Dragonfly vs. Lil' Native

[Wartstein]

Nah. You'd like the Dragonfly better. It is a lot more slicey and it weighs nothing. On some of your adventures you would have it and not even know you did until you needed it.

Well, Doc, I was talking about the announced Lil Native Lightweight vs Dfly...

As said: The G10 Lil Native has literally nothing that could make me choose it over either Dfly or Chap. Heavier than both, most likely bulkier carry, fat blade for such a small knife, not much cutting edge for that bulk and weight....

But the Lil Native LW has the same thin stock as the Dfly, weighs not that much more (and clearly less than a Chap), offers a bit more cutting edge than the Dfly and has a humpless spine

[zhyla]

Price aside, I don’t think there’s any scenario where a Chaparral isn’t always superior to the Dragonfly. Better ergos, better blade, and super compact. Where the Dragonfly has always been a mini knife in a mini package the Chaparral is a full size knife in what seems as small as a Dragonfly package.

It’s not remotely cheap ($125) but even at that price I think it’s the best knife Spyderco makes.

The Lil Native FRN (with back lock) is $120. I am imagining that as being just a small Native FRN and that’s not a bad thing but I really doubt it will out-class the Chaparral.

[Wartstein]

Price aside, I don’t think there’s any scenario where a Chaparral isn’t always superior to the Dragonfly. Better ergos, better blade, and super compact. Where the Dragonfly has always been a mini knife in a mini package the Chaparral is a full size knife in what seems as small as a Dragonfly package.

It’s not remotely cheap ($125) but even at that price I think it’s the best knife Spyderco makes.

The Lil Native FRN (with back lock) is $120. I am imagining that as being just a small Native FRN and that’s not a bad thing but I really doubt it will out-class the Chaparral.

As far as I can weigh in (never had a Lil Native, could just handle a Dfly, but have a lot of experience with the Chap): I too think that neither Dfly, nor Lil Native LW and let alone the G10 Lil Native can even challenge the Chap, at least for me.

But both Dfly and Lil Native LW (!) have the light weight going for them, compared to the Chap, if someone is specifically looking at that aspect (and the Dfly certainly also an even smaller carry than the Chap).

But if I could have only one out of the four (Dfly, G10 Lil Native, Lil Native LW, Chaparral FRN):
Chap, any day of the week.

[ZrowsN1s]

I don't know why but the chap has never appealed to me. Where as I've got 10 Dragonflys and 4 lil natives.

Visually I find the Dragonfly a more appealing design than the chap. I always liked it even before I owned any Spyderco's. It looks interesting to me, the chap seems kind of plain. Refined and elegant vanilla.

Vs. The Lil Native I like the flat spine of the lil Native. Visually I like the Native more, and I suspect ergonomically as well. While it won't outclass it as a gentleman's knife, it is more of a stout workhorse than the thinner more elegant chap.

You guys give a strong endorsement though. Maybe I'll give the chap a shot sometime.

[Tristan_david2001]

Nothings topped the spyderco kopa for a spyderco folder in this size range,

[Ryder]

It would be good if we could include our usage scenarios as that would illuminate the sense that a choice makes. Some here really get the Dragonfly. It is the invisible knife that one never notices in pocket but will greatly outperform its size. This is highly sought in the hiking community especially in the very steep, rocky terrain that we negotiate several times a week for our wilderness. The Dragonfly rules far above the popular SAK Classic and its ilk. I have three Chaparrals and after a couple weeks break in they are as close to a high tolerance, smooth cushion that I’ve found in a production knife in that price range. I still like the Dragonfly ergos and the incredible ultralight weight. I would never tell someone what to take on their own hike but those who value ultralight weight and want a real knife are flocking to the Dragonfly. I never would have believed this knife until I tried it in the surreal K390. Haven’t carried anything else for more than a year when rucksacking the wilderness here with the necessary essentials. No, it doesn’t possess the fit and finish nor the walk and talk of a Chaparral but it’s a highly designed Spyderco that excels as an ultralight hiking tool. However I’d not look down on anyone carrying just about any Spyderco or most other sensible blades for the same endeavors. I’ve carried a plethora of blades in my time.

[austrian_spyder_fan]

I have some Lil Natives and i like them.
But more as a kind of gentleman folder, the DFY fits my hand better although it's smaller.
Also the Chap fits better for me.
I'm looking forward to the Lil Native LW.

I still hope Sal does the DFY XL for us sometime.

ASF

[Tristan_david2001]

He already has, it’s called the calypso

[Wartstein]

It would be good if we could include our usage scenarios as that would illuminate the sense that a choice makes. Some here really get the Dragonfly. It is the invisible knife that one never notices in pocket but will greatly outperform its size. This is highly sought in the hiking community especially in the very steep, rocky terrain that we negotiate several times a week for our wilderness. The Dragonfly rules far above the popular SAK Classic and its ilk. I have three Chaparrals and after a couple weeks break in they are as close to a high tolerance, smooth cushion that I’ve found in a production knife in that price range. I still like the Dragonfly ergos and the incredible ultralight weight. I would never tell someone what to take on their own hike but those who value ultralight weight and want a real knife are flocking to the Dragonfly. I never would have believed this knife until I tried it in the surreal K390. Haven’t carried anything else for more than a year when rucksacking the wilderness here with the necessary essentials. No, it doesn’t possess the fit and finish nor the walk and talk of a Chaparral but it’s a highly designed Spyderco that excels as an ultralight hiking tool. However I’d not look down on anyone carrying just about any Spyderco or most other sensible blades for the same endeavors. I’ve carried a plethora of blades in my time.

I can see that the Dfly must be an amazing ultralight option.. but honestly, your wording "those who value ultralight weight and want a real knife" rather brings the Salt 2 ffg to my mind.
Just me of course, but the Dfly would be just too small to be a "real knife" for what I use a blade for when hiking... the Salt 2 ffg weighs only 20 grams more (1.9 oz vs 1.2 oz Dfly (yes, relatively seen that is a substantial difference admittedly)), but offers a long, good "four finger" handle and about 40 % more edge...(Chap is clearly smaller, but still heavier and with less cutting edge than the Salt 2)

[Ryder]

I can see that the Dfly must be an amazing ultralight option.. but honestly, your wording "those who value ultralight weight and want a real knife" rather brings the Salt 2 ffg to my mind.
Just me of course, but the Dfly would be just too small to be a "real knife" for what I use a blade for when hiking... the Salt 2 ffg weighs only 20 grams more (1.9 oz vs 1.2 oz Dfly (yes, relatively seen that is a substantial difference admittedly)), but offers a long, good "four finger" handle and about 40 % more edge...(Chap is clearly smaller, but still heavier and with less cutting edge than the Salt 2)

I understand different hand sizes and perspectives but to help me understand more what do you normally use a blade for when hiking? Thanks if I recall correctly and correct me if I’m wrong, you are doing this in the Austrian mountains and forests which is going to be different from the canyons and mountains of the Sonoran desert where I am.

[aicolainen]

I have both (and the Chap LW).
TLDR: Dfly

..and for me it's not even close. I carry a Dfly every day, and it's been this way for years now. It's the knife that solved my EDC.
It's the way it balances light weight and small carry size with just enough grip area to get a full, secure grip and just enough blade to get work done, and for its size it's as strong as it needs to be.
It took me a while to realize how well it fits my needs. It was the first Spyderco I bought along with a 2 or 3 others, but for a long time I didn't connect with the design, and it collected dust in my drawer for years. Only after trying out a Manbug salt and getting used to carry a clipless knife did things start to snap into place.
I loved my Manbug salt, but it's a knife that does a few things ridiculously well, but it's not the best do-anything knife, and it especially fell short on some of the electrical stuff I do quite a lot of.
With the clip removed my good old Dfly proved to be almost indistinguishably as easy to carry as the MB and a much better allround knife.
But.. the way the MB salt was able to bite into material still made me feel something was lacking with my old Dfly.
Enter the wharncliffe dfly. This is where it all came together.


Honestly I've hardly ever carried my rex45 CL Lil'Native. I bought it while I still was somewhat of a "lock snob". And I had such high expectations of this being the perfect small compression lock, maybe what the Para 3 had failed to become for me.
But no. It carries weird. It's too chubby for its length/footprint and the blade stock and subsequent weight is just more than required for the size of knife.

I'm curious to try the L'N LW, it seems to solve the issues I have with the regular L'N, but curiosity may no longer be enough to justify purchases.. idk? It's nice that Spyderco is moving in that direction and I want to support it, but it doesn't seem to answer any missing needs for me.

Regarding the Chap, I agree with what's being said. It's a fantastic knife, objectively probably better than the Dfly, but the Dfly solves my EDC balance equation in a better way.

[tzirconia]

Price aside, I don’t think there’s any scenario where a Chaparral isn’t always superior to the Dragonfly. Better ergos, better blade, and super compact. Where the Dragonfly has always been a mini knife in a mini package the Chaparral is a full size knife in what seems as small as a Dragonfly package.

At one point I was trying to decide between a Dragonfly and a Chapparal and I went Dragonfly because it's available in Salt variants.

Someday I'd love to be able to try a Chapparal Salt or a Little Native LW Salt...

[Wartstein]

I have both (and the Chap LW).
TLDR: Dfly

..and for me it's not even close. I carry a Dfly every day, and it's been this way for years now. It's the knife that solved my EDC.
It's the way it balances light weight and small carry size with just enough grip area to get a full, secure grip and just enough blade to get work done, and for its size it's as strong as it needs to be.
It took me a while to realize how well it fits my needs. It was the first Spyderco I bought along with a 2 or 3 others, but for a long time I didn't connect with the design, and it collected dust in my drawer for years. Only after trying out a Manbug salt and getting used to carry a clipless knife did things start to snap into place.
I loved my Manbug salt, but it's a knife that does a few things ridiculously well, but it's not the best do-anything knife, and it especially fell short on some of the electrical stuff I do quite a lot of.
With the clip removed my good old Dfly proved to be almost indistinguishably as easy to carry as the MB and a much better allround knife.
But.. the way the MB salt was able to bite into material still made me feel something was lacking with my old Dfly.
Enter the wharncliffe dfly. This is where it all came together.


Honestly I've hardly ever carried my rex45 CL Lil'Native. I bought it while I still was somewhat of a "lock snob". And I had such high expectations of this being the perfect small compression lock, maybe what the Para 3 had failed to become for me.
But no. It carries weird. It's too chubby for its length/footprint and the blade stock and subsequent weight is just more than required for the size of knife.

I'm curious to try the L'N LW, it seems to solve the issues I have with the regular L'N, but curiosity may no longer be enough to justify purchases.. idk? It's nice that Spyderco is moving in that direction and I want to support it, but it doesn't seem to answer any missing needs for me.

Regarding the Chap, I agree with what's being said. It's a fantastic knife, objectively probably better than the Dfly, but the Dfly solves my EDC balance equation in a better way.

Very good write up and very good points!

I figure the Dfly is in a way as unique in Spydercos lineup as the Chap FRN is - but each in different aspects.

I have actually always been very tempted by the idea and concept behind the Dfly:
Lightest weight for the size and still an edge that can get many typical day to day cutting tasks done.
When it comes to strength (of the blade): Though I think I do use my folders pretty "hard", I never really actually read here for what small folder tasks people a need a blade thicker than 2.5 mm anyway...

But in my personal reality: As soon as I carry only one folder (and that´s what I do 99.9% of the time) a Dfly would be just too short for me, while it does not bother me in any way weight or size wise to carry something like a Salt 2 ffg with its longer, more versatile edge.
It was you though who pointed out to me that the short Dfly blade can actually have advantages for work in tight spaces, something I had overlooked myself for the longest time.
And if they ever bring out a Dfly in H2 and SE and a wharnie blade, this would certainly push me over the edge (and probably actually make me carry TWO knives at a time (one being that Dfly) much more often)

[Wartstein]

I understand different hand sizes and perspectives but to help me understand more what do you normally use a blade for when hiking? Thanks if I recall correctly and correct me if I’m wrong, you are doing this in the Austrian mountains and forests which is going to be different from the canyons and mountains of the Sonoran desert where I am.

True, this is where (unless I am abroad) my outdoor time takes place.

Actually, like I think many hikers and mountaineers, on many days outdoors I don´t use my folders that often, sometimes not at all, depending on what I am doing.

Where I prefer a longer blade:
- Food prep, fire starting (though normally just for small "cooking fires", rarely for larger "warming fires"), whittling or cutting poles, stuff like that.
- I also think in an emergency a longer blade comes in handy (making makeshift splints or crutches, shelters, cutting branches for insulating from the ground....)
- And: A longer edge stays sharp longer plus makes many cutting tasks more efficient..

That said: Could I get by with a Dfly on many / most days hiking and mountaineering? Yes, absolutely!
And if lightest weight in every single piece of gear was my goal, the Dfly would be an amazing option.
As it is, even if I pack very light, I make an exception for the still only 1.9 oz of the Salt 2 ffg

[aicolainen]

I figure the Dfly is in a way as unique in Spydercos lineup as the Chap FRN is - but each in different aspects.

Indeed. The Chap is one of my favorite Spyderco's. It's unique in some of the ways that really matter to me; a very slim and subdued carry (esp. the LW) that carries almost unnoticeably to yourself and others, good edge to handle ratio even with a choil, very solid build and cuts like a beast. I keep mine in my office in case I need something longer or less wharnie than my Dfly. It doesn't happen as often as I'd like to, but it's quite the privilege to have a chap as my office stash-/backup knife.

I have actually always been very tempted by the idea and concept behind the Dfly:
Lightest weight for the size and still an edge that can get many typical day to day cutting tasks done.
When it comes to strength (of the blade): Though I think I do use my folders pretty "hard", I never really actually read here for what small folder tasks people a need a blade thicker than 2.5 mm anyway...

Yup. For the size 2.5mm is more than enough. I probably wouldn't want it much thinner though. The wharnie is perfect for jamming under pallet straps and zip ties, and some of those can be rather hard to cut. Like I said: perfect balance :)

Full disclosure, I did snap the tip off of my DF2 Salt, but it was due to user error / non knife task

It was you though who pointed out to me that the short Dfly blade can actually have advantages for work in tight spaces, something I had overlooked myself for the longest time.
And if they ever bring out a Dfly in H2 and SE and a wharnie blade, this would certainly push me over the edge (and probably actually make me carry TWO knives at a time (one being that Dfly) much more often)

The ability to work in tight spaces is a big deal to me, but if it's something you have overlooked it may not be as relevant to you. If or when you do, you'd be hard pressed to find something better than a DF2. Especially for my hand size. Full four finger grip, no excess handle protruding and great tip/edge control/precision with index finger all the way up to the edge in regular grip or right behind the tip if I change my grip.

[aicolainen]

I understand different hand sizes and perspectives but to help me understand more what do you normally use a blade for when hiking? Thanks if I recall correctly and correct me if I’m wrong, you are doing this in the Austrian mountains and forests which is going to be different from the canyons and mountains of the Sonoran desert where I am.

Where I prefer a longer blade:
- Food prep, fire starting (though normally just for small "cooking fires", rarely for larger "warming fires"), whittling or cutting poles, stuff like that.
- I also think in an emergency a longer blade comes in handy (making makeshift splints or crutches, shelters, cutting branches for insulating from the ground....)
- And: A longer edge stays sharp longer plus makes many cutting tasks more efficient..

That said: Could I get by with a Dfly on many / most days hiking and mountaineering? Yes, absolutely!
And if lightest weight in every single piece of gear was my goal, the Dfly would be an amazing option.
As it is, even if I pack very light, I make an exception for the still only 1.9 oz of the Salt 2 ffg

As much as I like the DF2 in the weekday/workday/EDC role, I rarely carry a DF2 in other situations.
For hiking and outdoor it really comes down to what Wartstein touches on; for not a lot more weight I can get a knife that's more versatile for typical outdoor tasks.
Hiking can be a lot of things, but even if I'm just day hiking and not spending the night out, I'm very likely to prep meals outside, so the food prep aspect is mainly what pulls me toward a longer edge for hiking.

I also often combine my hikes with other activities like fishing, or if my kids/family comes along we will likely make a fire, carve wood, make even more food etc. It doesn't require a very big knife, I usually carry a Salt 2 FFG or N5 Salt, but a DF2 would definitively fall a bit short and leave me wanting for more.

I guess we're already on a tangent here so a little more couldn't hurt; If I know I'll be making a fire/do bushcraft-like tasks or some kind of realistic emergency needs to be accounted for (typically long solo hikes in desolate areas and cold/winter conditions) I'll bring a suitable fixed blade as well. But even when I have access to a fixed blade, which will typically be around 4", I'll still carry the same size folding knives as I'd normally do because they have better geometry for food prep, fish processing etc.

If I was truly optimizing my trail food with regards to weight and long miles, eating cold soak, freeze dried etc. I may reconsider my knife choice, but that's thru hike level prioritizing. I'm not into that (yet). The closest I get to that is a couple of times where I've done very fast and long sections between open self service mountain huts. For that I've carried either a Victorinox Sportsman or alox Bantam.

[jwbnyc]

Another vote for the Dragonfly as the best clipless pocket knife.

It sits perfectly at the bottom curve of a pocket, unnoticed until needed. It doesn’t have a tendency to find its way out of a pocket, either, the way some small knives will.

With medium- sized hands, a four-fingered grip is a reality, even behind the choil.

Of the six (turns out it’s seven) that I currently own, four go clipless in a back pocket when carried. The only ones that keep their clips are the Emersons and the Salt.

It’s also, for my money, the best looking Spyderco.

The K390’s never go out of rotation, are never tucked away in storage. I always have a DF on me, usually an Emerson, IWB, sometimes a Zome standard blade dropped in a back pocket.

The Lil’ Native, OTOH, has a solid grip, stout blade for its size, and strength as its main points. It does not disappear. The compression lock does not inspire confidence loose in pocket. Maybe the backlock is better in that regard.

I rarely carry the Lil’ Native. It comes out in regular rotation. The DF’s supersede regular rotation.

[DavidNM]

Out of curiosity has anyone grind/file down the point in the spine of a Dragonfly to make it more comfortable to carry? That is my only real gripe with it compared to the Lil’ Native.

[Steeltoez83]

I usually grab my urban lightweight over my dragonfly or lil native. If i had 2 pick 1 from the 2 listed options id go native.

[Ryder]

I understand different hand sizes and perspectives but to help me understand more what do you normally use a blade for when hiking? Thanks if I recall correctly and correct me if I’m wrong, you are doing this in the Austrian mountains and forests which is going to be different from the canyons and mountains of the Sonoran desert where I am.

True, this is where (unless I am abroad) my outdoor time takes place.

Actually, like I think many hikers and mountaineers, on many days outdoors I don´t use my folders that often, sometimes not at all, depending on what I am doing.

Where I prefer a longer blade:
- Food prep, fire starting (though normally just for small "cooking fires", rarely for larger "warming fires"), whittling or cutting poles, stuff like that.
- I also think in an emergency a longer blade comes in handy (making makeshift splints or crutches, shelters, cutting branches for insulating from the ground....)
- And: A longer edge stays sharp longer plus makes many cutting tasks more efficient..

That said: Could I get by with a Dfly on many / most days hiking and mountaineering? Yes, absolutely!
And if lightest weight in every single piece of gear was my goal, the Dfly would be an amazing option.
As it is, even if I pack very light, I make an exception for the still only 1.9 oz of the Salt 2 ffg

Thanks for the details. One point you make is important to my way of thinking too. One does have to give thought to what might be needed versus what is necessary every day. It hardly ever rains here but I take full rain gear even if the forecast is clear and sunny. We also take down insulation even in good weather so can stay warm and dry without a fire. For me a fire isn’t normally needed as a small Snow Peak Gigapower stove fits in the titanium mug I use along with a small fuel canister. However if something happens to the fuel or stove it might be necessary to make a small fire. For the most part I can do that without a knife but there are times of inclement weather where a knife is a very important fire making tool. However with the fire danger being high much of the time I don’t want to burn my wilderness down. lol

Today we spent five hours in a canyon, climbing up to a favorite spot, didn’t need the knife for food prep with a snack of blueberries, strawberries, pecans and chocolate to go with some fresh brewed tea. In the hotter months we bring foods that do need some slicing and a good knife is one of the 10 epEssentials. Some of the climbs are steep so any weight savings is wonderful and we always go fully equipped in this terrain. Today the Dragonfly made a fine object of photography in this rugged country.