MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
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MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Hello All,
It is rare that I start a thread here and this will be a first of sorts for me. I purchased 4 (yes boys, four) AEB-L Mules to back up my sentiments in asking Spyderco to introduce finer grained and higher hardened "low-end" steels into their lineup. Well, Spyderco delivered, so I voted with my coins to hold up my end of the moaning.
First off, this is (are) my first Mule(s). Some folks within the release thread have noted a higher grind at the ricasso, which all four of my examples feature. To be honest, I've found no real difference from more recent Spydies that I've purchased (which admittedly is quite sparse these days). The factory grinding seems par for the course, IME; though I will state my dislike in just how high the grinds seem to be, especially right off the bat (*speaking mostly with experience out of the Seki factory, FWIW).
Picture to show reference; post first sharpening:
Shawn wanted feedback from those who have sharpened and I figure I'll be first up to bat. All but one Mule I received had edges that I'd consider "poor"; meaning the cutting ability would be forced and unsafe to actually cut materials. All factory edges were extremely coarse and unrefined. Initially I merely stropped the edge with 4 micron, followed by 1 micron Stroppy Stuff on leather, which resulted in an incredibly aggressive and toothy edge. I planned to maybe play with this edge before getting an initial sharpening out of the way, whilst letting the scales have time to settle after loctitening. To my dismay, no one has posted any real feedback on this Mule as of yet, so I decided what the heck; I'll do my due diligence and hopefully inspire more folks to share their experiences.
I took the Mule straight to the Spyderco Medium Bench Stone. The factory bevel is definitely sub 15 degrees, however I have no real equipment to relay an accurate measurement. Initial response is that this steel is hardened steel. It took some time and work to nearly remove all of the factory scratch pattern using just the Brown Stone. Diamonds or a coarser stone would have made the effort much quicker. Roughly 10 minutes of work and I had a burr that was ready to be reduced on the UF Bench Stone.
Upon starting burr reduction, I could hear and feel the burr fracture and crumble right off of the edge like the shook rodent that it was. I will be honest, that this is the first time I've ever experienced this sort of behavior to this magnitude. I took that as a sign of excellent matrix structure due to the heat treatment. Bravo to the Italian factory for their efforts and kudos to Shawn for the recipe in making this such a wonderful experience. After a few minutes of work, flipping and flopping back and forth like a fish on land, I finished with one-handed alternating passes. It was time to hit the strop.
I used the same strop as detailed earlier: 4 micron followed by 1 micron Stroppy Stuff on leather. The resulting edge was nearly able to whittle and instead would cut free hanging hairs with the right angle. I suppose this is colloquially referred to as "tree-topping". The resulting edge was a very pleasing mixture of polished sharpness and biting aggression.
I didn't have any task at hand to facilitate usage, but you know what that means; find something to fill that demand. I went straight for an empty protein container that I had just binned and absolutely shredded it to pieces. Firstly, making a spiral cut from lid to base and then severing each fiber, piece, by piece. I'd say it was mostly medium-weight plastic, however I took a few shots of some thicker bits next to blade stock thickness that I had cleaved; just to show the beast that I had utterly defeated with complete ease.
The resulting carnage was absolute savagery.
Upon slaying this demon, I decided to place four vertical cuts on all four sides of a gallon jug of water. The thin paper band was absolutely no match after all of this cutting and it too, was flayed and dismantled.
All-in-all, I believe I cut the protein bottle into about 30 pieces, plus the cuts into the gallon water jug, making at least a conservative guess at 34 total cuts. After all of this, the edge had a bit lower sharpness than when off the strop, however still retained a healthy amount of aggression and sharpness. Absolutely no edge damage to be seen, nor felt.
Hopefully this will spark those with more (and much better) skills than I to share their experiences on what I consider the most exciting Spydie release in recent memory.
It is rare that I start a thread here and this will be a first of sorts for me. I purchased 4 (yes boys, four) AEB-L Mules to back up my sentiments in asking Spyderco to introduce finer grained and higher hardened "low-end" steels into their lineup. Well, Spyderco delivered, so I voted with my coins to hold up my end of the moaning.
First off, this is (are) my first Mule(s). Some folks within the release thread have noted a higher grind at the ricasso, which all four of my examples feature. To be honest, I've found no real difference from more recent Spydies that I've purchased (which admittedly is quite sparse these days). The factory grinding seems par for the course, IME; though I will state my dislike in just how high the grinds seem to be, especially right off the bat (*speaking mostly with experience out of the Seki factory, FWIW).
Picture to show reference; post first sharpening:
Shawn wanted feedback from those who have sharpened and I figure I'll be first up to bat. All but one Mule I received had edges that I'd consider "poor"; meaning the cutting ability would be forced and unsafe to actually cut materials. All factory edges were extremely coarse and unrefined. Initially I merely stropped the edge with 4 micron, followed by 1 micron Stroppy Stuff on leather, which resulted in an incredibly aggressive and toothy edge. I planned to maybe play with this edge before getting an initial sharpening out of the way, whilst letting the scales have time to settle after loctitening. To my dismay, no one has posted any real feedback on this Mule as of yet, so I decided what the heck; I'll do my due diligence and hopefully inspire more folks to share their experiences.
I took the Mule straight to the Spyderco Medium Bench Stone. The factory bevel is definitely sub 15 degrees, however I have no real equipment to relay an accurate measurement. Initial response is that this steel is hardened steel. It took some time and work to nearly remove all of the factory scratch pattern using just the Brown Stone. Diamonds or a coarser stone would have made the effort much quicker. Roughly 10 minutes of work and I had a burr that was ready to be reduced on the UF Bench Stone.
Upon starting burr reduction, I could hear and feel the burr fracture and crumble right off of the edge like the shook rodent that it was. I will be honest, that this is the first time I've ever experienced this sort of behavior to this magnitude. I took that as a sign of excellent matrix structure due to the heat treatment. Bravo to the Italian factory for their efforts and kudos to Shawn for the recipe in making this such a wonderful experience. After a few minutes of work, flipping and flopping back and forth like a fish on land, I finished with one-handed alternating passes. It was time to hit the strop.
I used the same strop as detailed earlier: 4 micron followed by 1 micron Stroppy Stuff on leather. The resulting edge was nearly able to whittle and instead would cut free hanging hairs with the right angle. I suppose this is colloquially referred to as "tree-topping". The resulting edge was a very pleasing mixture of polished sharpness and biting aggression.
I didn't have any task at hand to facilitate usage, but you know what that means; find something to fill that demand. I went straight for an empty protein container that I had just binned and absolutely shredded it to pieces. Firstly, making a spiral cut from lid to base and then severing each fiber, piece, by piece. I'd say it was mostly medium-weight plastic, however I took a few shots of some thicker bits next to blade stock thickness that I had cleaved; just to show the beast that I had utterly defeated with complete ease.
The resulting carnage was absolute savagery.
Upon slaying this demon, I decided to place four vertical cuts on all four sides of a gallon jug of water. The thin paper band was absolutely no match after all of this cutting and it too, was flayed and dismantled.
All-in-all, I believe I cut the protein bottle into about 30 pieces, plus the cuts into the gallon water jug, making at least a conservative guess at 34 total cuts. After all of this, the edge had a bit lower sharpness than when off the strop, however still retained a healthy amount of aggression and sharpness. Absolutely no edge damage to be seen, nor felt.
Hopefully this will spark those with more (and much better) skills than I to share their experiences on what I consider the most exciting Spydie release in recent memory.
Make Knife Grinds Thin Again.
- Deadboxhero
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Bravo
The spirit of the Mule Team is to sharpen and use and report back so we can all learn.
That is the only way our community will understand that the name of the steel on the side of the blade is not just letters and numbers for different collectable objects.
The beauty of the mule team is exploration.
We may have been born too late to discover new land and too early to explore the stars but there is limitless exploration to done in the world of materials, knives and edges.
The spirit of the Mule Team is to sharpen and use and report back so we can all learn.
That is the only way our community will understand that the name of the steel on the side of the blade is not just letters and numbers for different collectable objects.
The beauty of the mule team is exploration.
We may have been born too late to discover new land and too early to explore the stars but there is limitless exploration to done in the world of materials, knives and edges.
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Thanks weeping minora for confirming the edge might need some work. Just hadn't had a chance over the busy weekend and need some quiet time to make sure I keep all my finger tips on. Ordered a BenchStone as it's time to really start sharpening and not just maintaining these mules with what I have lying around! Appreciate your write up!
- Deadboxhero
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Well this is exciting, a whole new world awaits you.aprivetera wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:56 amThanks weeping minora for confirming the edge might need some work. Just hadn't had a chance over the busy weekend and need some quiet time to make sure I keep all my finger tips on. Ordered a BenchStone as it's time to really start sharpening and not just maintaining these mules with what I have lying around! Appreciate your write up!
Sharpening is as important as reading.
Sharpening unlocks the language of the edge which revels the wonders of the different steels.
Jump in with both feet and don't quit and you'll be rewarded with a whole new deeper world to explore.
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Hi Weeping Minora,
Thanx much for the effort and report.
sal
Thanx much for the effort and report.
sal
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Thanks Shawn!Deadboxhero wrote: Bravo
The spirit of the Mule Team is to sharpen and use and report back so we can all learn.
That is the only way our community will understand that the name of the steel on the side of the blade is not just letters and numbers for different collectable objects.
The beauty of the mule team is exploration.
We may have been born too late to discover new land and too early to explore the stars but there is limitless exploration to done in the world of materials, knives and edges.
I truly hope there will be more updates from others regarding usage and that this model won't become just another collectable for the folks that bought them.
I really dig your last statement (which I've highlighted). Made me think way beyond just knives and knife-related stuffs, but I digress.
Another massive update coming soon regarding this Mule...
Make Knife Grinds Thin Again.
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Thank you for taking the time to tune in to my experience with this Mule!aprivetera wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:56 amThanks weeping minora for confirming the edge might need some work. Just hadn't had a chance over the busy weekend and need some quiet time to make sure I keep all my finger tips on. Ordered a BenchStone as it's time to really start sharpening and not just maintaining these mules with what I have lying around! Appreciate your write up!
I think you will be incredibly happy with your AEB-L Mule when it comes to learning sharpening. I find it can take both polished and coarse edges equally well, especially when you add that final "pop" from a strop.
Please fill us in here once you put your Mule to the stones!
Make Knife Grinds Thin Again.
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Thank you, sal, for listening and offering this incredible Mule to the market. This is a special one.
Looking forward to posting as much as I can to offer as much wealth as I can to the nay-sayers of "low-tier" steels.
Make Knife Grinds Thin Again.
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Thanks for the thread and little experiment !
Can't wait to receive mine
Can't wait to receive mine
In the collection : Lots of different steels, in lots of different (and same) Spydercos.
Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives
MNOSD member 004* aka Mr. N5s
Robin. Finally made an IG : ramo_knives
MNOSD member 004* aka Mr. N5s
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Alright boys, update time.
Whilst I was pleased with my first impressions and initial results with my Mule so far, was I satisfied?
No.
I decided a full edge reprofile was in order. I've been going through much of my "collection" and either hitting a full reprofile, or sharpening, so I slid this Mule into the queue with the quickness and fast-tracked it to the front of the line.
I started in with Venev's Diamond 240 grit stone to readjust the secondary (edge) bevel, laying the shoulders back and adding a bit of convexity. It is noticeable that this particular Mule is extremely hard, of which I would not be surprised if this example sounded in at the upper limit of the 62-63 HRC range. Feels glassy smooth on the stones, yet grinds at a not too quick, yet not too slow rate. It just feels right. Zero "gumminess" that some describe when sharpening stainless steels, of which I've read AEB-L described as potentially possessing this quality, in particular.
Shawn, you f'ing nailed the heat treat recipe for this production run, as far as I'm concerned. I'm thankful for your dedication and work with Spyderco on making this project a special one, IMO.
Now, doing this all by-hand, I had scratched up the primary bevels. With how low I took the bevels, I have no way around this and just embrace the process; however, I do have a fix.
After re-setting the bevels by feel, I went ahead and blended the scratch patterns, whilst thinning out the behind-the-bevel (BTB?) measurements. The BTB measurements felt a bit thicker in certain areas versus others from the factory, so I made sure to iron that out. Commences the primary-to-secondary bevel blending and thinning process.
Here are a couple photos from that process:
180 grit sandpaper:
220 grit sandpaper:
I decided to stop after 220 grit sandpaper, as it matched the factory finish the best out of my available grits at-hand. I could have upped to 400 grit, however, the time investment was already stretching a chuck of the day thin and I was itching to gas her up and put my foot on the pedal already.
Overall, I'm satisfied with the results. I tend to fall more on the side of "perfectionist", however, you gotta know when to hold'em.
The following are comparison shots next to, or in comparison to, a factory fresh Mule.
Finished versus fresh product:
Tip comparison:
!:
Tried my best to capture the edge/BTE visually. Reprofiled:
Factory:
At this point, I hadn't yet resharpened the edge, forming an actual apex. I do have photos and have completed further testing following those processes, of which I will update in a follow-up/part 2 post, soon.
Whilst I was pleased with my first impressions and initial results with my Mule so far, was I satisfied?
No.
I decided a full edge reprofile was in order. I've been going through much of my "collection" and either hitting a full reprofile, or sharpening, so I slid this Mule into the queue with the quickness and fast-tracked it to the front of the line.
I started in with Venev's Diamond 240 grit stone to readjust the secondary (edge) bevel, laying the shoulders back and adding a bit of convexity. It is noticeable that this particular Mule is extremely hard, of which I would not be surprised if this example sounded in at the upper limit of the 62-63 HRC range. Feels glassy smooth on the stones, yet grinds at a not too quick, yet not too slow rate. It just feels right. Zero "gumminess" that some describe when sharpening stainless steels, of which I've read AEB-L described as potentially possessing this quality, in particular.
Shawn, you f'ing nailed the heat treat recipe for this production run, as far as I'm concerned. I'm thankful for your dedication and work with Spyderco on making this project a special one, IMO.
Now, doing this all by-hand, I had scratched up the primary bevels. With how low I took the bevels, I have no way around this and just embrace the process; however, I do have a fix.
After re-setting the bevels by feel, I went ahead and blended the scratch patterns, whilst thinning out the behind-the-bevel (BTB?) measurements. The BTB measurements felt a bit thicker in certain areas versus others from the factory, so I made sure to iron that out. Commences the primary-to-secondary bevel blending and thinning process.
Here are a couple photos from that process:
180 grit sandpaper:
220 grit sandpaper:
I decided to stop after 220 grit sandpaper, as it matched the factory finish the best out of my available grits at-hand. I could have upped to 400 grit, however, the time investment was already stretching a chuck of the day thin and I was itching to gas her up and put my foot on the pedal already.
Overall, I'm satisfied with the results. I tend to fall more on the side of "perfectionist", however, you gotta know when to hold'em.
The following are comparison shots next to, or in comparison to, a factory fresh Mule.
Finished versus fresh product:
Tip comparison:
!:
Tried my best to capture the edge/BTE visually. Reprofiled:
Factory:
At this point, I hadn't yet resharpened the edge, forming an actual apex. I do have photos and have completed further testing following those processes, of which I will update in a follow-up/part 2 post, soon.
Make Knife Grinds Thin Again.
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Look forward to hearing the performance advantages of taking the BTE thickness down. Appreciate it.weeping minora wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:43 amAlright boys, update time.
Whilst I was pleased with my first impressions and initial results with my Mule so far, was I satisfied?
No.
I decided a full edge reprofile was in order. I've been going through much of my "collection" and either hitting a full reprofile, or sharpening, so I slid this Mule into the queue with the quickness and fast-tracked it to the front of the line.
I started in with Venev's Diamond 240 grit stone to readjust the secondary (edge) bevel, laying the shoulders back and adding a bit of convexity. It is noticeable that this particular Mule is extremely hard, of which I would not be surprised if this example sounded in at the upper limit of the 62-63 HRC range. Feels glassy smooth on the stones, yet grinds at a not too quick, yet not too slow rate. It just feels right. Zero "gumminess" that some describe when sharpening stainless steels, of which I've read AEB-L described as potentially possessing this quality, in particular.
Shawn, you f'ing nailed the heat treat recipe for this production run, as far as I'm concerned. I'm thankful for your dedication and work with Spyderco on making this project a special one, IMO.
Now, doing this all by-hand, I had scratched up the primary bevels. With how low I took the bevels, I have no way around this and just embrace the process; however, I do have a fix.
After re-setting the bevels by feel, I went ahead and blended the scratch patterns, whilst thinning out the behind-the-bevel (BTB?) measurements. The BTB measurements felt a bit thicker in certain areas versus others from the factory, so I made sure to iron that out. Commences the primary-to-secondary bevel blending and thinning process.
Here are a couple photos from that process:
180 grit sandpaper:
220 grit sandpaper:
I decided to stop after 220 grit sandpaper, as it matched the factory finish the best out of my available grits at-hand. I could have upped to 400 grit, however, the time investment was already stretching a chuck of the day thin and I was itching to gas her up and put my foot on the pedal already.
Overall, I'm satisfied with the results. I tend to fall more on the side of "perfectionist", however, you gotta know when to hold'em.
The following are comparison shots next to, or in comparison to, a factory fresh Mule.
Finished versus fresh product:
Tip comparison:
!:
Tried my best to capture the edge/BTE visually. Reprofiled:
Factory:
At this point, I hadn't yet resharpened the edge, forming an actual apex. I do have photos and have completed further testing following those processes, of which I will update in a follow-up/part 2 post, soon.
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
First off, I apologize for my delay in getting this update aired out here on the forum. This will be another long-winded post and time and honestly the headspace when time has been available has gone towards other activities lately.
So without further ado, here's the follow up sharpening, usage and maintenance (thus far).
Upon my finishing of the reprofile that I had undertaken, the knife still needed an actual edge applied. Considering that I utilized a polished edge for my initial sharpening of this Mule, I wanted a coarser edge this round. I decided to continue down the path in using Venev Diamond Stones to apex the knife at their 400 grit rated stone. Venev uses the FEPA grit rating system, so to those unfamiliar, their 400 grit stone roughly translates to the more commonly known JIS (Japanese Waterstone) grit rating of roughly 700 grit, or roughly 17 micron. I'm assuming due to the nature of the Venev being a bit slower of a cutting stone, being diamond bonded, versus diamond plated (think DMT), along with the hardness of this Mule sample, it took a bit more effort to reach a clean, apexed edge, than what I would have thought, being such a low alloyed steel. For reference, I feel like Seki's K390 takes less time to form a burr, however, I find that this treatment of AEB-L will shed the burr and form a cleaner apex, much easier.
The resulting edge was rife with unfiltered, biting aggression. I wanted to squeeze as much as I could out of this sharpening, so I was off to the strop; Stroppy Stuff: 4 micron, followed by 1 micron, on leather. This allowed some polish to reduce a bit of the bite and add a dimension of refinement. I am extremely pleased with this simple sharpening progression. The knife was too sharp to catch or whittle hairs and instead would blow through them like the Big Bad Wolf blowing poor little piggy's house down. It might not be a beauty pageant winner, but I'll take runner-up any day with assets like that:
Now, this is running a lightly convex edge with the edge geometry nice and thin:
I have no tools to get an accurate reading on number specifics for edge thinness, or angle, so I will let the photos tell their tale.
So, what is all of this worth without some testing?
Not much.
I started in immediately on dismembering a medium sized carboard box. This was rather thick cardboard and although it was relatively clean, it was still highly abrasive and gunked up the knife with residue, cutting through tape and labels. I noticed promptly that whilst the initially sharpened polished edge preferred push cutting motions, this less refined edge preferred slicing motions. I was able to slice 130 cuts out of that carboard box:
After this cutting, the heel-half of the knife displayed a noticed reduction in sharpness when feeling the edge with the three-finger sharpness method. The tip-half would still catch the finger pads and whilst the heel-half took a bit more pressure, it too would still bite the finger pads.
After this I swiftly unleashed on a tennis ball canister. The tube itself is a thinner plastic, reminiscent to clamshell packaging, although a bit thinner and a bit less tough. I made vertical cuts around the diameter of the tube, making sure to use force and torquing cuts once reaching the base of the canister, putting as much pressure out and onto the tip of the knife as I could. I then proceeded to cut the thin vertical strips into little "chips":
This equaled out to 55 total cuts into the plastic canister. At this point, the knife had a noticeable dullness across the length of the apex, however, to my surprise, would still bite the finger pads when enough pressure was applied (*I do not recommend applying pressure whilst doing this unless you are comfortable with the three-finger sharpness edge testing method and do not inquire anyone to do so, even if they are). I left the knife in its gunked up glory and decided to test the edge on standard fare printer paper, of which it still sliced with ease:
Here are a few shots of the knife in its condition after that point:
Zero reflective light to the apex (hard to capture in photographs, however, there was zero edge damage, even after this cutting, with this geometry):
Tip caught a hair of a bend (again, was hard to capture clearly):
So, after all of this cutting, I decided it was time to wipe down the blade with alcohol and see what a little stropping would do to the edge. I hit the 4 micron and 1 micron progression again, totaling no more than two clock minutes and this was the outcome of that little effort:
Back to catching and splitting hairs.
To say that I was impressed with the edge thus far is an understatement, however, I had to hit the gas pedal again and this is technically where I get into the part 3 of this post, as this extra bit of cutting after the edge was stropped was conducted over two separate days, when the time became available.
I took very few photos of this additional usage, however, I will detail the events.
After attaining hair splitting sharpness after that initial round of cutting, I was eager to see what else I could test this edge on. I had a 12" x 3" piece of unused flesh-side (suede) leather that was peeled from a strop, ~2mm thick. I split that length wise into as many pieces as I could. There was glue residue on one side and some of the cuts would steer, as the leather was supple and I was doing the cutting "free hanging" (held in midair). I did not photograph this and I would guesstimate on the conservative side that I made at least 10 and up to 20 cuts out of this leather.
After setting a few additional items aside to test the edge on, I went ahead and cut a standard magazine catalogue into 6 pieces at its full thickness. I intentionally avoided the staples as I had additional materials to cut. I then went ahead and sliced a FedEx bubble mailer package down to size and lastly butchered up yet another medium sized cardboard box, which accounted for another 80 cuts into cardboard.
The residue left over after this cutting was much more difficult to remove this time, however it was certain that the edge was yet again feeling quite dull. This time there were no finger pads to be caught when testing the three-finger method. The entire apex of the knife looked to be blunted and of which I initially had thought so, yet, it was still slicing printer paper, with minimal hang-ups. There was no perceptible edge damage per the naked eyes. This makes me wonder if what was observed was actually just extra resilient residue from the packaging cut and that the apex may have been in better shape than I thought I had observed, however, for the testing's sake, I'll err on my initial feeling of observation that the apex was indeed thoroughly blunted.
Once again, I hit the strop. You know the drill by now; Stroppy Stuff: 4 micron, 1 micron, leather. The results left me once again absolutely gobsmacked. The knife will once again cleanly slice printer paper without hang-up, back to a crisp, non-reflective, finger pad biting apex. This level of performance is absolutely mind-blowing, IMO. I mean, I wasn't expecting a slouch, but I was not expecting to be absolutely this overjoyed, either.
At this point, I did my best to capture the edge in these two photos:
I truly think this Mule is something special and for those who actually want a Mule to test more than just edge retention, please, do yourselves a favor and pick one up to put some work in on. I'm absolutely as stunned to see zero usage reports back from anyone at this point, even in sharpening. Any and all feedback has been in regards to the factory edge grinds. I hope, Shawn, that you are incorrect in your assessment of this being just "another collectable steel with letters and numbers", however, I have to agree with your sentiment at this point in time.
I truly hope the sight has not been lost on another unseen shore, within the tides of "super steel", because what I have put this Mule through so far has shown me that, although being a low alloyed basic stainless steel, AEB-L is undoubtedly a super steel.
I'll eagerly await that High Performance Delica in AEB-L, as long as it's this well treated. I'll cast my vote now to ask for the addition of AEB-L across the factories. I'd love to see a run in the Seki standards and Golden models.
Thanks again sal, Shawn and I look forward to using these Mules I've picked up for years to come.
So without further ado, here's the follow up sharpening, usage and maintenance (thus far).
Upon my finishing of the reprofile that I had undertaken, the knife still needed an actual edge applied. Considering that I utilized a polished edge for my initial sharpening of this Mule, I wanted a coarser edge this round. I decided to continue down the path in using Venev Diamond Stones to apex the knife at their 400 grit rated stone. Venev uses the FEPA grit rating system, so to those unfamiliar, their 400 grit stone roughly translates to the more commonly known JIS (Japanese Waterstone) grit rating of roughly 700 grit, or roughly 17 micron. I'm assuming due to the nature of the Venev being a bit slower of a cutting stone, being diamond bonded, versus diamond plated (think DMT), along with the hardness of this Mule sample, it took a bit more effort to reach a clean, apexed edge, than what I would have thought, being such a low alloyed steel. For reference, I feel like Seki's K390 takes less time to form a burr, however, I find that this treatment of AEB-L will shed the burr and form a cleaner apex, much easier.
The resulting edge was rife with unfiltered, biting aggression. I wanted to squeeze as much as I could out of this sharpening, so I was off to the strop; Stroppy Stuff: 4 micron, followed by 1 micron, on leather. This allowed some polish to reduce a bit of the bite and add a dimension of refinement. I am extremely pleased with this simple sharpening progression. The knife was too sharp to catch or whittle hairs and instead would blow through them like the Big Bad Wolf blowing poor little piggy's house down. It might not be a beauty pageant winner, but I'll take runner-up any day with assets like that:
Now, this is running a lightly convex edge with the edge geometry nice and thin:
I have no tools to get an accurate reading on number specifics for edge thinness, or angle, so I will let the photos tell their tale.
So, what is all of this worth without some testing?
Not much.
I started in immediately on dismembering a medium sized carboard box. This was rather thick cardboard and although it was relatively clean, it was still highly abrasive and gunked up the knife with residue, cutting through tape and labels. I noticed promptly that whilst the initially sharpened polished edge preferred push cutting motions, this less refined edge preferred slicing motions. I was able to slice 130 cuts out of that carboard box:
After this cutting, the heel-half of the knife displayed a noticed reduction in sharpness when feeling the edge with the three-finger sharpness method. The tip-half would still catch the finger pads and whilst the heel-half took a bit more pressure, it too would still bite the finger pads.
After this I swiftly unleashed on a tennis ball canister. The tube itself is a thinner plastic, reminiscent to clamshell packaging, although a bit thinner and a bit less tough. I made vertical cuts around the diameter of the tube, making sure to use force and torquing cuts once reaching the base of the canister, putting as much pressure out and onto the tip of the knife as I could. I then proceeded to cut the thin vertical strips into little "chips":
This equaled out to 55 total cuts into the plastic canister. At this point, the knife had a noticeable dullness across the length of the apex, however, to my surprise, would still bite the finger pads when enough pressure was applied (*I do not recommend applying pressure whilst doing this unless you are comfortable with the three-finger sharpness edge testing method and do not inquire anyone to do so, even if they are). I left the knife in its gunked up glory and decided to test the edge on standard fare printer paper, of which it still sliced with ease:
Here are a few shots of the knife in its condition after that point:
Zero reflective light to the apex (hard to capture in photographs, however, there was zero edge damage, even after this cutting, with this geometry):
Tip caught a hair of a bend (again, was hard to capture clearly):
So, after all of this cutting, I decided it was time to wipe down the blade with alcohol and see what a little stropping would do to the edge. I hit the 4 micron and 1 micron progression again, totaling no more than two clock minutes and this was the outcome of that little effort:
Back to catching and splitting hairs.
To say that I was impressed with the edge thus far is an understatement, however, I had to hit the gas pedal again and this is technically where I get into the part 3 of this post, as this extra bit of cutting after the edge was stropped was conducted over two separate days, when the time became available.
I took very few photos of this additional usage, however, I will detail the events.
After attaining hair splitting sharpness after that initial round of cutting, I was eager to see what else I could test this edge on. I had a 12" x 3" piece of unused flesh-side (suede) leather that was peeled from a strop, ~2mm thick. I split that length wise into as many pieces as I could. There was glue residue on one side and some of the cuts would steer, as the leather was supple and I was doing the cutting "free hanging" (held in midair). I did not photograph this and I would guesstimate on the conservative side that I made at least 10 and up to 20 cuts out of this leather.
After setting a few additional items aside to test the edge on, I went ahead and cut a standard magazine catalogue into 6 pieces at its full thickness. I intentionally avoided the staples as I had additional materials to cut. I then went ahead and sliced a FedEx bubble mailer package down to size and lastly butchered up yet another medium sized cardboard box, which accounted for another 80 cuts into cardboard.
The residue left over after this cutting was much more difficult to remove this time, however it was certain that the edge was yet again feeling quite dull. This time there were no finger pads to be caught when testing the three-finger method. The entire apex of the knife looked to be blunted and of which I initially had thought so, yet, it was still slicing printer paper, with minimal hang-ups. There was no perceptible edge damage per the naked eyes. This makes me wonder if what was observed was actually just extra resilient residue from the packaging cut and that the apex may have been in better shape than I thought I had observed, however, for the testing's sake, I'll err on my initial feeling of observation that the apex was indeed thoroughly blunted.
Once again, I hit the strop. You know the drill by now; Stroppy Stuff: 4 micron, 1 micron, leather. The results left me once again absolutely gobsmacked. The knife will once again cleanly slice printer paper without hang-up, back to a crisp, non-reflective, finger pad biting apex. This level of performance is absolutely mind-blowing, IMO. I mean, I wasn't expecting a slouch, but I was not expecting to be absolutely this overjoyed, either.
At this point, I did my best to capture the edge in these two photos:
I truly think this Mule is something special and for those who actually want a Mule to test more than just edge retention, please, do yourselves a favor and pick one up to put some work in on. I'm absolutely as stunned to see zero usage reports back from anyone at this point, even in sharpening. Any and all feedback has been in regards to the factory edge grinds. I hope, Shawn, that you are incorrect in your assessment of this being just "another collectable steel with letters and numbers", however, I have to agree with your sentiment at this point in time.
I truly hope the sight has not been lost on another unseen shore, within the tides of "super steel", because what I have put this Mule through so far has shown me that, although being a low alloyed basic stainless steel, AEB-L is undoubtedly a super steel.
I'll eagerly await that High Performance Delica in AEB-L, as long as it's this well treated. I'll cast my vote now to ask for the addition of AEB-L across the factories. I'd love to see a run in the Seki standards and Golden models.
Thanks again sal, Shawn and I look forward to using these Mules I've picked up for years to come.
Make Knife Grinds Thin Again.
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Finally got a cardboard box without too much ink, glue, labels for the compost. Was pretty impressed with this morning's box so first to sharpen the AEB-L...
Sharpening
No way to measure the angle so used the sharpie method. Came off with pretty easy work on the medium BenchStone. Maybe 5-10 minutes total. The last bit near the base ( plunge line?) required a little extra attention to sharpen. Not sure if it was just me or if it had anything to do with some comments in the other thread about the plunge grind.
Got it all worked out in another couple of minutes with the fine ceramic triangle. Rough leather strop with green compound (0.5 micron, supposedly) to polish it up a bit. Cutting paper was a breeze.
Here are some pics under the loupe Sal had suggested getting:
Box
Here was the rating of the box if you're curious. Hopefully the local coffee roaster will send the same box next time or else I'll have to wait to try this again!
Time to cut!
Box got broken down into large pieces. Took a large piece and cut long strokes to make one inch strips with the grain. Then cut the strips down into squares. Repeat until piece was done and on to the next piece.
100 strokes: easy peasy, still tuned on paper
175: getting tired, very minor resistance on paper
250: noticeable decline in form/performance, still cutting paper but with hiccups
300: time to resharpen but still cardboard left, not so smooth paper strokes
350:I'm tired, jagged paper cutting
Here are loupe pics at this point:
Homestretch
Before my last piece of cardboard I decided to strop with compound to get it back to paper whisperer edge. Maybe 3-4 minutes of work. Final 25 cuts were pretty on par with the initial ones. Here's the final pile.
Thumb is still a bit numb so I guess I need to work on my form. Still, it was a fun little test. Thanks for reading and thanks Spyderco team for the AEB-L mule!
Sharpening
No way to measure the angle so used the sharpie method. Came off with pretty easy work on the medium BenchStone. Maybe 5-10 minutes total. The last bit near the base ( plunge line?) required a little extra attention to sharpen. Not sure if it was just me or if it had anything to do with some comments in the other thread about the plunge grind.
Got it all worked out in another couple of minutes with the fine ceramic triangle. Rough leather strop with green compound (0.5 micron, supposedly) to polish it up a bit. Cutting paper was a breeze.
Here are some pics under the loupe Sal had suggested getting:
Box
Here was the rating of the box if you're curious. Hopefully the local coffee roaster will send the same box next time or else I'll have to wait to try this again!
Time to cut!
Box got broken down into large pieces. Took a large piece and cut long strokes to make one inch strips with the grain. Then cut the strips down into squares. Repeat until piece was done and on to the next piece.
100 strokes: easy peasy, still tuned on paper
175: getting tired, very minor resistance on paper
250: noticeable decline in form/performance, still cutting paper but with hiccups
300: time to resharpen but still cardboard left, not so smooth paper strokes
350:I'm tired, jagged paper cutting
Here are loupe pics at this point:
Homestretch
Before my last piece of cardboard I decided to strop with compound to get it back to paper whisperer edge. Maybe 3-4 minutes of work. Final 25 cuts were pretty on par with the initial ones. Here's the final pile.
Thumb is still a bit numb so I guess I need to work on my form. Still, it was a fun little test. Thanks for reading and thanks Spyderco team for the AEB-L mule!
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Nice discussion so far. I just received my AEB-L Mule and Halpern thin micarta scales. This blade came so razor sharp, I wont need to been sharpening it anytime soon. I am amazed how sharp it came. Usually my past Mules have came to me with soft, barely sharpened edges. Can't wait to try sharpening at some point. Looks beautiful though.
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
I'll put in my 2 cents. I have sharpened both the M398 and AEBL Mules (the only 2 I have currently). They both sharpened very easily and nothing went wrong on either. The AEBL was very clean and quick with its sharpening. Took me a total from start to finish about 10 minutes, which I might add I put to a 14 degree edge on each side. I went 140 Atoma, DMT Coarse then to DMT Fine (300/600 roughly) then on a 5 micron strop. It blazed through anything I could slice with it. I am still using it as we speak after 2 weeks and it has not needed a strop. This is truly a nice job on the steel. We will see how the long term review goes but, I think this steel is excellent in all facets. To me it is like 14C28N or 12C27. Very clean very tough.
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Your convex looks good on there!
I haven’t had a chance to reprofile mine yet but considered testing out the Hapstone convex attachment.
What I can say so far is that this blade gets incredibly sharp very easily. Out of the box it is as sticky as any knife I’ve received. Three finger test and your fingers won’t move without cutting yourself. I’ve touched it up a couple of times so far and it simply does not care about the quality of abrasive used. My Spyderco Fine stone worked great, more surprising was that a cheap no-name ceramic rod that I’ve had mixed results with was just as effective. A trait that I have really enjoyed so far is the biting aggression that lasts even as the edge begins to wear. You lose some smoothness in slicing but the edge stays sticky.
I was a little skeptical about AEB-L before using it. The literature sells 14c28n as an upgrade, yet knives of that steel are more readily available and much cheaper than the AEB-L blades out there. In my experience with mass produced 14c28n, it is not in the same league as this and I think that is probably testament to the quality of heat treatment on this Mule. It may be an odd comparison but this blade steel reminds me of the Aogami Super on my Kohetsu Santoku in use. Really awesome considering how stainless and tough it is reported to be.
I haven’t had a chance to reprofile mine yet but considered testing out the Hapstone convex attachment.
What I can say so far is that this blade gets incredibly sharp very easily. Out of the box it is as sticky as any knife I’ve received. Three finger test and your fingers won’t move without cutting yourself. I’ve touched it up a couple of times so far and it simply does not care about the quality of abrasive used. My Spyderco Fine stone worked great, more surprising was that a cheap no-name ceramic rod that I’ve had mixed results with was just as effective. A trait that I have really enjoyed so far is the biting aggression that lasts even as the edge begins to wear. You lose some smoothness in slicing but the edge stays sticky.
I was a little skeptical about AEB-L before using it. The literature sells 14c28n as an upgrade, yet knives of that steel are more readily available and much cheaper than the AEB-L blades out there. In my experience with mass produced 14c28n, it is not in the same league as this and I think that is probably testament to the quality of heat treatment on this Mule. It may be an odd comparison but this blade steel reminds me of the Aogami Super on my Kohetsu Santoku in use. Really awesome considering how stainless and tough it is reported to be.
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Those are the scales I'm thinking I need for my Mule's that need them. A couple things that give me pause :jmj3esq wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:19 amNice discussion so far. I just received my AEB-L Mule and Halpern thin micarta scales. This blade came so razor sharp, I wont need to been sharpening it anytime soon. I am amazed how sharp it came. Usually my past Mules have came to me with soft, barely sharpened edges. Can't wait to try sharpening at some point. Looks beautiful though.
How well do those thin micarta scales fit the Spyderco Leather Mule Sheath?
Are they well chamfered to reduce hotspots?
Would you be able to take a pic of that knife looking from the spine down to help me get a sense for how thick they make the knife?
Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
These Halpern scales fit it the Spyderco leather sheath perfectly as that is how I store my knife. It should be noted they also fit the Spyderco Bolteron sheith perfectly as well. The scales are also reasonably priced compared to other scales I have purchased through Etsy. They are chamfered around the edges. I feel no hot spots. They are real smooth to the touch and almost have a velvety finish as a lot of the "cloth" is exposed om these Micarta scales. The thickness of the scales on this blade is 10mm. The scales appear to be just a bit thicker than the spine of the blade. It is a fairly thin handle, but I prefer that. Here's your pics:
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Re: MT37P - AEB-L Mule Team Performance Thread
Nice looking set up good color choices.jmj3esq wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 3:49 amThese Halpern scales fit it the Spyderco leather sheath perfectly as that is how I store my knife. It should be noted they also fit the Spyderco Bolteron sheith perfectly as well. The scales are also reasonably priced compared to other scales I have purchased through Etsy. They are chamfered around the edges. I feel no hot spots. They are real smooth to the touch and almost have a velvety finish as a lot of the "cloth" is exposed om these Micarta scales. The thickness of the scales on this blade is 10mm. The scales appear to be just a bit thicker than the spine of the blade. It is a fairly thin handle, but I prefer that. Here's your pics:
Bumping the Aeb-L Mule performance up too. Nice test work, "weeping minora."
Spyderco: Tenacious G10, Waterway, Para 3 Spy27, Pacific Salt H1, Catcherman, In the Mule Team Stable(Z-Max, Z-Wear, S45VN, Magnacut, SRS13/SUS405, M398, Aeb-l, 15v)