by you could be a reality . Dan

As the Shaman is a great seller even for its price i do not think it will be hard for the bodacious to find a fan base.

[Manixguy@1994]

Agreed. The shaman feels like an ergonomic masterpiece choked up. But gripped behind the choil I found it a bit blade heavy, and the large choil meant the cutting edge was pretty far from my grip.

Interested to see how this model plays out.

I am hoping this knife does well in sales as well as good reviews . Hopefully in future a Manix XL choilless version as suggested by you could be a reality . Dan

As the Shaman is a great seller even for its price i do not think it will be hard for the bodacious to find a fan base.

Yes I agree and I am optimistic Bodacious will be successful. Dan

[Ramonade]

Yes I agree and I am optimistic Bodacious will be successful. Dan

I was gonna go for it but so far the only EU dealer listing it is doing so at 275€. I was never attracted by the Shaman but I can't go for the Bodacious if it's even more expensive than the former. Too bad !

I might find one on the secondary later on

[Notsurewhy]

I may be misremembering, but I thought it took a while before the shaman became popular. If I recall, it was a surprise when the early sprints sold out really quickly because the regular model wasn't selling very briskly.

I think the shaman's high price kept some folks away but eventually the design won them over. I think the more "special" materials of sprints/exclusives made the higher price more palatable.

If the bodacious follows the path of the shaman, all will be well.

But I worry that it may be more like the doomed manix 2 back lock. It was priced higher than the similar sized and materials pm2 and g10 manix 2 of the time. It also got rid of a popular feature that many liked about the model it was based on (liners in the case of the manix2 BL, vs contoured scales on the bodacious). The manix2 BL was discontinued before it even had a chance to get a Sprint or exclusives. And people on this forum who bought one rave about the manix2 BL. There were just a lot of similar sized options that were cheaper and/or offered more interesting materials.

Bottom line, people are going to be blown away by the design if they're going to buy a g10/s30v bodacious before a significantly cheaper crucarta manix 2 xl or military 2. Or a cheaper s110v military 2. Or a cheaper pm2 salt in g10 and magnacut, etc

[abbazaba]

Gave the Shaman a couple tries and never connected. I'll definitely give this one a go.

[JSumm]

Agreed. The shaman feels like an ergonomic masterpiece choked up. But gripped behind the choil I found it a bit blade heavy, and the large choil meant the cutting edge was pretty far from my grip.

Interested to see how this model plays out.

I am hoping this knife does well in sales as well as good reviews . Hopefully in future a Manix XL choilless version as suggested by you could be a reality . Dan

I would be very interested in a choilless Manix series. See how this one does. If successful, let the request threads begin!

[RamZar]

Shaman S30V Satin has a street price of $252.00 mostly due to the “expensive” contouring of the G-10.

Bodacious S30V Satin has a street price of $245.00 without the “expensive” contouring of the G-10.

Military2 S30V Satin & G-10 has a street price of $196.00.

ParaMilitary2 S45VN Satin & G-10 has a street price of $185.50.

All are Compression Lock.

Price-wise, Bodacious seems to be the odd one out.

[Mushroom]

If I were to guess, that means the Shaman will be seeing a hefty price increase come the new year! If not, the Bodacious is just overpriced.

[Matus]

Shaman had its share of hefty price increases already I would say ...

[Cl1ff]

I’m not gonna say it’s worth a 50 dollar difference from the Military 2, but the Bodacious does have a grind similar to the Shaman and the G10 appears to be finished smooth (not just peel-ply). This does mean there are some different/extra steps that could feasibly affect labor and machining costs.

I think it would be better if the price was about $200, like the Military 2.

[JSumm]

You are correct Cl1ff. It will be smooth G-10 and not peel-ply.

I wonder if the taller blade means more waste in the steel blanks. It is hard to reconcile the pricing difference. Especially compared to the Military 2. For me, I will still buy one because I have been waiting for a choilless design from Golden, but it is a bit of head scratcher. There has to be more to it.

[Ramonade]

Maybe there's issues with making/supplying G10.

ETA : Nevermind, forgot that other Golden models offer G10 and similar construction.

[cabfrank]

It certainly makes the Military 2 seem value priced, relatively.
I like the Bodacious quite a bit though.

[Toddm]

I feel like the Shaman is meant to use the choil first. It is a large choil with a big fat nub to make it feel nice and secure. Feels great that way. But because of the large comfortable choil, it just does not feel right behind it I agree. The Polestar made me really appreciate choilless Spyderco ergonomics. That and the Rock Jumper. I have so wanted a big choilless Golden model. For that, I'm excited we have this to look forward to.

This sums the oddity of the Shaman up for me. It's a big thick blade knife (for a spyderco), yet the choked up choil position feels much more secure and balanced. The choil is so large in fact that by the time you move behind it, there's not enough handle/contouring at the rear of the handle to get a secure grip. This seems odd to me simply because you make a big beefy knife with a handle designed to be much better at fine detail cutting than actual heavier use that the blade is designed for. Worse yet it's then paired with a polished smooth handle for even less grip. I've dropped my Shaman more in the last year during use/opening/closing than I have all the knives I've owned in the last 30 years. A peel ply textured G10 handle would have helped this issue.

The Bodacious is an improvement, but again smooth G10 handle, no thanks. 99% of users never use their folder enough to develop hot spots, so grip/retention is a huge factor (or it should be). Anyone using a knife daily so much to get hot spots on peel ply, would be better served using a fixed blade. Smooth G10 works on fixed blades because the handle can be contoured and shaped for retention, a folder is much more limited since the handle has to stay fairly thin/flat.

[JSumm]

I do believe a big reason people switch out those beautiful contoured scales is not just the fault of the smoothness. It is the contouring similar to the Kapara in combination with the compression lock. When you pinch grip to close, if you look at your fingers they can end up north or south of the contouring and the pinch can sometimes push the knife out of your grip. I just don't think contouring works best with the compression lock. If the Shaman and Kapara were backlocks, I don't think you would see as many complaints about dropping them.

Seeing is believing. I got the chance to play around with the Bodacious at Blade Show. I don't think the smooth G10 is going to be much of a grip issue now that they have flattened out the scales and kept the CL. Nice flat large area to pinch. Texture would help of course, but it is not going to be as big of an issue now.

[sal]

Interesting discussion. Thanx much.

Just Talkin" Story:

Like many of my designs, I tend to be pretty OCD and it's not uncommon for a design to take a year or two to refine to where I think it's ready for you. The Shaman project took more than 2 years for the original and another year for the "variations" ( Bodacious & Edgerati ). We build the original model as a test bed for the design/concept. The variations will be likewise. If the Design/Concept is well received, then we use your suggestions for material changes for us and for Sprints and Exclusives.

sal