Spyderco Forums

Posted: **Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:20 pm**

sal wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:13 pm
I would appreciate that you refrain from promoting competitive brands on our forum. They probably have their own forum. Your kind understanding and cooperation is appreciated.

sal

This was stated pretty clearly by Sal previously in this thread. We should respect it.

Some other time it would be fun to see what non-Spyderco knives Sal owns/likes. I assume he must have some other knives.

Posted: **Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:58 pm**

Hi Ugaarguy,

Ya know, I thought about this thread quite a bit over the past week or so. I can understand being concerned over raising prices. I too am concerned. But it's always possible to make anything cheaper. You start with the top and then you suck out quality and/or services until you've got the cheapest price. So, no, I probably am not interested in the comparisons.

If Zhyla likes to buy Chinese knives because of Budget, or whatever his reasons might be, he should buy them. There's a lot of good makers in China, feeding their families, and he's still enjoying knives. I don't think that he's going to persuade me to change my business model. If you like Cold Steel, you should get what you like. I've known Lynn for over 40 years. He's always made good knives.

We offer our products and services for a price that we think is fair, especially since we do so many things, other than sell knives. If a model can't hold it's own with sales, then it's discontinued, and we'll try to create a new interesting model. We listen to our customers, and we've learned a lot from this thread, for which I thank you.

My wife, Gail, says; "When you buy a Spyderco knife, you are not buying a knife, you are investing in an American company".

sal

Posted: **Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:16 pm**

I know nobody likes to pay more and I certainly appreciate your openness on the topic Sal, it must be difficult to keep prices competitive but still deliver quality.
In the end, I trust Spydercos heat treat over other companies and I see that they continually strive to improve with their steels. That alone is worth the cost to me.

Posted: **Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:57 pm**

Funny as I was buying a set of callipers the other day and I thought of this thread.
Prices ranged from $20 to $100 and several makers with products made in several countries.
Paid near the top of the price for three reasons
Company I trust
Quality I trust
Innovative design.

Spyderco has the same 3 attributes and is why I have so many in different steels and designs.

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:27 am**

Im the self proclaimed OG anti MAP King coming out of retirement just to say that MAP has definitely made me a lot more selective. Reading this thread briefly, I see that people have wised up and wait for the big sales, buy second hand, etc.

I spent nearly a decade batting for Spyderco in the forums. Those new to the hobby and other brands’ fanboys alike sometimes needed educating and fact checking. Was not appreciated for it (which was ok) and /butwhen I did disagree with something like sprint run allotments or MAP, I was attacked for it by the same apologists that I thought were on my team.

I still trust in the Glessers but the knife industry like every other is cutthroat. If the market will bear it, the prices will go up. Vote with your wallets.

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:11 pm**

OK I’m clueless what does MAP mean?

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:42 pm**

Minimum Advertised Price, the lowest price a retailer can advertise a knife for.

Posted: **Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:40 am**

sal wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:58 pm
Hi Ugaarguy,

Ya know, I thought about this thread quite a bit over the past week or so. I can understand being concerned over raising prices. I too am concerned. But it's always possible to make anything cheaper. You start with the top and then you suck out quality and/or services until you've got the cheapest price. So, no, I probably am not interested in the comparisons.

If Zhyla likes to buy Chinese knives because of Budget, or whatever his reasons might be, he should buy them. There's a lot of good makers in China, feeding their families, and he's still enjoying knives. I don't think that he's going to persuade me to change my business model. If you like Cold Steel, you should get what you like. I've known Lynn for over 40 years. He's always made good knives.

We offer our products and services for a price that we think is fair, especially since we do so many things, other than sell knives. If a model can't hold it's own with sales, then it's discontinued, and we'll try to create a new interesting model. We listen to our customers, and we've learned a lot from this thread, for which I thank you.

My wife, Gail, says; "When you buy a Spyderco knife, you are not buying a knife, you are investing in an American company".

sal

Sal, you personally help me to justify a slightly price. Caring about your employees also helps to justify a higher price. Heck, I just bought an S30V Pink Dragonfly knowing that I was going to spend at least an extra 75% on aftermarket scales.

I suppose there is a sort of internal algorithm or justification equation. Those factors can go a long way towards tipping me over. Sometimes though, the price threshold is just too high. The Enuff 2 is a great example. It already felt radically overpriced at its debut price but now, it's $180 for VG-10 and FRN?!?

Since sadly failing to justify an Enuff 2, I picked up two EDC fixed blades for exactly $180. One runs S90V and G10. The other runs Nitro-V and textured Micarta. They both have excellent sheaths. Sure, they were made in China but getting both of those for the price of one overseas-made knife in VG-10 and FRN is pretty brutal. Meanwhile, you can get US-made fixed blades in super steels for $180 and I can think of a few options in MagnaCut under $200.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:32 am**

zhyla wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:41 pm

sal wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:21 pm
Could you elaborate more on that? What are the other companies of which you speak and what are they doing?

sal
This question wasn't directed at me but I will comment. Here is one of my purchases this week, a Vosteed Nightshade. This is a $70 knife with Nitro-V steel, liner lock, bearings, skeletonized liners, and micarta scales.

I'm sending it back because it's actually the wrong version (I ordered the thumbhole version). I don't care for the blackwash but otherwise this knife is really, really impressive. The edge is unbelievably sharp. 0.016" behind the edge. The rough micarta feels great. The scales are contoured, not just flat slabs. The clip is unexciting but works well. Ergos are good. Action is amazing.

The thumbstud version is IMO dangerous. The blade flies out once you overcome the detente and your thumb can trail behind it. Is this why Spyderco doesn't do a lot of knives on bearings?

There has been a lot of talk in this thread about how Spyderco designs have some quality (soul, charisma) and the stuff we see from competitors don't. In general I agree with this intangible. But this knife has soul IMO. It's supposed to channel the famous Shilin Cutter knives from a certain part of China.

Anyway, look at that knife and think: this is what the Astute or Tenacious are up against.

I like that design. It resembles the Lum knives Spyderco used to make. I might get one.

China makes good stuff. I think the whole demonizing of China was a bad idea. If Spyderco made this knife in Taiwan it would have a $400 msrp and then the retailers would gouge you to death to maybe $300 with MAP manipulation.

I bought a ton of Spydercos in 2022 but I noticed that I'm only carrying a good old s30v pm2. I feel like I can't use the others because I bought them so low, like a $127 Bradley 2, $156 15v Manix, or $175 pm2 Maxamet, and their prices are so high now and will continue increasing. It's like these types became investments and I just can't use them. Anyone else feel like this? I'm value trapped by my own knives because the inflation is so bad.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:55 pm**

I wonder whether the tools our forbears had to buy were any cheaper relative to their incomes?

Has anyone got an old Sears catalogue, to compare?

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2024 2:33 pm**

ChrisinHove wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:55 pm
I wonder whether the tools our forbears had to buy were any cheaper relative to their incomes?

Has anyone got an old Sears catalogue, to compare?

I'm old, so maybe I can help:

The first Buck 110 I bought was around $30, and would have been in the late '00s or early 2010s. It seemed expensive to me at the time.

The last 110 I bought was in 2017 and was $40. I didn't give it a second thought.

It now costs $65.

A simple inflation calculation says that the $30 I spent in 2010 should have been $33.72 in 2017, and should be $42.69 today.

Inflation, clearly, does not tell the whole story. And if I had to replace my 110 today for 65 bucks I'd still happily pay it.

Sal has done a great job of giving insight into the complexities of the marketplace, and I everywhere I look I see confirmation of those insights. Value, at the end of the day, will always be somewhat subjective.

Posted: **Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:30 pm**

Erich wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:32 am
I bought a ton of Spydercos in 2022 but I noticed that I'm only carrying a good old s30v pm2. I feel like I can't use the others because I bought them so low, like a $127 Bradley 2, $156 15v Manix, or $175 pm2 Maxamet, and their prices are so high now and will continue increasing. It's like these types became investments and I just can't use them. Anyone else feel like this? I'm value trapped by my own knives because the inflation is so bad.

It sounds like you're looking at it from a resale or replacement value perspective - in which case you're probably correct.

Similarly to you, I have a Bradley 2 for which I paid $128 shipped according to the Knifeworks receipt from 2015. I look at that knife and still think "dang, what a good value for an awesome user" and it happily goes in my pocket.

And there's a bunch of NIB PM2s buried in the back of one of my drawers, but it's not for fear of the value. I'm just still beating on my blue M390 PM2 from the original BBS run, and I haven't done anything bad enough to it to need any of my "backups."

Knife money is all sunk cost for me, not an investment. Even stuff I've kept NIB, I don't expect I'll be able to get my money back out of it after a couple years as hype comes and goes and trends shift and more models come out so what was once a rare feature is now common. If I'm worrying about it for the resale value, I probably couldn't afford it in the first place.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:03 am**

Erich wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:32 am

zhyla wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:41 pm

sal wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:21 pm

.....I bought a ton of Spydercos in 2022 but I noticed that I'm only carrying a good old s30v pm2. I feel like I can't use the others because I bought them so low, like a $127 Bradley 2, $156 15v Manix, or $175 pm2 Maxamet, and their prices are so high now and will continue increasing. It's like these types became investments and I just can't use them. Anyone else feel like this? I'm value trapped by my own knives because the inflation is so bad.

Not meaning to critizise you by any means (who am I to tell people how to enjoy their knives?), but 100 % no, I don´t feel like that.

I could never keep a Spydie that I don´t actually use a lot (exception: I kept a nib backup for my discontinued VG10 Stretch 1 for some time, but not even that anymore these days).

Actually, in a way the more special, unique, expensive it is, the more I like to use and experience it, see how, how fast and in which ways it "wears in", shows signs of use and so on.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:23 pm**

Wartstein wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:03 am

Erich wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:32 am

zhyla wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:41 pm

sal wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:21 pm

.....I bought a ton of Spydercos in 2022 but I noticed that I'm only carrying a good old s30v pm2. I feel like I can't use the others because I bought them so low, like a $127 Bradley 2, $156 15v Manix, or $175 pm2 Maxamet, and their prices are so high now and will continue increasing. It's like these types became investments and I just can't use them. Anyone else feel like this? I'm value trapped by my own knives because the inflation is so bad.
Not meaning to critizise you by any means (who am I to tell people how to enjoy their knives?), but 100 % no, I don´t feel like that.

I could never keep a Spydie that I don´t actually use a lot (exception: I kept a nib backup for my discontinued VG10 Stretch 1 for some time, but not even that anymore these days).

Actually, in a way the more special, unique, expensive it is, the more I like to use and experience it, see how, how fast and in which ways it "wears in", shows signs of use and so on.

You're a good man! I feel encouraged to break out the Maxamet...

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:53 pm**

Erich wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:32 am

zhyla wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 27, 2024 9:41 pm

sal wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 27, 2024 6:21 pm
Could you elaborate more on that? What are the other companies of which you speak and what are they doing?

sal
This question wasn't directed at me but I will comment. Here is one of my purchases this week, a Vosteed Nightshade. This is a $70 knife with Nitro-V steel, liner lock, bearings, skeletonized liners, and micarta scales.

I'm sending it back because it's actually the wrong version (I ordered the thumbhole version). I don't care for the blackwash but otherwise this knife is really, really impressive. The edge is unbelievably sharp. 0.016" behind the edge. The rough micarta feels great. The scales are contoured, not just flat slabs. The clip is unexciting but works well. Ergos are good. Action is amazing.

The thumbstud version is IMO dangerous. The blade flies out once you overcome the detente and your thumb can trail behind it. Is this why Spyderco doesn't do a lot of knives on bearings?

There has been a lot of talk in this thread about how Spyderco designs have some quality (soul, charisma) and the stuff we see from competitors don't. In general I agree with this intangible. But this knife has soul IMO. It's supposed to channel the famous Shilin Cutter knives from a certain part of China.

Anyway, look at that knife and think: this is what the Astute or Tenacious are up against.
I like that design. It resembles the Lum knives Spyderco used to make. I might get one.

China makes good stuff. I think the whole demonizing of China was a bad idea. If Spyderco made this knife in Taiwan it would have a $400 msrp and then the retailers would gouge you to death to maybe $300 with MAP manipulation.

I bought a ton of Spydercos in 2022 but I noticed that I'm only carrying a good old s30v pm2. I feel like I can't use the others because I bought them so low, like a $127 Bradley 2, $156 15v Manix, or $175 pm2 Maxamet, and their prices are so high now and will continue increasing. It's like these types became investments and I just can't use them. Anyone else feel like this? I'm value trapped by my own knives because the inflation is so bad.

I dont feel like that at all. My #1 edc is my sprint run pm3 with cf and s90v. I didn't buy it not to use it. It's great steel and doesn't need to be babied. Holds a edge extreme well. Would be crazy not to use it. I guess I just dont covet material things. I view knives, guns, vehicles etc... as tools.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:13 pm**

I guess we could lower our prices; We could pay our crew less, take away their benefits, drop CQI, eliminate the Mule team project, stop supporting our Troops, Law enforcement, First Responders, our community. Stop printing catalogs, use cheaper materials and reduce our tolerances. Eliminate bonus's, Make all of our products in China, blow off our Research & Development, Stop experimenting with special steels, Drop the Forums, change our name to "No longer Spyderco"........................................................For what?

sal

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:35 pm**

Erich wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 15, 2024 10:32 am

I like that design. It resembles the Lum knives Spyderco used to make. I might get one.

China makes good stuff. I think the whole demonizing of China was a bad idea. If Spyderco made this knife in Taiwan it would have a $400 msrp and then the retailers would gouge you to death to maybe $300 with MAP manipulation.

I bought a ton of Spydercos in 2022 but I noticed that I'm only carrying a good old s30v pm2. I feel like I can't use the others because I bought them so low, like a $127 Bradley 2, $156 15v Manix, or $175 pm2 Maxamet, and their prices are so high now and will continue increasing. It's like these types became investments and I just can't use them. Anyone else feel like this? I'm value trapped by my own knives because the inflation is so bad.

No. I bought a knife because I like it and want to use it. If I bought a knife for 175 and it is now worth 300 would have no relevance. The ability to make 125 is rather insignificant. It was not an investment...unless i bought a 1000 of them. And then again, i would not be concerned about using one of them

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:29 pm**

sal wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:13 pm
I guess we could lower our prices; We could pay our crew less, take away their benefits, drop CQI, eliminate the Mule team project, stop supporting our Troops, Law enforcement, First Responders, our community. Stop printing catalogs, use cheaper materials and reduce our tolerances. Eliminate bonus's, Make all of our products in China, blow off our Research & Development, Stop experimenting with special steels, Drop the Forums, change our name to "No longer Spyderco"........................................................For what?

sal

There you go people, capiche?

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:31 pm**

CDEP wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 15, 2024 2:33 pm

The first Buck 110 I bought was around $30, and would have been in the late '00s or early 2010s. It seemed expensive to me at the time.

The last 110 I bought was in 2017 and was $40. I didn't give it a second thought.

It now costs $65.

I bought a Buck 110 in 1976. My memory is fuzzy but I think it cost around $30. Today's price is quite a bargain.

Posted: **Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:38 pm**

I paid $16 for my Buck 110. I Bought it when they first came out. Most thought I was nuts for paying that much for a knife. I guess that shows how old I am. Buck is a good American company. Still family owned. We're proud to have them as competition.

sal

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